Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread [SPOILERS ALLOWED!]

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Finn was useless in this movie. I can’t believe they couldn’t find a better use of him and a central “time running out” sub plot than sending him off to some casino planet where it didn’t even matter anyway because he failed to do what he planned on and got almost everyone killed. They’d have been better served sitting there the entire time and using the escape pods without a rat to tell the first order. When an entire 50 minutes of a movie and character ends up being pointless, it’s bad writing. 

 

And really, they should have killed off Leia at the beginning. Kylo backing down and then her dying anyway would have been a nice twist. Her surviving in space and then force flying back into the ship immediately took me out of the movie. It was ridiculous. Would have been much better served for Kylo to just end her there out of his control and he can struggle with that more. Adds to his character . This did nothing but make me cringe 

 

 

I loved everything about Kylo and Rey. They owned the movie as they did TFA. I loved that Rey has no special parents and that it set them up to go against each other in 9 with kylo leading the First Order being the big bad and Rey being the last Jedi. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

Also loved Luke’s final battle and moments. The legend of Luke skywalker was talked about a lot in this movie. And Poe makes the comment, “we are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down.”

 

They have already spread word of Luke standing up against an entire FO army and beating it as shown by the last scene. The fire has spread as the legend grows. This is making a god bleed, inspiring hope and building a new rebellion. Thought that was very well done. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Can't say enough about how awesome Kylo and Rey were. Their back to back fight against Snoke’s bodyguards was pretty sweet too. 

 

Kylo is is going to be really powerful in the next one having given in to his hatred 

[Mournblade]

31 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Finn was useless in this movie. I can’t believe they couldn’t find a better use of him and a central “time running out” sub plot than sending him off to some casino planet where it didn’t even matter anyway because he failed to do what he planned on and got almost everyone killed. They’d have been better served sitting there the entire time and using the escape pods without a rat to tell the first order. When an entire 50 minutes of a movie and character ends up being pointless, it’s bad writing. 

 

And really, they should have killed off Leia at the beginning. Kylo backing down and then her dying anyway would have been a nice twist. Her surviving in space and then force flying back into the ship immediately took me out of the movie. It was ridiculous. Would have been much better served for Kylo to just end her there out of his control and he can struggle with that more. Adds to his character . This did nothing but make me cringe 

 

 

I loved everything about Kylo and Rey. They owned the movie as they did TFA. I loved that Rey has no special parents and that it set them up to go against each other in 9 with kylo leading the First Order being the big bad and Rey being the last Jedi. 

 

Yeah what were thinking with that Leia scene. That was Prequels laughable. 

17 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Can't say enough about how awesome Kylo and Rey were. Their back to back fight against Snoke’s bodyguards was pretty sweet too. 

 

Kylo is is going to be really powerful in the next one having given in to his hatred 

 

Driver might get an Oscar nomination that performance was so awesome.

[Fergasun]

I think this movie gave us one of the worst scenes ever in Star Wars.  Yes it is "Star Wars" where things happen according to the rules of another galaxy... but Leia getting forced back into the ship, whether known or unknown was the stupidest thing I've ever seen.  Jar-Jar Binks level of stupidity.  So many of the scenes / subplots (like the whole casino thing) really annoyed me (also the Finn fighting Captain Phasma).  Oh, you are going to be executed, but then all of a sudden everyone magically disappears as if there is was a "kills you if you are first order" bomb that went off. 

 

In total, I enjoyed Rogue One and Episode VII better than this.

 

At the same time the connection between Rey and Kylo was fantastic, as was just about all of their scenes together.  I loved the different versions of how Kylo destroyed the new Jedi temple (from a certain point of view) were shown.  I love the story of the rebellion and ultimately the Rose-Finn subplot of (the rebellion is about for for what you love, not chasing after in hatred) -- even if they were put in some dumb situations.  I loved the fitting end of Luke Skywalker -- although I wish they would have been able to fit Obi Wan and Yoda in there.  

