Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread [SPOILERS ALLOWED!]

[justice98]

22 hours ago, Hersh said:

All these Jedi temples that have been built in the past had all sorts of kids that didn't have Jedi bloodlines. 

 

We dont know anything about those people's bloodlines though.  Other than they had midochlorians or whatever that prequel nonsense was.

[justice98]

On 12/15/2017 at 10:32 PM, Metalhead said:

After Kylo and Rey's face-off following their tandem fight, she magically appears in the Falcon. Huh?

 

I wondered that too.

[justice98]

On 12/15/2017 at 2:33 PM, codeorama said:

Doesn’t surprise me. 

On one hand, I feel a lot of people are really dumb and see that critics say the movie is good and therefore it’s good. 

Also, there are 2 questions: is it a good movie as compared to is it a good Star Wars movie. 

 

Because the episode movies are about the Skywalker family. Period. If she’s not a Skywalker that leaves Ben/Kylo as the hero. I know you don’t want the episode movies to have to be about the Skywalker’s, but they are. That’s a fact. 

 

It seems to me like Rian Johnson went out of his way to leave as little Skywalker remnants as possible.  If Kylo werent already in the family from TFA, lord only knows what he woulda done.

 

Now, allegedly Leia was supposed to be a big part of 9, but now we'll never know.

 

With Han gone, Luke gone, and Leia now having to be gone, Kylo's Skywalker lineage and family dynamic would almost seem poised to be an afterthought.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

I'm still not even sure how Benicio Del Toro's character knew about the shuttles as they camed out of Hyperspace straight on Snoke's capital ship.

 

He was standing there breaking into the tracker room when Finn was talking to Poe on the intercom and Poe tells him about the shuttles. He overheard it 

23 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I wondered that too.

 

She escapes in Snokes escape craft as Hux tells Kylo. She then met up with Chewie/Falcon since she told them to wait for her call to come get her 

[Warhead36]

18 hours ago, Bacon said:

 

Rotten Tomatoes audience scores:

Suicide Squad - 61%
The Last Jedi - 57%
Norbit - 53%
 

I refuse to take RT seriously anymore. They gave mother! like a 60 something % and that abomination was the worst movie in the history of cinema.

[Warhead36]

Responding to a bunch of replies(don't feel like quoting each one)...

 

Reg. Snoke, I do agree that I'd have liked to know a little bit more about him. BUT with that said, in the original trilogy we didn't know jack about the Emperor either. We know that Snoke is a badass with immense power though, which makes Kylo killing and overthrowing him all the more powerful a moment. If you know your SW lore you know that the Sith are all about the Rule of Two: there must always be a Master and an Apprentice to overthrow him. Snoke being killed by Kylo really sets Kylo up to be an incredible villain, albeit one with flaws(temperament, attitude etc.). But that makes it more interesting too.

 

Reg. Finn and Poe, I like Poe a lot. But it does seem like they're both a little bit too similar especially now with Finn manning up more. But when Finn decides to go renegade too, that made him too similar to Poe. I'd like to see them both come to leadership roles in the third movie but have different ways about things. Poe being the more guns blazing type while Finn being more cautious and conservative. Would create an interesting dynamic.

 

Reg. Leia, I too think it would have been more meaningful if she sacrificed herself on the hyperspeed suicide play, but that would taken away from the Luke and Leia reunion on the salt planet. Of course now that Carrie Fisher has left us(RIP), it'll be interesting to see how they write her character in the third movie. Maybe there will be some kind of attack on the new Jedi Council early in the third movie and Leia sacrifices herself but again, not sure how they'll work that out. They absolutely can NOT use a new actress, that would be a spit in all our faces.

 

Reg. the sequel aspect/directorial direction, I can understand those points. I think JJ wrote Force Awakens as essentially a remake of New Hope, which I was fine with(it had enough differences that it didn't bother me). Johnson wanted to go in a different direction which I also respect, he didn't want an ESB remake. I think he did a fine job and I can live with him kinda disregarding what JJ had setup, as I actually like that Kylo ultimately reveals to Rey that her parents came from nothing(I think it makes both their character developments and that moment itself much more powerful). And I like that Johnson placed more emphasis on Kylo's development in overthrowing Snoke in the typical Sith way to establish him as the main villain instead of focusing on Snoke, which I don't think was anywhere near as interesting a character despite his power and status.

