Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[88Comrade2000]

11 hours ago, Burgold said:

Actually, I'd argue that Smith is getting one of the better pass blocking lines in the NFL. Some of that is dependent on recovery from injury, but the only real weak link is a free agent not expected back, but if we look at this line over the last three years... they can pass block really well.

True, but he does need some better reliable weapons to throw to.   Jury still out on Doctson. Maybe he lives up to be a 1st round pick, maybe he doesn't.  We probably need to sign or draft another WR.  Crowder is okay, but I wouldn't say he's a primary receiver.  I don't trust Reed to stay healthy.

 

 

Also, I see alot of people expects us to make the playoffs.   Even with the improvements we make this year, this team isn't going to crack the playoffs.  I would probably be saying the same thing, if Kirk was the QB.   That schedule is killer.  Alex may be veteran QB but even he's going  to need a little time adjust to Gruden and our players.  Is Alex the type of QB that makes players better?

[RWJ]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd love to take Lauletta but three things on that.

 

1.  I wonder if he falls that far.

2.  I learned from another on this board, his agent is McCartney, the same dude that Bruce doesn't supposedly get along with.

3.  If they have an agreement with Alex Smith's agent according to Cooley-Sheehan -- they aren't taking a QB in this draft.

 

With you on this, SIP.  Love to see us trade down in the 1st w/Buff, pick up an extra 2nd and then possibly trade down with our high 2nd and take a lower 2nd and 3rd round draft pick and select Lauleta in the 3rd or White in the 4th.  As deep as this draft is with QB's I'd like to see us draft one to sit and learn behind Smith.  For all we know his contract might only be for 3 years guaranteed.  Guess we have to wait until the trade is official before seeing the breakdown of the contract.

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I caught up with a Mike Jones segment from Sheehan-Cooley.  His points:

 

A.  The FO weren't all in on Kirk.  They put it on him some of the close loses this season.

B.   The combination of Colt and drafting a QB was considered -- but they elected not to do so because they were likely afraid that Colt would get hurt and the young QB wouldn't be ready to succeed right away.

C.  It's really really really important that they are successful this season.  They need to make the playoffs.

 

Jones didn't make a conclusion based on all of this but the vibe I took from it was Dan must be impatient and the idea of hitting some growing pains with a young QB if it cost them a playoff spot isn't on the table.

 

Im sticking with my view from the time of the trade that Gruden has been heavily influential in this move. It's not just on Bruce. I can see Grudens name against points a,b and c. I've had Smith to the Redskins out there for 12 months, he's a Gruden QB all over.

 

Sure, he'd have worked with Kirk moving forward, but I genuinely think he'll be very happy with Smith. And I'm not saying that just to appear anti Kirk. That's just my take.

 

Smith is now on a 5/111mil deal. I expect a restructure on his year one money to give him a sizeable signing bonus, 20mil plus. His cap number in 2018 dropping to say 10-15mil and the rest spread over 4 year. Very manageable numbers.

 

Bruce spends money when he thinks he needs to. Self preservation for both him and Gruden. Redskins One on standby for the biggest name FA has to offer, outside of QB that is 

[bedlamVR]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

With you on this, SIP.  Love to see us trade down in the 1st w/Buff, pick up an extra 2nd and then possibly trade down with our high 2nd and take a lower 2nd and 3rd round draft pick and select Lauleta in the 3rd or White in the 4th.  As deep as this draft is with QB's I'd like to see us draft one to sit and learn behind Smith.  For all we know his contract might only be for 3 years guaranteed.  Guess we have to wait until the trade is official before seeing the breakdown of the contract.

 

If smith plays and plays well do three years then at the very best you might get a developmental player to take the field in his contract year ... Kirk version 2 anyone? 

 

Using valuable draft resources this year in a quarterback would not make sense when we might use those picks on the D or offensive lines - just a thought 

[Dan73]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

True, but he does need some better reliable weapons to throw to.   Jury still out on Doctson. Maybe he lives up to be a 1st round pick, maybe he doesn't.  We probably need to sign or draft another WR.  Crowder is okay, but I wouldn't say he's a primary receiver.  I don't trust Reed to stay healthy.