 

Don't like the unanswered questions -- who is Snoke -- was he a secret apprentice of Vader?  That's the only thing that makes sense. 

 

Oh, and was that Captain Rex (white haired guy) on the final planet battle? 

 

   

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I agree I enjoyed RO and TFA more than this but I think I got y money’s worth simply for Kylo and Rey. They are both my two favorite characters in the series. I think both enhanced each other in this movie and each toward their true power. Their acceptance of each other was part of that and it seems both can channel light and dark as needed. 

 

My biggest gripe is that the mysteries were just completely ignored. Snoke, Luke’s past etc. 

 

also, I would really appreciate an explanation of how Maz ended up with Anakins lightsaber after Kylo clearly has it when he defeats Luke. Speaking of which, why was she in this movie anyway? That was just pointless, the entire codebreaker thing was tooo. They really could have used that time to explore some of the mysteries while still allowing the “fight for what you love not against what what you hate” and rebellion inspiration stuff 

[NoCalMike]

Pretty much echo all the sentiments on Snoke.  I have no idea why they killed him off without any real information about who he was, where he came from, how he became such a master of using the force, and just what the hell is goal was in all of this.  

 

Kylo...I just don't know.  Is he really supposed to be THE villain of episode 9? I'm sorry, but I just don't feel like he comes off as the main event. He still feels like someone in training who should be under an actual master.  Same with Rey.  To me their battles feel more like a 90's teen angst playlist then the battle of the light side versus the darkside of the force. 

 

The entire Casino world side adventure was a waste of time. I actually like Benicio Del Toro's thief character himself, but it took a lot of meandering and running time to introduce him.

 

If there was one major gripe of TFA it was that it followed ANH just about beat for beat.  With TLJ it felt like a lot of decisions and plot points were written specifically just to say "see, we aren't going to be just like ESB" 

 

My friend put it best, the movie was okay, but it was missing the "Luke, I am your father" moment/revelation. 

[shakinaiken]

So there's a quick scene, towards the end, of Finn opening the drawer's to reveal the ancient Jedi texts, right? Means Yoda was trolling Luke. I like it. 

 

"There's nothing in that tree that Rey does not already have."  ... or something like that. Really liked that scene. Especially since they used the puppet( with some CG enhancement). 

[Gallen5862]

 

[Gallen5862]

 

[Gallen5862]

 

[Bacon]

I loved this ****ing movie. I see a lot of people don't, in fact it's getting a lot of fan hate over the enormous narrative risks and outright sacrilege in the film. 

 

But hey, look, you know why I watch these movies? Because of that swirly little feeling in your stomach that you get when you come into contact with a good adventure. It's a rarity in life, but a major part of what makes for a good Star Wars movie. Rogue One and the prequels generally lacked it, but the new trilogy has it in spades.

 

I have so much I want to say about individual aspects of this film and I'm sure I'll talk about all of them eventually, but suffice it to say that I got what I wanted out of the experience. As with TFA, the acting and direction was at a high enough level that I could get swept away by the universe itself. There were plenty of visually appealing scenes, the finest among them being the final act aerial battle with the gorgeous splashes of crimson salt, as well as typically strong fight choreogoraphy. 

 

The story itself had some similarities to Empire but took enough chances to maintain credibility and had a few nice little twists. Rian Johnson seemed to have fun throwing away and burning the mythology at times while embracing it at others. He was a good directorial choice for this particular film. 

 

Unfortunately, his dialogue was not so good. Generally it was fine, and most of the comedy landed, but oh boy there were some stinkers, especially during the final act. This is an action franchise, sure, but you don't need to write everything like Schwarzenegger is going to be delivering it. Then there's Leia's ALL HOPE IS LOST, THE FINAL SPARK HAS BEEN EXTINGUISHED right before the day is saved...come the **** on, Disney. Give us the smallest bit of credit. Yoda's excellent talk with Luke just about made up for those mistakes though. 