 

Reg. Rose, meh I didn't mind her that much. I do think they could have casted a better actress though. But her connection to Finn is important. Finn needed a reason to be with the Rebels besides just Rey who he was willing to bail on the Rebels to find, now he has that in Rose. Rose is really just a character used to strengthen/assert Finn's character.

 

Reg. the comedy stuff, I thought it was fine. Just enough for me really. There are always light hearted moments in Star Wars movies. I did think Luke brushing his shoulders after avoiding being annhilated by cannons was a little cringey though, but it was a badass moment he did deserve. And his "everything you said is completely wrong" line is just so awesome.

[NoCalMike]

I think the difference for me is that Darth Vader himself was such a baddass that it felt like he was already at the stage to be a sith Master when he first appears in ANH.  Yes, he is serving The Emperor, but he was THE GUY as far as most people were concerned.  Kylo Ren to me comes off more like a a guy still learning and coming to terms with his own path, He doesn't feel as a character, ready to be THE VILLAIN to carry a movie.  That's not to say I didn't enjoy all his stuff in TLJ, I did...but it didn't seem like the right time in his growth/development to kill off his Master. Hell, everytime Kylo goes up against someone else that is good with the force he loses. 

 

I think the desire for a lot of us when it comes to wanting to know more about Snoke is that it's really a bigger issue with wanting to know more about the events that took place between ROTJ & TFA.  We want to know how the empire picked up the pieces and completely rebuilt itself.  Where did Snoke fit into this process, what exactly is the "First Order" & "Knights Ren" etc etc.....Once the rebel alliance were successful in ROTJ what happened that led to them not being able to make sure the empire didn't grow back to that level?

 

As mediocre as the prequels were, the one thing they did get right, IMO, was giving us backstory on how Palpatine constructed everything from behind the scenes.  His powers of manipulation were as effective as his use of the dark side of the force. We can say that none of that was in the OT, and that is true, but we will never go back to not having all that info and backstory now.

 

I wonder if once this trilogy is over, they would maybe do a stand alone movie sort of in the vein of Rogue One, that bridges the gap between trilogies? That way we get more of Snoke and how he turned Kylo and all that stuff.

[DogofWar1]

14 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

The galaxy as a whole, was terrified and thought useless to even stand up to the first order or come to the aid of the resistance which had been whittled down to nothing. They didn’t answer their distress call from Crait. Which is why it was significant that Luke returned to ignite that hope within the galaxy as we see in the final frame. As Leia said, They have everything they need to continue and win this rebellion because Luke gave them that. 

 

As for Snoke, I don’t know if he will end up being Plaguies or not. On the second viewing if you just understand he is one of thousands of sith masters before him that was eventually killed or betrayed by their apprentice, it makes senses. this wasn’t Snokes story, he was merely there for Kylo. 

I have sort of adopted that explanation for everything in the first paragraph, but I think my problem is that it wasn't really shown.  I totally buy that the rest of the galaxy is useless and/or scared of Snoke, but we get very little interaction with the rest of the universe.  Further, they sent the distress beacon after Snoke was wasted (though in fairness I'm not 100% sure they knew Snoke was dead), and if they knew Snoke was gone and that was in the message, it would be the perfect moment to fight back.  Why not?  A teeny bit more explanation would have gone a long way there.

 

As for Luke returning, I agree, but simultaneously, are a dozen people aboard the Falcon going to spread the story in a truly powerful manner throughout the entire galaxy?  In other media this is usually where stuff is broadcast to the entire galaxy so everyone gets fired up, or alternatively a singular really important person sees it (like Obi-Wan's "death" in Episode 4 with Luke looking on).  Rey feels it, but I think her not seeing it in person detracts from it.

 

 

As for Snoke, I'd be fine with that explanation if the universe hadn't gone to great pains to explain the rule of two re: the Sith.  There are other possible explanations than Plaguies, like he could have been an old apprentice of Sidious who Sidious tried to kill who hid after the attempt, but that's the problem, he COULD have just been there as a story vessel for Kylo, but the backstory of Star Wars makes it clear that Snoke SHOULD be tied to the Sith/Sidious in some way.

