stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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If Kirk leaves, I am mixed on Mayfield but regardless I am sticking to the idea, he's not dropping to 13

 

http://nfltraderumors.co/baker-mayfield-squarely-play-browns-no-1-overall/

 

According to Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports, Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield is “squarely in play”for the Browns at No. 1 overall in this year’s draft after a strong showing at the Senior Bowl this week.

Robinson says that Mayfield’s skills and on-field mentality have left multiple evaluators believing the Browns could be headed for a debate between Mayfield and USC QB Sam Darnold for the top pick.

A lot of what he is as a player fits with the mentality of [Cleveland Brown’s general manager] John Dorsey,” a source tells Robinson. “Just his mental makeup as a player, John believes in building around those kinds of guys. … I think he’s a strong candidate [for the top pick] after this week.”

Robinson says that people who have worked for Dorsey in the past have made a strong case for why Mayfield could be the first player off the board including:

  • Dorsey’s close friend Scot McCloughan going on record that he would take Mayfield as the centerpiece to build around.
  • Sources who know Dorsey have suggested to Robinson that Mayfield is very much in that wheelhouse for has the mindset Dorsey will be looking for in Cleveland.
  • Robinson says that Mayfield offers accuracy and mobility, which is something Dorsey values in quarterbacks.
  • A source who knows Dorsey has worked with players who’ve had off-the-field issues in the past such as Brett Favre while they were in Green Bay together.
Edited by Skinsinparadise

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When it comes to scouting before the  NFL Draft and giving hints to the media or how they get there info on the reports of which teams are interested in that type of player is nothing but bluffing.  We could interview a QB and spend some time with him, but it could be cause of a bluff to throw other teams off cause we really are interested in another prospect.  QB for example,  we interviewed Rudolph to show the public we have intrest,  but  we really want Josh Allen. We might want Rudolph but majority of the time its a bluff. Im not stating that as a  fact but as an example. Look at Lamar Jacksons draft stock now,  its a late 1st to 2nd round. You hear reports of where  what round he might be drafted, but once Pro day and the combine goes through he will be top 15 the latest.  If Patrick Mahomes can go top 15 , then Lamar Jackson will definitely be in the top 15.

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I like Mayfield as a player a lot more than as a person. I don't doubt his leadership, but the extra stuff is way too much to invest a first rounder in for a qb. I'd be worried about him getting suspended, arrested, having off field issues, etc. Too be thinking about first overall for him is too much in my opinion. 

 

That said, I'm not sold on Allen, Darnold or Rosen. For all the talk about this being a great qb class, it kinda reminds me of 2011 when we were linked to so many qbs but went with Kerrigan instead. I wouldn't mind Mason, but he's still a risk, how was his competition, could he work in a pro offense, how are his immeasurables, etc.

 

I've heard that some of the lower round guys haven't looked as good this week. That could mean they drop in the draft and become available later. Honestly, i don't see the real difference between the top tier guys and lower guys other than attention. 

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The more film I watch of him and read about him the more I'm liking Kyle Lauletta from Richmond as a mid round pick. Yeah he played in a meh conference but he has some really outstanding traits and by all accounts he's looked good when stacked up against the big conference guys in Senior Bowl practices.

 

He has very good footwork and uses it to elude the rush well...very quick to reset his feet as well when he has to avoid rushers, excellent timing...especially on out routes where he'll throw well before his receiver makes his break, great anticipation when throwing guys open, compact and smooth throwing motion, very good at manipulating and freezing safeties and LBs with his eyes, from everything I've read has a very high football IQ and is a big time student of the game, good arm...not elite by any means but he can make all the throws including intermediate and deep outs from the far hash.

 

Probably not a day 1 NFL starter as he'll likely need a bit more time to adjust to the talent level in the NFL but IMO could end up being the steal of the draft.

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It's not looking like Mayfield will be available at 13. Along with the article above saying he's in play at #1, apparently the Jet's will pick him if he's there at #6. Both Eric Galko @OptimumScouting on twitter and Pritchard & Cecil (1/26 hour 1 at link below) are saying the Jets are "strongly considering" Mayfield.