 

 

Also, I see alot of people expects us to make the playoffs.   Even with the improvements we make this year, this team isn't going to crack the playoffs.  I would probably be saying the same thing, if Kirk was the QB.   That schedule is killer.  Alex may be veteran QB but even he's going  to need a little time adjust to Gruden and our players.  Is Alex the type of QB that makes players better?

I wonder if the guys that are on the team improve because of Smith. It was noted in an article last summer that the receivers helped out Cousins quite a bit.

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/nfl-kirk-cousins-contract-redskins-franchise-tag-bruce-allen

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

True, but he does need some better reliable weapons to throw to.   Jury still out on Doctson. Maybe he lives up to be a 1st round pick, maybe he doesn't.  We probably need to sign or draft another WR.  Crowder is okay, but I wouldn't say he's a primary receiver.  I don't trust Reed to stay healthy.

 

 

Also, I see alot of people expects us to make the playoffs.   Even with the improvements we make this year, this team isn't going to crack the playoffs.  I would probably be saying the same thing, if Kirk was the QB.   That schedule is killer.  Alex may be veteran QB but even he's going  to need a little time adjust to Gruden and our players.  Is Alex the type of QB that makes players better?

I agree on the receivers/weapons and I'm doubtful too of the playoffs. I would have been doubtful with Cousins too. Killer schedule and a team whose ceiling seems to be 9-7 when everything goes perfectly. I think that's partly why I rooted for Colt, a rookie QB, and a build the team strategy.

 

I think what Alex does well is he avoids stupid. Kirk got a lot better at avoiding stupid, but still has tendency to visit there in big games or at the beginnings of the season. Still, overall, I think Kirk is a better QB than Alex.

[Burgold]

Just read Alex Smith's quotes about how excited he is to come to DC and how he and his wife are using Google maps to check out neighborhoods. It's a warm, fuzzy article. Glad to hear and see this after weeks and weeks of nonstop badmouthing of the team (primarily by its fans)

 

This is a team on the borderline of being good or being rotten. Hopefully, we land head's up.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That's my feeling. My opinion is based more on that, as well as their history, up to trading for Alex Smith. More so than the rumor that Smith said he didn't want to go to a team that was going to draft a QB. Not that I really doubt that.

 

Mike Jones has been fairly correct about the whole Cousins drill the whole time.  So I believe him when they said they heavily considered to run with Colt and draft a QB high but elected to not do so because they couldn't afford this season not to make the playoffs.  According to Finlay in separate segments they liked Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph and then ultimately liked Mayfied (though they didn't like him initially). They felt through if they traded up and get it wrong again -- that would be a tough thing to live down.

 

So the way I digest all of this.  They made their QB decision on Jay and or Bruce being on a short leash.  In other words, Dan's impatience.  That's not IMO how to run a team.  Don't get me wrong, I think its perfectly plausible for them to draft the wrong guy -- heck maybe even likely they screw it up in the draft considering the odds.  I went back and forth myself on this crop.  But post Senior Bowl I changed my mind.  Part of it for me is I am a big Bruce Arians guy and he said it was the best group of QBs in 20 years -- and he specifically hyped Mayfield and Rudolph.   But as I stated, you don't move on from Kirk by going older IMO, you go younger.

 

12 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Hopefully the Smith trade becomes similar to the Burnell one and we can see other areas of the team develop. If still sucks giving up this much but if Smith turns out being similar to Cousins at a cheaper price then maybe it'll be worth it. 

 

 Vinny that year had a FA class for the ages which is weird to say.  But I'll give him his due for that one.  Arguably that class hasn't been matched again by this team.  It was an odd defense though because it fell off a cliff one season during that era and was remarkably un-clutch at times.  So it definitely didn't end up as a great era. It was up and down and nothing much in the post season.  I never thought at that time that looking back at it years later, I'd see it as maybe the best era under Dan. I would have appreciated it more then if so.

 

I saw that Alex's cap hit is 20.6 million this year (even though the salary is 17).  I gather then it escalates to 23.5.  So they are going cheaper at QB.  But this isn't a Dak Prescott -- young QB drill which leads them to having a ton of cap room so they can go nuts in FA.  It gives them a little more room.  And it looks like their best shot of taking advantage of it is this off season.  So hopefully they get aggressive. 

