2018 Washington Nationals - Weak Cheese

[@DCGoldPants]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Gives us a good chance for a split, which is all we can hope for there, at the end of a long, long stretch.

 

I like that by the time they arrive in AZ, they will be adjusted to West Coast time fully. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

I like that by the time they arrive in AZ, they will be adjusted to West Coast time fully. 

A West Coast trip with no travel days blows. Good thing we're playing ****ty San Diego

[DC9]

I know I'm a few weeks late on the praise for this but I'll go anyway. 

 

Really impressed with Rizzo pulling the plug on Cole almost immediately.  I've got my complaints about him, I think he's a good GM but I also think he's been supremely overrated by many.  I honestly saw visions of Dan Haren after Cole's first start and I know the thing with Rizzo has been that Cole was "The one that got away," I believe it was during the Gio Gonzalez trade... but he went up several notches in my book by pulling that plug and admitting a mistake. 

 

It's very difficult for an alpha in any walk of life to admit defeat and move on, especially immediately, that showed tremendous character from Rizzo.  It's important to keep evolving even when you've reached the pinnacle of your profession.

[CRobi21]

[RemoveSnyder]

Reds win in 10, walkoff HR. 

[Dan T.]

5 hours ago, DC9 said:

I know I'm a few weeks late on the praise for this but I'll go anyway. 

 

Really impressed with Rizzo pulling the plug on Cole almost immediately.  I've got my complaints about him, I think he's a good GM but I also think he's been supremely overrated by many.  I honestly saw visions of Dan Haren after Cole's first start and I know the thing with Rizzo has been that Cole was "The one that got away," I believe it was during the Gio Gonzalez trade... but he went up several notches in my book by pulling that plug and admitting a mistake. 

 

It's very difficult for an alpha in any walk of life to admit defeat and move on, especially immediately, that showed tremendous character from Rizzo.  It's important to keep evolving even when you've reached the pinnacle of your profession.

 

Not only that, but he brought in Cole's replacement.  And Jeremy Hellickson is pitching pretty damn good for a back-of-the-rotation starter.

 

While we're talking Rizzo, how's that replacement for Adam Lind doing these days?  Matt Adams is destroying everything in his path.

 

Everybody says drafting Harper and Strasburg were no brainers.  True.  But it's these fill-out-the-roster moves where Rizzo really shines - time after time.

[PleaseBlitz]

Anyone remember 2015 when nobody wanted Daniel Murphy, so Rizzo scooped him up?

[DC9]

6 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Not only that, but he brought in Cole's replacement.  And Jeremy Hellickson is pitching pretty damn good for a back-of-the-rotation starter.

 

While we're talking Rizzo, how's that replacement for Adam Lind doing these days?  Matt Adams is destroying everything in his path.

 

Everybody says drafting Harper and Strasburg were no brainers.  True.  But it's these fill-out-the-roster moves where Rizzo really shines - time after time.

 

The bench is fantastic.  And some of the youngins on the farm are finally on the fringe of ready to contribute.  It's a fun time to watch this team.

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, CRobi21 said:

 

 

 

I'm sure it was Matt Harvey's fault.

[DC9]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Anyone remember 2015 when nobody wanted Daniel Murphy, so Rizzo scooped him up?

 

I think to be fair to the process... Murphy was the third choice that year.  The move was still made, but this is a good example of why I say "he's supremely overrated by some."

 

He's very good and he's very smart. 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, DC9 said:

 

I think to be fair to the process... Murphy was the third choice that year.  The move was still made, but this is a good example of why I say "he's supremely overrated by some."

 

He's very good and he's very smart. 

 

I would argue that being fair would give credit to the one (1) GM that actually signed Murph.  And that he didn't have to go all-in on the first 2 choices b/c he knew he had a Plan B, and a Plan C (as Rizzo always seems to have). 

[DC9]

6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I would argue that being fair would give credit to the one (1) GM that actually signed Murph.  And that he didn't have to go all-in on the first 2 choices b/c he knew he had a Plan B, and a Plan C (as Rizzo always seems to have). 

 

That's one way to look at it.  That was the year that, at least perception from agents as reported by just about everyone, we had a toxic locker room and Zobrist and I think it was Reyes chose to go play elsewhere.

 

So failing on target A and B and then getting very lucky with target C, who ended up being the best of the bunch.

