General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

2010.  He had a filibuster proof Senate and full House control when he was elected.  

Newtown happened in 2012.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Newtown happened in 2012.

Right.  Dems didnt care enough about gun violence to do anything to prevent it.  And didnt have the votes to do anything to respond after it.  What's going to change?  You think the Dems are going to get the WH and filibuster proof Senate and House filled with enough antigun Dems to do anything?

 

Screaming at the NRA and the GOP ignores the Dems complicit part of this horror.

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Nah, I truly want a chance to finally hear him out on this (because to be brutally honest, @tshile, I ignore a lot of your posts lately).

 

But all of his takes seem very confusing, so I have some questions I would like addressed, just so I can get to the actual questions I would like to ask

 

After all the times you’ve come in and taken little shots at me despite me not thinking whatever it is you think my views are, you now want to have a conversation?

 

 

theyre in the thread. You don’t want to do the work? Maybe you should act nicer. Just go back to ignoring my posts and thinking you know anything about me. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Right.  Dems didnt care enough about gun violence to do anything to prevent it.  And didnt have the votes to do anything to respond after it.  What's going to change?  You think the Dems are going to get the WH and filibuster proof Senate and House filled with enough antigun Dems to do anything?

 

Screaming at the NRA and the GOP ignores the Dems complicit part of this horror.

You specifically asked about the time AFTER Newtown.

[Kilmer17]

4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You specifically asked about the time AFTER Newtown.

 

You answered it.

[AsburySkinsFan]

6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Right.  Dems didnt care enough about gun violence to do anything to prevent it.  And didnt have the votes to do anything to respond after it.  What's going to change?  You think the Dems are going to get the WH and filibuster proof Senate and House filled with enough antigun Dems to do anything?

 

Screaming at the NRA and the GOP ignores the Dems complicit part of this horror.

But yeah, let's follow this for grins and giggles.

Obama and his fillibuster proof majority shoves massive gun control through prior to passing the ACA.

What would have happened as a result...IF....the laws managed to pass SCOTUS?

Here's a hint...Obama wouldn't have gotten a second term and the midterms would have seen a veto proof majority for GOP in both Houses which would have forced gun deregulation in 2010 and Newtown still would have happened in 2012.

So yeah, it's the Democrat's fault.

bull****

4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

You answered it.

and you are misappropriating blame because you apparently think the GOP would have just allowed Democrat gun laws to remain on the books after sweeping back both houses. Hell, ANY laws that the Dems might have pushed through in '09-10 would have been held up in the courts before they could have ever gone into effect, and then the GOP would have reversed them all anyways.

Not a single life would have been saved.

But, please go on telling us how the Dems are responsible.

[Mooka]

13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

2010.  He had a filibuster proof Senate and full House control when he was elected.  

 

Went over this before but that period was only a few months due to Kennedy passing away, which they used to pass the ACA.

 

 

[Kilmer17]

3 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

But yeah, let's follow this for grins and giggles.

Obama and his fillibuster proof majority shoves massive gun control through prior to passing the ACA.

What would have happened as a result...IF....the laws managed to pass SCOTUS?

Here's a hint...Obama wouldn't have gotten a second term and the midterms would have seen a veto proof majority for GOP in both Houses which would have forced gun deregulation in 2010 and Newtown still would have happened in 2012.

So yeah, it's the Democrat's fault.

bull****

So now try and see what I am trying to say-

NONE OF THAT HAS CHANGED.  The same result will happen to any Dem in the future.

[tshile]

12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Dems didnt care enough about gun violence to do anything to prevent it.

They’re stuck because the polls don’t reflect a good environment for passing gun control. 

 

sure, people support generic things like make it harder for bad guys to get guns... but when you get into specifics support falls off quickly. 

 

Even if they do care it’s tricky politically to run on. 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Mooka said:

 

Went over this before but that period was only a few months due to Kennedy passing away, which they used to pass the ACA.

 

 

there is no rule or law preventing multiple pieces of legislation to be enacted at the same time.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

So now try and see what I am trying to say-

NONE OF THAT HAS CHANGED.  The same result will happen to any Dem in the future.

I saw what you were trying it say....it ended with.....

 

15 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Screaming at the NRA and the GOP ignores the Dems complicit part of this horror.

 

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

there is no rule or law preventing multiple pieces of legislation to be enacted at the same time.

....nor rolling all of those bills into one law that reverses every one of them while they are all hung up in the courts.

God what what a colossal waste that all would have been. There would have been no dramatic McCain thumbs down moment, the repeal would have been swift and brutal.

But yeah...Democratic complicity.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

After all the times you’ve come in and taken little shots at me despite me not thinking whatever it is you think my views are, you now want to have a conversation?

 

 

theyre in the thread. You don’t want to do the work? Maybe you should act nicer. Just go back to ignoring my posts and thinking you know anything about me. 

 

See? This is precisely I think this will help. I certainly have no earthly clue what you are about, only what you have shown me.

 

I do admit I've taken several shots at you over the years, every one of them, most people (not you of course) would say you deserved.

 

At any rate,  I'm always willing to have a conversation with people who are straight up, so I'm asking you to be straight up, and tell me what it is you believe in. It doesn't take an essay. Just let it fly. I promise, I will listen to you. You can brieferize it. And I'm already nicer,?. I used to be a lot more hostile towards other posters.

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

I saw what you were trying it say....it ended with.....