 

Personally I don't think this team has been good at playing the FA market whether it was Vinny, Shanny, Scot or Bruce.   IMO as Sheehan-Galdi likes to say stop overcompensating for Vinny -- and adapt a little more no guts no glory approach.  It doesn't have to be Haynesworth Part 2.  But most of their Wallmart shopping has failed them.  When they've succeeded for the most part is going after the players with the bigger resumes.  More Pierre Garcon, Zach Brown (who was a pro-bowler with the Bills) less Andre Roberts, Kendall Reyes, 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

 

Using valuable draft resources this year in a quarterback would not make sense when we might use those picks on the D or offensive lines - just a thought 

 

I'd agree if I believed in 2 points.  The hype about the depth in this draft at QB is rare and special is nonsense.  They are on the brink of a Superbowl run where that one pick was the tipping point.

 

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Im sticking with my view from the time of the trade that Gruden has been heavily influential in this move. It's not just on Bruce. I can see Grudens name against points a,b and c. I've had Smith to the Redskins out there for 12 months, he's a Gruden QB all over.

 

I do like Alex Smith. I think Kirk is better but Alex is close.  But I have to stop catching up with segments from people who covered him in KC (it wasn't just Spector) who rain on my parade about him.   Circling to one point I constantly hear about Alex is that he might be the most conservative QB in the league.  So if Jay's beef according to some Kirk critics is he's not enough the gun slinger...then, Alex is an odd rebuttal to that.   But if Jay's job is on the line this season (which some are hinting at) he has a better chance to win now with Alex than lets say teaching Mayfield or whomever to convert from the spread offense to the NFL. 

 

And the one thing that KC guys said broke Alex out of the conservative cocoon some this year was Tyreek Hill who got open deep a lot.  We need to find a guy like that.  I saw somewhere the Chief receivers had the best separation in the league last year.  So for me we don't need to just work on the defense but offense.  If I recall he also had top 10 running games in 9 of his last 10 seasons or something like that.  So we got some off season shopping to do IMO.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

36 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Just read Alex Smith's quotes about how excited he is to come to DC and how he and his wife are using Google maps to check out neighborhoods. It's a warm, fuzzy article. Glad to hear and see this after weeks and weeks of nonstop badmouthing of the team (primarily by its fans)

I was expecting him to say that he's meh on coming to DC, will stay at the Ritz Carlton, buy a house in northern Cali and fly back there anytime he gets a chance.

 

 

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was expecting him to say that he's meh on coming to DC, will stay at the Ritz Carlton, buy a house in northern Cali and fly back there anytime he gets a chance.

 

 

I know you were. :nods:

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

I know you were. :nods:

I have no beef with Alex Smith, the Redskins ineptitude hasn't rubbed off on him yet anyways.  It just doesn't make any sense for him to say anything else.  Kind of like how fans believe Kirk is a traitor because he said the right things through his whole ordeal here.  What else was he supposed to say?

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Circling to one point I constantly hear about Alex is that he might be the most conservative QB in the league.  So if Jay's beef according to some Kirk critics is he's not enough the gun slinger. 

 

 

Here's my unsupported two-level hope. One criticism I've heard leveled at Kirk through the years is that he's so preprogrammed he misses open guys. I especially heard that complaint about Kirk ignoring Doctson early in the year when apparently Josh was getting free all the time (Cooley reports.) The other thing I keep hearing is Jay's scheme is really good at getting guys open. It's possible then that Alex will still be conservative, but will more often throw to open receivers down the field.

 

In other words, it's possible that Alex will play more conservatively, but seem more aggressive.

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I have no beef with Alex Smith, the Redskins ineptitude hasn't rubbed off on him yet anyways.  It just doesn't make any sense for him to say anything else.  Kind of like how fans believe Kirk is a traitor because he said the right things through his whole ordeal here.  What else was he supposed to say?

Then why be negative and snarky about it? Why not feel good about a feel good quote or at least let it pass?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I especially heard that complaint about Kirk ignoring Doctson early in the year when apparently Josh was getting free all the time (Cooley reports.)