 

Gosh, you just can't be anything but 100% positive in here can you? 

 

I think all GMs have a list in order of precedence to sign... not all "tier 3" players turn out to be wolfs in sheep's clothing like Murphy was. 

 

 

[Popeman38]

7 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

That's one way to look at it.  That was the year that, at least perception from agents as reported by just about everyone, we had a toxic locker room and Zobrist and I think it was Reyes chose to go play elsewhere.

 

So failing on target A and B and then getting very lucky with target C, who ended up being the best of the bunch.

 

Gosh, you just can't be anything but 100% positive in here can you? 

 

I think all GMs have a list in order of precedence to sign... not all "tier 3" players turn out to be wolfs in sheep's clothing like Murphy was. 

 

 

No, it was Brandon Phillips. He refused to waive his NMC to come to the Nats. He waived it to go to the Braves.

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, DC9 said:

 

That's one way to look at it.  That was the year that, at least perception from agents as reported by just about everyone, we had a toxic locker room and Zobrist and I think it was Reyes chose to go play elsewhere.

 

So failing on target A and B and then getting very lucky with target C, who ended up being the best of the bunch.

 

Gosh, you just can't be anything but positive in here can you? 

 

I don't think I'm being overly positive.  You think he got "very lucky" with Murphy, which just discredits the work that Rizzo puts in.  The list was Zobrist, then Brandon Phillips, then Murphy, then Howie Kendrick was Plan D.  All of those guys would have been pretty good, and Kendrick eventually came here too and has been great.  So I'm not being overly positive, I'm assuming that when a guy does his job really well, over and over and over and over, it's not luck.  

 

Rizzo's had some misses (Paps, Haren and Cole come to mind).  One can pick nits, but his entire body of work is an A.  

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

No, it was Brandon Phillips. He refused to waive his NMC to come to the Nats. He waived it to go to the Braves.

 

He would waive it for a ridiculous extension. Rizzo, who will not pay more than he thinks is fair, said thanks, but no thanks and moved on.

Phillips was traded to the Braves the following offseason.

22 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

I'm sure it was Matt Harvey's fault.

 

I blame Terry Collins.

[DC9]

6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I don't think I'm being overly positive.  You think he got "very lucky" with Murphy, which just discredits the work that Rizzo puts in.  The list was Zobrist, then Brandon Phillips, then Murphy, then Howie Kendrick was Plan D.  All of those guys would have been pretty good, and Kendrick eventually came here too and has been great.  So I'm not being overly positive, I'm assuming that when a guy does his job really well, over and over and over and over, it's not luck.  

 

Rizzo's had some misses (Paps, Haren and Cole come to mind).  One can pick nits, but his entire body of work is an A.  

 

Okay, so Devil's Advocate... and this literally ONLY happens in this thread cause God forbid anyone questions the Godfather...

 

But if Murphy was his Number 1 and he signed him straight away... without dancing with the other two... that is when I would say "Ain't no body dope as him, he's just so fresh so clean..."

 

But he didn't.  So there was some luck involved and you literally have to admit that because he was the third choice.

 

I swear to God this thread is insufferable.  I come in here to give kudos and the only thing you guys see is the slightly left-handed compliment I give him.

 

For ****'s sake, men...

[DC9]

17 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Rizzo's had some misses (Paps, Haren and Cole come to mind).  One can pick nits, but his entire body of work is an A.  

 

He becomes an immortal when he wins a championship.  Everyone has misses.  He has far more hits than misses.  Usually there is just a better team out there or a better manager. 

 

My only problem with Rizzo has been the deification of his ability as a GM when he hasn't won the team a ring.  He's obviously working hard for that.  He makes very good moves.  He seems like a great dude.  I'd love for his children to marry my children.

 

So really my problem is not with Rizzo... it's with many of the fans, I guess.

[Riggo#44]

36 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Not only that, but he brought in Cole's replacement.  And Jeremy Hellickson is pitching pretty damn good for a back-of-the-rotation starter.

 

While we're talking Rizzo, how's that replacement for Adam Lind doing these days?  Matt Adams is destroying everything in his path.

 

Everybody says drafting Harper and Strasburg were no brainers.  True.  But it's these fill-out-the-roster moves where Rizzo really shines - time after time.