 

Acting was mostly strong, agreed with what others have said about Adam Driver; he really is putting this trilogy on his back. Hamill was rock solid too. 

 

There are a lot of little nitpicks that I have in mind, but they don't really matter. This movie made me feel like a little kid at the movie theater and I value that. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

4 hours ago, shakinaiken said:

So there's a quick scene, towards the end, of Finn opening the drawer's to reveal the ancient Jedi texts, right? Means Yoda was trolling Luke. I like it. 

 

"There's nothing in that tree that Rey does not already have."  ... or something like that. Really liked that scene. Especially since they used the puppet( with some CG enhancement). 

 

I didn’t catch that’s what that was. It’s interesting but I doubt it will be further explored. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Didn’t Luke say Kylo took 3 of his students with him? Were those the knights of Ren? What happened to them? 

[codeorama]

As I stated in the other thread, there was a lot that I loved, but a lot that I hated.

I'll give Rian Johnson credit in that he at least went and made a movie that took more chances than The Force Awakens.  I appreciate that.
However, it was still very close to ESB and a little ROTJ thrown in.  

The rebels escaping Hoth...oops, not Hoth... Luke goes to get trained.. I mean Rey... Other hero's stopping off at Cloud City for help... I mean Canto Bight... You get the picture.

The showdown with Snoke was right out of ROTJ, but thankfully had a twist.  Was fully expecting that since Snoke was voted most hated SW character, easily beating out Jar Jar, (who finished third behind Snoke and Dooku, funny because Snoke is a lamer Dooku)

The Final battle was right out of Hoth, even the trench scene, rather than snow, you have salt... so creative.. (sarcasm)

 

Ultimately, I absolutely HATE HATE HATE how Luke was reduced to a coward.  Some might say, no, he came through in the end.. Did he?  He projected himself to stall for time... then died.  We know his X wing was still available to him. Why not go in person.  Basically, the OT tells of an annoying farm boy who rises up and redeems his evil father, only to become a coward in the end.  I don't have a preset notion of what "Should" have happened (in my opinion), but what did happen in this movie sucked. It trivialized the OT. 

 

I do not like Rey, Kylo/Ben, Fenn or Poe. I don't care about them.  

Leia's space walk was so stupid.

Most of the comedy was way out of place.  Was not appropriate/didn't fit in.

Ultimately, TFA and TLJ should NOT have been Episode numbered movies. I personally may have liked them more if they were not.  Disney confirmed that the Episode numbered films are about the Skywalker family.  IMO, that should have been left alone. The first 6 movies did that.  Showed how it started, showed how it ended.  

IMO, Disney used Luke and Han and Leia to get people to the box office and it worked. Yay for them, lots of money.  But ultimately, I think it takes away from the Skywalker story for the benefit of boosting this new era of "hero's" that I just can't give a rats ass about.  Rey is a Mary Sue for sure.  No training. Got none in the movie, yet is super powerful.  Dumb.  Kylo/Ben, just a bad take on what could have been awesome.

Yoda was terrible. Wow was that bad.

What happened to the Knights of Ren?

 

 

 

What I loved about the movie is the way it opens things up for future "Jedi".  The ending was cool. But again, I don't like the film as a Skywalker Saga.

 

I'm hoping that the revelation about Rey's parents is not true.  If she's just some random overpowered force user, that's ridiculous.

 

This is the first time I've ever left a Star Wars movie and didn't want to immediately see it again.  

 

I've never been a really big fan of the EU. I liked some of it and hated others. But, I'll admit,  I really would have enjoyed a new jedi academy led by Luke trilogy.  The EU books got that right.  

 

I have seen ALL of the SW movies on opening night/first showing except IV, when I was 7.  This was the weakest in theater reaction.  Very few of the comedy scenes got laughs.  The ONLY applauds were when luke appeared at the end, but none at the end of the movie.   Very surreal.  