Interesting, I just heard Cooley last week talking about what many of us were thinking all season.  He can get loose straight away, but struggles to find separation on practically everything else, particularly on in routes.  He also thinks its an innate ability to create separation and Doctson doesn't have it.

 

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Then why be negative and snarky about it? Why not feel good about a feel good quote or at least let it pass?

I didn't think it was negative, perhaps a bit snarky.  Quotes just don't provide me any level of excitement nor do they solve any of the problems associated with the negative views of the fan base, that really don't have much to do with Smith and have much more to do with the folks that made the move for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Here's my unsupported two-level hope. One criticism I've heard leveled at Kirk through the years is that he's so preprogrammed he misses open guys. I especially heard that complaint about Kirk ignoring Doctson early in the year when apparently Josh was getting free all the time (Cooley reports.) The other thing I keep hearing is Jay's scheme is really good at getting guys open. It's possible then that Alex will still be conservative, but will more often throw to open receivers down the field.

 

To stay with that point, I'd stay far away from listening to most of the KC segments from people who covered him -- heck to some degree the national ones.  I was listening to a national segment which was a whole goof on Alex (Alex was a good sport about it) about being check down Charlie.  Alex then threw a ball to one of the radio guys with a lot of mustard and they had a good laugh about it. 

 

We got speculation that Jay might be frustrated with Kirk not being aggressive enough versus arguably the poster boy of the league of being conservative.  Alex is considered a good QB but the idea that the dude is conservative is just about a mantra with the dude.

 

And I am not saying that to beat Alex down.  I like him.  Sounds like based on some of the KC segments I heard and some of the KC fans joining this board to give their take, I like him better than a lot of the KC people did.    My point here is maybe the idea that Jay was frustrated with Kirk being too conservative might be overplayed.  Maybe the rap on Alex Smith's conservative play is overdone but at the very least he doesn't have a reputation for being a gun slinger.

 

My guess is acquiring Alex Smith is about this.  It's not like the team was walking into the mall and can pick from a laundry list of QBs they find intriguing.  QBs typically don't hit the market whether its FA or trade.  So they liked Alex Smith.   If anything it comes off that they liked the idea that Alex is like Kirk Cousins -- versus being the anti-Kirk Cousins.

 

Alex seems to be a cerebral -- process oriented QB.  Very much like how Kirk is described.  I was watching a Kelce interview about him and the way he described Alex reminded me of Kirk.   He doesn't like to make mistakes and isn't a let it fly damn the consequences kind of QB.   Even their personalities come off to me similar.  Alex maybe a little quieter, laid back -- more sarcastic style humor.  Kirk a little goofier and more boisterous.  Both are PG types/nice guys.  But they both seem to be similar cats both as players and personalities. 

[LightningBuggs]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I caught up with a Mike Jones segment from Sheehan-Cooley.  His points:

 

A.  The FO weren't all in on Kirk.  They put it on him some of the close loses this season.

B.   The combination of Colt and drafting a QB was considered -- but they elected not to do so because they were likely afraid that Colt would get hurt and the young QB wouldn't be ready to succeed right away.

C.  It's really really really important that they are successful this season.  They need to make the playoffs.

 

Jones didn't make a conclusion based on all of this but the vibe I took from it was Dan must be impatient and the idea of hitting some growing pains with a young QB if it cost them a playoff spot isn't on the table.

 

Part C is simultaneously sickening and unsurprising.  Every season is "Groundhog Day".  They always think they're only a few parts away from being a contender.  Think they only need to reload, not rebuild.

 

There will never, ever be a chance for a much-needed rebuild as long as Dan owns the team.

[Burgold]

3 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Part C is simultaneously sickening and unsurprising.  Every season is "Groundhog Day".  They always think they're only a few parts away from being a contender.  Think they only need to reload, not rebuild.

 

There will never, ever be a chance for a much-needed rebuild as long as Dan owns the team.

I don't think it's sickening from this perspective. We're in year six of Jay Gruden's tenure. By now, he should have his team running on all cylinders. We've had the same HC and FO long enough to assemble a team. We should be disciplined, consistent, and good. If we're not then Gruden, Allen, and company need to explain why.

[Dan73]

16 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't think it's sickening from this perspective. We're in year six of Jay Gruden's tenure. By now, he should have his team running on all cylinders. We've had the same HC and FO long enough to assemble a team. We should be disciplined, consistent, and good. If we're not then Gruden, Allen, and company need to explain why.