 

http://1043thefan.com/pritchard-cecil/

 

This may be good for us, as it would take what I consider the biggest threat to Kirk on the transition tag off the table.

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3 hours ago, Tay said:

It's not looking like Mayfield will be available at 13. Along with the article above saying he's in play at #1, apparently the Jet's will pick him if he's there at #6. Both Eric Galko @OptimumScouting on twitter and Pritchard & Cecil (1/26 hour 1 at link below) are saying the Jets are "strongly considering" Mayfield.

 

http://1043thefan.com/pritchard-cecil/

 

This may be good for us, as it would take what I consider the biggest threat to Kirk on the transition tag off the table.

 

Seems like the hot team relating to Kirk keeps changing depending on the source.  First it was Denver.  Then Cleveland.  Now the Jets.  Reading the NY papers they seem to think Mayfield might drop to them at #6.  I just peaked at the Denver Post and they too have heavy Mayfield coverage.   I just read an article about how its possible that the Browns might take Barkley and take their chances a QB they like lands at #4.   Looking like its going to be a wild ride.

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So funny, Mayock said at the start of the Senior Bowl that Mayfield was the perfect Jay Gruden type QB....

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I know the game doesn't mean much, but Mike White looks pretty good out there. 

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Mike White and Lauletta have both looked good at Senior Bowl. Lauletta has particularly impressed me - anyone know where he's pegged to go in the draft?

Edited by UKskins

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34 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Mike White and Lauletta have both looked good at Senior Bowl. Lauletta has particularly impressed me - anyone know where he's pegged to go in the draft?

 

Pre Senior bowl he was late rounder (6/7) but that is likely to change.  A real grinder for sure who was going to be a sleeper.

 

He won the MVP of the SB.

Edited by HigSkin

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37 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Mike White and Lauletta have both looked good at Senior Bowl. Lauletta has particularly impressed me - anyone know where he's pegged to go in the draft?

 

Yeah, agree with @HigSkin...he was a late rounder at first but his stock will rise, as will White's. They're both really good QBs who display some NFL traits that I haven't seen out of most of the "top" QBs in this draft, especially the subtle stuff. I think they're both mid-rounders now. I could see either going in the 3rd at this point, to be honest. Yeah, both from small conference teams but I think that gets a bit too much attention vs their actual traits as quarterbacks. Yes, neither will be day 1 NFL starters due to adjustment to the bigger talent level of defenses, but I think either/both could end up being absolute steals down the road. I'd be absolutely fine with doing DL/RB/BPA in the 1st, OG/RB/BPA 2nd and then snagging one of those guys in the 3rd and letting them sit and adjust for a while. Unfortunately I don't really see that level of patience from this FO. 

Edited by mistertim
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16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, agree with @HigSkin...he was a late rounder at first but his stock will rise, as will White's. They're both really good QBs who display some NFL traits that I haven't seen out of most of the "top" QBs in this draft, especially the subtle stuff. I think they're both mid-rounders now. I could see either going in the 3rd at this point, to be honest. Yeah, both from small conference teams but I think that gets a bit too much attention vs their actual traits as quarterbacks. Yes, neither will be day 1 NFL starters due to adjustment to the bigger talent level of defenses, but I think either/both could end up being absolute steals down the road. I'd be absolutely fine with doing DL/RB/BPA in the 1st, OG/RB/BPA 2nd and then snagging one of those guys in the 3rd and letting them sit and adjust for a while. Unfortunately I don't really see that level of patience from this FO. 