[Bacon]

It's finally sinking in that I just went to a movie where BB-8 hopped in an AT-ST, smashed through a wall and started killing people.

 

Like yeah, I could break down how all this fits into established Star Wars canon, but I'm just happy that the series continues to be at the forefront of quality action/adventure media. 

[TK]

Pretty much fully agree with @codeorama but I want to add this little bit.

 

The second chapter in a trilogy should end on a down note. I really don't feel this one did that with the way it ended. Instead to me it seemed like it ended as if it might be a stand alone flick with hope being restored as the kids were telling the Legend Luke story. 

[codeorama]

3 minutes ago, TK said:

Pretty much fully agree with @codeorama but I want to add this little bit.

 

The second chapter in a trilogy should end on a down note. I really don't feel this one did that with the way it ended. Instead to me it seemed like it ended as if it might be a stand alone flick with hope being restored as the kids were telling the Legend Luke story. 

 

Couldn't agree more... Its like they crammed ESJ and ROTJ in one installment.  It really doesn't make sense, the ending could have been the ending of EP IX, which would then open the door for future jedi.

I've lost all faith in Disney.  I'd rather watch a Jar Jar origin trilogy that the crap they have put out.

 

Personally, I think Disney is counting on the non diehard fans loving these new movies.  Meaning... for example, my best friend loved this one and TFA, but he really had no idea how similar they were to the OT and didn't really know the big picture etc... When I explained the issues I had, he said, "that makes sense, I didn't know those things".

[Bacon]

My theater had a totally different reaction FWIW. Long ovation at the end, plenty of laughs and WHOA WHAT THE **** reactions throughout. Laura Dern splitting that fleet apart was a big hit. It was a very good response overall, similar to TFA, maybe a bit more animated. 

[TK]

2 minutes ago, codeorama said:

 

Couldn't agree more... Its like they crammed ESJ and ROTJ in one installment.

I was thinking the same thing as I watched it. Especially that trench scene on Crait. 

 

And that casino scene, tell me I wasn't the only one waiting for Bond to make an appearance.

 

What's hard to believe is thqat Disney has done so well with the animated Rebels show, yet when it comes to the actual films.....

 

 

[codeorama]

4 minutes ago, TK said:

I was thinking the same thing as I watched it. Especially that trench scene on Crait. 

 

And that casino scene, tell me I wasn't the only one waiting for Bond to make an appearance.

 

What's hard to believe is thqat Disney has done so well with the animated Rebels show, yet when it comes to the actual films.....

 

 

 

Rebels and the Clone Wars cartoons are amazing. Love them.  

Also, the whole casino thing was pointless.  In the grand scheme, it could have been cut and saved 30 min from the movie.

 

[TK]

, 

 

I said, Blue milk, shaken, not stirred. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

43 minutes ago, codeorama said:

Why not go in person.

 

because he would have been blasted to Endor by 1,000 blasters. Projecting himself there allowed him to be unbeatable and stall while also growing his enormous legend again, sparking those to the rebellion cause. 

44 minutes ago, codeorama said:

Most of the comedy was way out of place.  Was not appropriate/didn't fit in.

 

Agree with this. Some moments didn't need comedy and it felt too lighthearted in more serious spots. Basically they marvel'd this movie in a lot of ways

45 minutes ago, codeorama said:

 Rey is a Mary Sue for sure.  No training. Got none in the movie, yet is super powerful.  Dumb.  Kylo/Ben, just a bad take on what could have been awesome.

 

She is already proficient in hand to hand combat. All of her saber skills mimic her staff fighting. Luke showed her how to accept and harness the force. It was every bit as believable as the garbage 5 minute training Luke got in 4/5. She can't just be a strong force user like Kenobi was or Palpatine etc were? I'm glad she isn't special and i don't have a problem moving away from the Skywalkers in general. In an entire galaxy, that it all revolves around 1-2 people and one specific family is kinda silly. Kylo takes care of the Skywalker bloodline anyway

 

I don't know what anyone couldn't love about Kylo. He has emotions. Sorry i guess he is emo. I think his character is fantastic. 