 

 

I know.  It's a weird thing to blame everyone involved rather than just the evil right wing boogeymen.

[AsburySkinsFan]

7 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I know.  It's a weird thing to blame everyone involved rather than just the evil right wing boogeymen.

Even those who couldn't have stopped it.

[Kilmer17]

So again I ask- What can the Dems do in the future that they couldnt do before?

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

So again I ask- What can the Dems do in the future that they couldnt do before?

 

They used up their political capital on other issues last time. They may be able to avoid doing that in the future. 

 

But realisticly anything a DEM does with the word gun in it will have heavy hostility toward it by every single repub. The current political climate only exacerbates this. Hell....it may be less possible not than before because of Trump and his minions if you are really honest about it. 

[Kilmer17]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

They used up their political capital on other issues last time. They may be able to avoid doing that in the future. 

 

But realisticly anything a DEM does with the word gun in it will have heavy hostility toward it by every single repub. The current political climate only exacerbates this. Hell....it may be less possible not than before because of Trump and his minions if you are really honest about it. 

This is my point.  Thank you.

 

If anything is to be done about gun violence, it must be lead by Dems who will know they will take a short term political hit for what will eventually be a great thing for our nation.

Obama should have done more to work for serious gun reform after new town.  He should have shamed every single member of Congress over and over and used the bully pulpit to win the issue.  And it would have meant serious Dem losses.  But here we sit years later, and we are further away than we were in 2012.  Opportunity lost, and battle lines are dug deeper.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Kilmer17

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is my point.  Thank you.

 

If anything is to be done about gun violence, it must be lead by Dems who will know they will take a short term political hit for what will eventually be a great thing for our nation.

Agree. Though when that "pendulum" swings back in the blue direction you may see the dems with more power and political capital then ever. Which is maybe a good thing if it happens. Then they may have the ability to do it AND get away with it. I can absolutely see a new Dem generation taking over and giving a big middle finger to the Repubs in the next 10 years. 

 

I dont think it happens immediately after Trump unless he gets a second term. But I can see it happening as a responce to the current abuse of power from the Repubs at some point in the next decade. 

[Jumbo]

good talk 

 

(no, really )

 

i mainly wrestle with how often the wrong humans get shot, scientically speaking

but then i had problematic parenting

mostly from the wolves

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

Agree. Though when that "pendulum" swings back in the blue direction you may see the dems with more power and political capital then ever. Which is maybe a good thing if it happens. Then they may have the ability to do it AND get away with it. I can absolutely see a new Dem generation taking over and giving a big middle finger to the Repubs in the next 10 years. 

 

I dont think it happens immediately after Trump unless he gets a second term. But I can see it happening as a responce to the current abuse of power from the Repubs at some point in the next decade. 

I dont know man.  I think we are becoming less and less interested.  Almost desensitized to it.  We have mass shootings weekly (daily?) and it doesnt dominate the news anymore. It's b or c roll stories.

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Hell....it may be less possible not than before because of Trump and his minions if you are really honest about it. 

No maybe about it, I think it is exponentially harder now than it has been over the last 10 years, and the last 10 years were very difficult for gun control people. 

 

I I keep mentioning Trump and scotus, but you’re right his whole way of doing politics will make it harder as well. 

[Kilmer17]

We've had Dem politicians shot, GOP politicians shot.  Kids murdered.  Mass killings at concerts, events, schools, workplaces etc etc etc.

 

You know what the single common denominator in EVERY one of them?

 

The gun.  Start there. 

[tshile]

23 minutes ago, Llevron said:

They used up their political capital on other issues last time. They may be able to avoid doing that in the future. 

They’re going to use all their political capital going after trump and things trump did. They will conveniently not have enough political capital to do it, and they’ll again feel justified in that approach. 

 

they won’t have enough to do anything about gun control. And even if they did, I doubt whatever they did would pass scotus, and if it was something that didn’t even get challenged to go to scotus I’m guessing most of you would consider it a nothing burger. 

 

I realize this feels like we’re blaming the wrong people, but we’re not. No one has really come to the defense of the GOP in this thread in a very long time. A random person that gets chased away here and there, but that’s it. There’s really no one arguing the role the GOP and NRA have played in this. 

[Jumbo]

fwiw---much of the "mental health community" wants zip to do with being used as a device in this stuff and they don't even want to try to explain why (which is why i don't)

 

moving on---i  really like guns---yes it's the availability--which includes numbers--and the gop being so in tune with the nra and the actual gun nuts and the culture at large that add to the challenge

 

the dems didn't do it in their brief window with Obama and that's worth noting for reflection, but not overplaying, and only if not serving to deflect.

 

what can we do from here on?

 

there is little comparison in level of resistance to any kind of gun restrictions in the two parties. so it will definitely have to be the dems, obviously, doing the lifting. will they? they promised the parkland students. and they still have to take care of their daca folk, too, and a ton of other messes just trump-related. the dems will have to multi task like mother****ers even if they do win big in 2020.

 

and in the future, at some point, i'd expect someone is going to have to remove some guns from some folks, voluntarily or otherwise, one way or another. 

 

 

[tshile]

They’re not excited to be shouldered with a ton of responsibility with no resources and expected to fix a problem that probably can’t be fixed? Expectations and parameters set by folks with no clue about the guns, the mental health issues, or even how laws are created?

 

sounds like a bunch of sissies. 

 

(  )

 

((  ))