 

Plus they totally botched his powers.

 

I mean, I can dig the "hubris causes a fall" bit, and Snoke clearly had hubris re: his mind-reading powers, but there was no foreshadowing of the fall.  He was all-powerful, connecting minds across the galaxy and **** and then suddenly, while actively probing Kylo's mind, misses that he's totally about to kill him?

 

Like, they need to go back and fix that nonsense.  Make it so Snoke can detect light and dark in someone's intent, and make it like he detected dark in Kylo's intent at that moment, and made the assumption that Kylo was using his dark intent to kill Rey when REALLY the dark intent was to kill Snoke and become Supreme Ruler himself.  Would make a lot more sense.

 

Director's cut plz.

 

Maybe I'm being overly nit-picky, but I feel like so many movies need someone to basically finish it, and then have test audiences point out where things need a little more fleshing out, or where the story starts getting wonky, and then have the team add/subtract little bits here and there.  Like I'd give the movie 7.5/10 right now (probably), but make a few little changes here and there and I'd give it a solid 9/10 easy.

 

 

Also one more thing, okay I totally get the plan was to make Leia really important for IX but once Carrie Fisher died, re-write that **** and keep Luke around.  I'm "okay" with his death, but JUUUUUSSSTTTT barely, but once you add in Fisher being gone, it becomes a very delicate story situation where they could get written into a corner really fast.

 

 

Oh wait, wait, one more.

 

I like Carrie Fisher's daughter as an actress, she's very good in Scream Queens, but she feels woefully underutilized in Star Wars.  Like she doesn't do anything special, which is okay, but nothing really differentiates her from "random crewman #7."  She needs more character development.  I personally know who she is and why she's there and appreciate her from her other work, so it's fine for me, but for random audience viewer #1287659, if they haven't watched Scream Queens and don't know she's Fisher's daughter, they're probably like "okay, but WHO IS SHE!?"  More character development for mini-Leia plz.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I think the desire for a lot of us when it comes to wanting to know more about Snoke is that it's really a bigger issue with wanting to know more about the events that took place between ROTJ & TFA.  We want to know how the empire picked up the pieces and completely rebuilt itself.  Where did Snoke fit into this process, what exactly is the "First Order" & "Knights Ren" etc etc.....Once the rebel alliance were successful in ROTJ what happened that led to them not being able to make sure the empire didn't grow back to that level?

 

This 100%. I’m really mostly disappointed in that was I was hoping to expand the lore and the world building in this movie. Covering things like the past 30 years, knights of ren, Snoke and what happened that night Kylo betrayed Luke. Things like that connect the world to the past and engage us further. It’s what GoT does so well. 

 

We barely got pieces of any of that. Hopefully, they can dive into that more in 9.aube The knights of ren return and Kylo must battle them. Luke mentioned some of his pupils left with Kylo, I assume that’s who they were, but where did they go? 

[drowland]

5 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

This 100%. I’m really mostly disappointed in that was I was hoping to expand the lore and the world building in this movie. Covering things like the past 30 years, knights of ren, Snoke and what happened that night Kylo betrayed Luke. Things like that connect the world to the past and engage us further. It’s what GoT does so well. 

 

We barely got pieces of any of that. Hopefully, they can dive into that more in 9.aube The knights of ren return and Kylo must battle them. Luke mentioned some of his pupils left with Kylo, I assume that’s who they were, but where did they go? 

 

I hope they bring the Knights of Ren into Episode IX.  Maybe they turn on Kylo.  It's also time for Lando to return.  The Resistance needs help and Lando and Nien Nunb are the guys they need.   

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I thought Lando was going to be the code breaker in the casino planet 

[elkabong82]

Movie was meh to me. I was hopeful based on the reviews, but it overall was just meh. I think I actually like TFA better.

 

Disney has a bad habit of curbing down the danger element in these movies to make it more "kid friendly."

 

The movie cut from one scene to another very abruptly and it threw the pacing off a bit IMO.

 

The final act was actually kind of annoying. Nobody can shoot Finn down, with all those walkers there? Nor can they shoot down Rose? And her saving Finn was stupid. I actually would have really liked Finn sacrificing himself there. His character is just kind of along for teh ride anyway. The Rose kiss with him felt forced, and at the end it feels like they are going to try and force Rey-Poe. 