 

While we're on it, let's talk about the International Scouting department. It was almost completely shuttered--the Lerners refused to spend ANYTHING after the Smiley Gonzalez fiasco. Wilmer Difo and Pedro Severino have been major pieces, Wander Suero has shown he can get people out (even if his peripherals are ugly right now, I think he'll be very useful). And then there are Victor Robles and Juan Soto. Robles is hurt, but he'd probably be in left right now otherwise. Juan Soto is unfortunate-cialis-side-effect inducing: http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=665742#/career/R/hitting/2018/ALL

[Riggo#44]

19 minutes ago, DC9 said:

I swear to God this thread is insufferable.  I come in here to give kudos and the only thing you guys see is the slightly left-handed compliment I give him.

 

For ****'s sake, men...

 

8 minutes ago, DC9 said:

... it's with many of the fans, I guess.

 

Then why do you post here?

[DC9]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

 

Then why do you post here?

 

Cause I'm a fan of the team and I'm allowed to?

 

 

I know you're the ring leader. 

 

Baseball is the "intelligent man's game," but you certainly have a hard time compartmentalizing.

[PleaseBlitz]

23 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

Okay, so Devil's Advocate... and this literally ONLY happens in this thread cause God forbid anyone questions the Godfather...

 

But if Murphy was his Number 1 and he signed him straight away... without dancing with the other two... that is when I would say "Ain't no body dope as him, he's just so fresh so clean..."

 

But he didn't.  So there was some luck involved and you literally have to admit that because he was the third choice.

 

I swear to God this thread is insufferable.  I come in here to give kudos and the only thing you guys see is the slightly left-handed compliment I give him.

 

For ****'s sake, men...

 

I think you are overstating your case.  It's entirely reasonable to have Plan A ... at a certain price.  And a Plan B ... who ultimately won't sign with you.  Then go to Plan C.  Then when Plan C ends up working out great, and you are the ONLY PERSON that wants the said Plan C, then "devil's advocates" have a really ****ty case that it was just dumb luck.  Sorry if you think this is insufferable.  I think your insistence that Murphy working out is dumb luck is pretty insufferable.  

[DC9]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I think you are overstating your case.  It's entirely reasonable to have Plan A ... at a certain price.  And a Plan B ... who ultimately won't sign with you.  Then go to Plan C.  Then when Plan C ends up working out great, and you are the ONLY PERSON that wants the said Plan C, then "devil's advocates" have a really ****ty case that it was just dumb luck.  Sorry if you think this is insufferable.  I think your insistence that Murphy working out is dumb luck is pretty insufferable.  

 

When Plan C was the ONLY PERSON willing to come to your team... sure... it wasn't lucky at all.

[PleaseBlitz]

16 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

He becomes an immortal when he wins a championship.  Everyone has misses.  He has far more hits than misses.  Usually there is just a better team out there or a better manager. 

 

 

This is basically what I'm saying.  I'm not deifying anyone.  But if you don't think Rizzo is extremely good at his job, then I think you are pretty far out on the fringe.  

[Riggo#44]

Just now, DC9 said:

 

Cause I'm a fan of the team and I'm allowed to?

 

 

 

I never questioned either of those, but if this thread is so insufferable, why put yourself through that? For the record--I don't think anything you posted was unfair or off base, nor was anyone's reply.

 

Rizzo certainly got lucky with Murphy--both in signing him and having him blow up like he has. We also got lucky in 2008 too--we lost nine of 10, including the last four games to end the season, the Mariners won the last three, and we finished with the 1st overall pick to draft Strasburg by a game and a half. It happens--but having a sound plan and the ability to walk away when a deal goes bad leads to this luck.

 

 

3 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

When Plan C was the ONLY PERSON willing to come to your team... sure... it wasn't lucky at all.

 

That's not true. Phillips was willing to come here for a ridiculous extension--to which Rizzo waked away from.

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, DC9 said:

 

When Plan C was the ONLY PERSON willing to come to your team... sure... it wasn't lucky at all.

 

I was trying to give you some benefit of the doubt but, well, this is just dumb.  The Nats could have gotten any number of other second basemen.  Two (2) guys decided they wanted to play elsewhere (FWIW, Zobrist's contract is worth roughly $20MM more than Murphy's).  As I already noted, Kendrick was the next option, and pretty clearly he was willing to come to DC since he is currently in DC.