 

Mike White was a guy Skins scouts spent some time with.  He was on a JP Finley podcast about it and said it was his favorite interview because they talked football, something he loves to do and not all about his family life.  He also said Doug Williams dropped in and made him kind of star struck, couldn't believe the size of Doug's hands.  LMAO

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4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, agree with @HigSkin...he was a late rounder at first but his stock will rise, as will White's. They're both really good QBs who display some NFL traits that I haven't seen out of most of the "top" QBs in this draft, especially the subtle stuff. I think they're both mid-rounders now. I could see either going in the 3rd at this point, to be honest. Yeah, both from small conference teams but I think that gets a bit too much attention vs their actual traits as quarterbacks. Yes, neither will be day 1 NFL starters due to adjustment to the bigger talent level of defenses, but I think either/both could end up being absolute steals down the road. I'd be absolutely fine with doing DL/RB/BPA in the 1st, OG/RB/BPA 2nd and then snagging one of those guys in the 3rd and letting them sit and adjust for a while. Unfortunately I don't really see that level of patience from this FO. 

 

That was my thinking - if/when Kirk walks, one of these could be a low risk/high reward pick. Lauletta in particular showed some really nice stuff - Wentz like escapability under pressure, outstanding ball placement, no fear darts to covered guys.... I haven't seen all that much of them outside of tonight but if Kirk is gone (which I think he pretty much is at this point) then I'd be happy to use the money to build up the roster and draft one of these guys. The small conference thing isn't all that big a deal imo - We drafted Adam Gettis two spots before Josh Norman in the 5th round of 2012 draft. Josh is a small school guy that's done OK (alright different position, but the point stands about small conference not being a definitive factor).

 

I agree though - don't see our FO showing that level of patience.
 

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Unfortunately I don't really see that level of patience from this FO. 

 

As you know, I want Kirk but if I played out a scenario where he's gone.  I'd try like the devil to leverage a trade.  Lets take Denver for example.  If they had their franchise QB in Kirk, what's the difference for them as for swapping their #5 pick for the #13.  #5 is better of course but if you got your QB not that big of a deal anymore.  Barkley is likely gone by then, Chubb, too.  You still likely get a marquee player at #13. 

 

Then at #5 the Redskins probably has a shot at whichever guy falls, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen.  

 

I can't see them running with McCoy and a project at QB.  I think they got to be more aggressive.  For two reasons.  1. As you said its not in their nature to be patient.  2. As Cooley has pointed out if Kirk balls elsewhere and Plan B fails even if its just temporary -- its a PR nightmare.

 

For these reasons, I see them being aggressive.  Heck they'd save a little face too if they leveraged a trade for Kirk. As Laconfora said if Kirk goes and they get nothing for him than just a comp pick -- its an epic failure. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Why even swap? If they believe they're getting their answer at QB what's the difference between spending the #5 overall pick on a QB (which they likely would do sans getting Kirk) and giving it up for a QB in a trade? Having #5 overall and #13 overall would be pretty nice. The FO could get a top QB prospect at #5 and then go BPA at #13.

 

But yeah, I agree with your point @Skinsinparadise...the FO will probably be very aggressive. It's too bad because I honestly believe that Lauletta and/or White could very well end up being much better NFL QBs than the guys picked at the top of the draft a couple years down the road.

 

 

EDIT: I didn't get to watch the Senior Bowl, but just saw some stats and highlights. Lauletta absolutely killed it. I think he's a solid 3rd rounder now and could potentially go as high as the 2nd.

Edited by mistertim

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31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Why even swap? If they believe they're getting their answer at QB what's the difference between spending the #5 overall pick on a QB (which they likely would do sans getting Kirk) and giving it up for a QB in a trade? Having #5 overall and #13 overall would be pretty nice. The FO could get a top QB prospect at #5 and then go BPA at #13.

 

 

That would be even better of course.  But the idea of the Eagles leveraging a top half of the first round, first round pick. and a 4th for Bradford whereas I am reading they might lose Kirk for nothing or close enough -- I find that infuriating.

 

If it has to go down where Kirk leaves -- the best hope I gather in this case is that the team he wants to go to is Denver.  Denver would benefit from working out a cap friendly deal with Kirk versus going ape with a big bid on the transition tag and or having to deal with cap rich bidders competing like the Jets, Browns.  

 

I haven't paid attention to Mike White aside from watching today's Senior Bowl, ditto Lauletta. On an aside, I saw somewhere the Dolphins like White a lot and think they can get him in the third round.