[codeorama]

15 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

because he would have been blasted to Endor by 1,000 blasters. Projecting himself there allowed him to be unbeatable and stall while also growing his enormous legend again, sparking those to the rebellion cause. 

 

Agree with this. Some moments didn't need comedy and it felt too lighthearted in more serious spots. Basically they marvel'd this movie in a lot of ways

 

She is already proficient in hand to hand combat. All of her saber skills mimic her staff fighting. Luke showed her how to accept and harness the force. It was every bit as believable as the garbage 5 minute training Luke got in 4/5. She can't just be a strong force user like Kenobi was or Palpatine etc were? I'm glad she isn't special and i don't have a problem moving away from the Skywalkers in general. In an entire galaxy, that it all revolves around 1-2 people and one specific family is kinda silly. Kylo takes care of the Skywalker bloodline anyway

 

I don't know what anyone couldn't love about Kylo. He has emotions. Sorry i guess he is emo. I think his character is fantastic. 

 

Obi Wan sacrificed himself. 

Luke already went through some basic training with Obi Wan. 

Again.... the movies with episode numbers ARE in fact Skywalker movies. This has been confirmed. It’s not ok to move away from them in these movies. That’s for other movies. They should have never made these episode movies imo. That would have alleviated many of the problems, but Disney wanted to capitalize on the OT characters for the sake of money. 

 

If Anakin or Obi Wan faced the same situation, they would have prevailed. 

Luke dying alone and as a coward destroys everything he was. Making him almost murder Ben took away from who he was. 

[bcl05]

Such a mixed bag of a movie.  I really liked parts, and other parts were so, so bad.  

 

I am in the pro-Adam Driver camp.  I thought the Kylo-Rey connection was effective and convincing, and their brief teamwork in the lightsaber battle with the neo-imperial guards was great.  I like his character arc, though it wasn't really any different than TFA.  

 

I like Rey.  I think Ridley is a fine actress and I find her arc/motivations believable and compelling.  

 

I hated Laura Dern's character (partly because she looked stupid and can't act), but the light-speed through the dreadnaught was pretty awesome.  

 

I found Luke's training of Rey to be compelling and cool, but I though the astral projection/force hologram thing to be dumb.  We haven't seen that power in previous films (at least in living people, right?) so to be inventing new force powers at this stage seems pretty ham-handed by the scriptwriters.

 

I didn't like the space/speeder fight scenes much.  Usually, those are my favorite parts of SW movies.  Poe taking on a dreadnaught by himself seems far-fetched.  The bombing scene was so, so predictable.  The salt-speeders seemed too rickety to be believable.  The movie did not make the new AT-ATs nearly cool enough or emphasized enough.

 

Leia's post-explosion space float was one of the dumbest (and dumbest looking) things I've ever seen.  Also, Carrie Fisher (RIP) acted less well than a CGI version of her.  She's just bad.  

 

The casino-planet/Benicio del toro storyline felt long and kind of boring.  

 

I thought the movie was really too much of a roller-coaster tonally.  The comedy was funny, but it was an awkward contrast with the serious/dark stuff.  An action movie can be a great comedy (see Avengers, Thor-Ragnarok, etc) or it can be serious and brooding (Logan, Dark Knight, etc), but it can't be both.  Or at least this movie didn't pull it off.

 

The forced/excess cute of the Porgs was dumber than Ewoks.  One time, fine.  But.  So.  Many.  Porgs.  Enough already.  

 

I loved the last scene.  

 

Overall, though, the biggest pleasure of this movie is that it felt like the Star Wars world established in the original trilogy, in a way the prequels never did, for me.  It was fun to be back, and I enjoyed it.  I do think that the craftsmanship of this film is pretty poor (see above), but I still had a blast watching it.