 

Those cute creatures from the island that were on the Millenium Falcon were stupid and distracting.

 

The fighting I liked though. A lot more tactical and some cool parts to it. Was fine with Snoke dying, especially in such a cool way, and it letting Ren take over. 

 

That end battle should have been cool with all the walkers there but it was underwhelming. Luke fight w/ Ren was decent. 

 

Dern taking out the ship was cool too.

 

But there just wasn't enough draw in the movie and too many annoyances. Not enough stood out as memorable and too much stood out as annoying. 

 

93% on RT makes me think Disney is indeed paying off critics. This movie should be in low 70s

[Gallen5862]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 4:50 PM, NoCalMike said:

 

Yes I agree with that totally. It definitely feels like that some things setup and hinted as being important in Episode 7, were disregarded and done away with in Episode 8.  As a stand alone film I think Episode 8 is a good movie, but it does feel a bit disjointed, and now JJ Abrams is back for Episode 9, so he is left picking up the pieces after his vision was put off track.  Will be interesting to see how this trilogy wraps up.

 

JJ Abrams could have Luke come back as a Force Ghost! He could tell Rey that she is actually the twin sister to Ben/Kylo. That her parents are Han Solo and Leia. That Snoke detected Ben being born and that they wanted to protect Rey until she was needed.That was the reason that Vader"s and Luke"s  lightsaber reacted to Rey. That the drunk parent story that Kylo told her about were really a cover story!  Luke could tell Rey who Snoke really was and what training that kylo had received from Luke and probably from Snoke. Luke could tell Rey that is why she had the connection to Ren, He could tell Rey how ben was turned into Kylo and how to turn him back into Ben.

[DogofWar1]

Yeah, the more and more I think about it, the more and more I think Johnson either needs to have a master plan for IX, or Disney needs to boot him hard and get someone in there who will tie up the loose ends of VII that VIII tried to ignore or get rid of for...whatever the hell Johnson's vision is.

 

Seeing theories that Snoke isn't dead but rather was projecting a force ghost ala. Luke, with evidence (not proof, since so far no one has said it's definite) being that Snoke looks "healthier" in VIII than he did in his holograms in VII, which is similar to how Luke looked a little younger/healthier in his force ghost form.

 

Obviously, no way to know for sure until IX, but I hope that's the case.  He's just wasted potential right now, and that kind of thing really bothers me a ton and makes me really lose a lot of love for a series.

[Bacon]

3 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

The Rose kiss with him felt forced

 

It was forced. He wasn't into it, which was the most realistic part of the scene. Thought the acting there was actually spot on for that situation.

 

38 minutes ago, Gallen5862 said:

 

JJ Abrams could have Luke come back as a Force Ghost! He could tell Rey that she is actually the twin sister to Ben/Kylo. That her parents are Han Solo and Leia. That Snoke detected Ben being born and that they wanted to protect Rey until she was needed.That was the reason that Vader"s and Luke"s  lightsaber reacted to Rey. That the drunk parent story that Kylo told her about were really a cover story!  Luke could tell Rey who Snoke really was and what training that kylo had received from Luke and probably from Snoke. Luke could tell Rey that is why she had the connection to Ren, He could tell Rey how ben was turned into Kylo and how to turn him back into Ben.

 

And to really pander to Rotten Tomatoes' neckbeard userbase, make sure to throw out any kind of minority representation (delete Rose, downplay Finn and Rey). 100% audience score here we come!

[Springfield]

Just saw it.  Probably rehashing what everyone else has said, but here it goes:

 

1.  Kylo Ren sucks.  At this point in the trilogy, he needs to be evil.  Instead, we get the same petulant child from ep 7.  Darth Maul was way more badass than this joker.  It sucks because the main villain in this trilogy is just a big ball of meh.  Really drags on me.