The problem is that the Skins are still fixing things from the  days. The switch on defence to a 3-4 has never been complete. The oline needed new players and the quarterback situation is now being addressed.

[OVCChairman]

The sad thing is that we've luckboxed our way, via disaster, into a very favorable position.  Hypothetically looking at things, if we hadn't botched the Kirk deal, and he was the 33 year old QB getting paid $23.5 mil per year, with the idea of having another 2 - 3 years of being competitive to find his heir apparent and develop, everyone would be lauding the FO for remaining competitive, while building the team through consistency.   Now it's time for the FO to spend the next 22 months finding another option for long the long term @ QB.  

[Burgold]

38 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

The problem is that the Skins are still fixing things from the  days. The switch on defence to a 3-4 has never been complete. The oline needed new players and the quarterback situation is now being addressed.

but we shouldn't be.

 

The Eagles are two years removed from the Chip Kelly Front Office disaster. Their team just won a Superbowl. It can't take a pro team ten years to turn around because if it does, by the time you're ready to fly almost all your good players have retired or moved on.

[Dan73]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

but we shouldn't be.

 

The Eagles are two years removed from the Chip Kelly Front Office disaster. Their team just won a Superbowl. It can't take a pro team ten years to turn around because if it does, by the time you're ready to fly almost all your good players have retired or moved on.

Did Kelly redo their entire defence and Oline as well as giving up multiple picks hurting the team for the future?

 

 

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

Did Kelly redo their entire defence and Oline as well as giving up multiple picks hurting the team for the future?

 

 

Pretty much. That team was empty. He gave away all their talent and replaced it with trash. Besides, RGIII was seven years ago. Do you realize how many draft picks and free agents ago that was?

 

We've done a pretty good job of rising from crap to mediocre, but there really is no good reason that the team couldn't have rebuilt the team by now other than their FO and/or coaching just wasn't good enough. That said, I think Gruden and even Allen deserve some credit from wrighting the ship. We are no longer crud. We are now an "okay" team and bunched among the mediocre. That's a big step up from Shanny and the end of Zorn.

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Pretty much. That team was empty. He gave away all their talent and replaced it with trash. Besides, RGIII was seven years ago. Do you realize how many draft picks and free agents ago that was?

 

We've done a pretty good job of rising from crap to mediocre, but there really is no good reason that the team couldn't have rebuilt the team by now other than their FO and/or coaching just wasn't good enough. That said, I think Gruden and even Allen deserve some credit from wrighting the ship. We are no longer crud. We are now an "okay" team and bunched among the mediocre. That's a big step up from Shanny and the end of Zorn.

having 0 first round picks for 3 years, teamed with the salary cap penalty is still haunting us now though.  While we're appearing to be trending in a somewhat positive direction, it still hurts.  That said, I agree that we could be ahead of where we are now if things had been handled correctly.  There have been some poor decisions since then that have hindered our growth, and that cannot go absolved.   We flipped from the riskiest team in the league, to the absolute most conservative.  There has been little balance, and that has slowed the process.  

[Dan73]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Pretty much. That team was empty. He gave away all their talent and replaced it with trash. Besides, RGIII was seven years ago. Do you realize how many draft picks and free agents ago that was?

 

We've done a pretty good job of rising from crap to mediocre, but there really is no good reason that the team couldn't have rebuilt the team by now other than their FO and/or coaching just wasn't good enough. That said, I think Gruden and even Allen deserve some credit from wrighting the ship. We are no longer crud. We are now an "okay" team and bunched among the mediocre. That's a big step up from Shanny and the end of Zorn.

As much as people hate Allen they are no longer the team people go to just to get paid. The next 2 years will be the real indicator if the Skins will take the next step.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Dan73 said:

As much as people hate Allen they are no longer the team people go to just to get paid. The next 2 years will be the real indicator if the Skins will take the next step.

I agree and that's the glass half full way I usually like to look at it

This year and this draft is especially important to Allen. It's his baby and his team. No "Shanny has total contro"l or "Allen is only succeeding because he cribbed McCloughan's notes," excuses.