 

2.  There was no major WTF moment.  Plenty of opportunity, nothing happened.  Thanks Disney.

 

3.  Why the **** didn’t Leia die?  Seriously.  Another creepy cgi character incoming?

 

4.  Way to kill of Luke.  Couldn’t make it any more confusing or lame.  Dude just disappears without warning.

 

I dont know how they wrap this thing up.  Real hard for me to see them wrapping this up nicely.  The main villain has yet to become truly evil.  The main hero has yet to become a real hero.  Basically all we’ve gotten is a general story that the empire wants to kill the rebels because that’s what they do, and they’ve managed to kill off 2 of the primary characters from eps 4-6.

 

Its was an enjoyable film.  For 2 1/2 hours I never felt board.  It wasn’t special though.  Probably 6th or 7th best of all the Star Wars episodes.

[justice98]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I refuse to take RT seriously anymore. They gave mother! like a 60 something % and that abomination was the worst movie in the history of cinema.

 

RT is just amassing reviews and giving a score based on the reviews, they arent reviewing the movie themselves. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

Seeing theories that Snoke isn't dead but rather was projecting a force ghost ala. Luke, with evidence (not proof, since so far no one has said it's definite) being that Snoke looks "healthier" in VIII than he did in his holograms in VII, which is similar to how Luke looked a little younger/healthier in his force ghost form

 

How do you cut of a force projection in half like they did Snoke? It’s the exact opposite of what happened to Luke. Also, I viewed Luke looking younger because that was how he looked the last time Kylo saw him. 

 

Internets need to do better to make me believe snoke might still be alive  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 hours ago, Springfield said:

Kylo Ren sucks.  At this point in the trilogy, he needs to be evil.  Instead, we get the same petulant child from ep 7.  Darth Maul was way more badass than this joker.  It sucks because the main villain in this trilogy is just a big ball of meh.  Really drags on me.

 

Kylo and Rey are the best things about this new trilogy and they are some of the best things about the entire series. He is way more engaging than Vader was thru this point in his story. 

 

He doesn’t have to be pure evil to be a good villain. 

[justice98]

10 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I thought Lando was going to be the code breaker in the casino planet 

 

I thought Lando was gonna come with reinforcements from the Outer Rim.

[DogofWar1]

15 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

How do you cut of a force projection in half like they did Snoke? It’s the exact opposite of what happened to Luke. Also, I viewed Luke looking younger because that was how he looked the last time Kylo saw him. 

 

Internets need to do better to make me believe snoke might still be alive  

Well the short answer is that technically anything the plot demands can happen.

 

From a narrative perspective, I think the theory is that Snoke knew Ren was having a crisis and ultimately planned to kill him.  Snoke wanted to use that to have him "kill" him, and give into hate and go full Sith.  As such, Snoke would have rigged up his force ghost to do a neat cutting in half trick.

 

I'd file such a thing away in the "possible, but needs explanation" bucket.  That is, if Snoke just ****in' shows up in IX, no explanation, that's...uh, a problem, and he'd be better off staying dead than doing that.  But given a proper explanation (whether it was a force ghost that got bisected or it was actually him but he force ghosts into dudes) and some decent writing, ("I sensed in you the resolve that all Sith feel in that moment.  For I felt it too, all those years ago when I slayed Darth Tenebrous.  The resolve to become a true Sith Lord.  And so...I let you fulfill your destiny.") it could work quite nicely.

[justice98]

This was the first time in 40 years of these movies that I can remember that anybody ever mentioned fuel. Who knew the plot of the movie was gonna revolve around running out of gas.

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Kylo and Rey are the best things about this new trilogy and they are some of the best things about the entire series. He is way more engaging than Vader was thru this point in his story. 

 

He doesn’t have to be pure evil to be a good villain. 

 

He reminds me of Haden Christianson in episode 3.

[justice98]

Finn doesnt seem to have a place anymore. His only real value to the resistance is having been a First Order janitor. So every movie is gonna be "if I can get inside X, I know where Y is".

His story arc felt inconsequential.

 

I guess in 9, he'll finally stop trying to quit. But as a part of the resistance, his value seems dubious.

 

[DogofWar1]

Two quick questions, and I was looking in the movie but might've missed it, but who/what was the string the First Order used to track them through hyperspace, and two, was BDT actually the haker they sought or just a random hacker guy?  I kept looking for little narrative queues on both and kept not seeing them but it certainly is possible I missed a line here or there that explained it.