 

IMO when the FO replaced Scot with in effect nobody and tried to sell everyone that things are even better now with Bruce now firmly in charge and with an elevated Doug Williams -- they underestimated the fatigue of the fan base.   It was a PR bomb. 

 

Cooley who admits is friendly with Bruce said recently that Bruce knows he is the villain with the fan base.  I don't think its lost on Dan-Bruce that there is some malaise and distrust with the fan base.  You combine that with stands not being full last year and all time low TV ratings -- now, they got a pickle.  If they wanted to dump Kirk, they could have sold it much easier with Scot still here or if he was replaced with a Dorsey type.   

 

I doubt they missed the 980-106.7 polls which show Kirk is popular and Bruce is scrooge.  That's the backdrop here.  I am not saying this here to take shots at Bruce. I can do that on other threads.  But my point is the politics of all of this is likely going to be a big variable.    I agree with Czaben's column on this, if Kirk is gone, they need a splash.  They boxed themselves into that corner.  In short, this is a bad PR time for them to preach patience from the fan base.  So I don't think they will dare to try.

 

That means going after one of the top guys.  I could be wrong.   Mayfield clearly would be the splashiest of the bunch.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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if Kirk leaves and the front office makes decisions to sell tickets and not to win games then it's a fail. But i don't see that happening. I could see us drafting a qb early. The thing i like about this front office is that they seem set on their values of players. it hurt us with some, but with others like Brown we wound up getting him. same for Pryor. I think that we'd go with Colt, a young guy to compete with him and possibly a draft pick. but if we can't get the guy we want in the draft, it wouldn't surprise me to see Morris on the active roster. 

 

My guess is that we don't go qb in the first unless one falls ( which they never do). I could see us going Mason in the second if he's there (i do wonder though if we'd pull a Campbell/Rodgers/R. Foster type trade up if he's there at the bottom of the first). Otherwise i could see us with a late rounder and Morris to compete in camp. 

 

I think it'd be something like Colt and somebody under 30 to compete for that starting spot, i also wouldn't put it past them to trade for somebody Jay likes. McCarron for example. 

 

I think Bruce is out on fan opinion of him. People say that the press conference and the leaks show this but i see those add the exception rather than the norm. The front office has been quiet since RG3 and MS left. But with the Scot firing, we didn't see the McShay hiring our another big name, and it's cost him a lot if bad press in terms of media and fans here and on twitter regularly calling him names. I could be reading it wrong but i think they'd go young I'd Kirk walks. 

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2 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Hate to be that guy. Please take this back to the Kirk thread. Thanks.

 

This is draft related. Thanks.

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from DJ, yeah as for Penny, i haven't watched him during the season, the write ups describe him as a power guy but the dude looked fast today.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000911375/article/seven-nfl-draft-prospects-who-helped-themselves-in-senior-bowl

Richmond QB Kyle Lauletta and Western Kentucky QB Mike White

Obviously, Allen and Mayfield were the biggest stars this week, but Lauletta and White were the two biggest winners of Saturday. With all the attention on the other QBs, they stepped up in a big way and showed they have starting traits. They possess plenty of poise, anticipation, timing and accuracy.

White looked like he had the game MVP award locked up with his outstanding play early on (8-11, 128 yards, TD), but Lauletta entered in the second half and swiped it from him, completing 8-of-12 passes for 198 yards and 3 TDs.

Marcus Davenport, DE, UTSA

 

Davenport wasn't very effective in the first two days of practices here, and some people didn't really give him much of a chance to adjust to the environment at the Senior Bowl before criticizing him. He clearly needed that adjustment period because he was unstoppable late in the week of practices, and it carried over to the game. He recorded a half sack and scored a TD on a fumble recovery.

DJ Chark, WR, LSU

 

There was zero buzz on Chark coming into this week, but he had everyone talking by the end of the week. His numbers were outstanding (game-high 160 yards on 5 catches) -- everyone can see that -- but it shouldn't go overlooked that he also was good on the coverage teams, covering kicks.

 

Rashaad Penny, RB, San Diego State

 

Penny showed that he has plenty of burst, racking up 137 total yards (64 rushing, 73 receiving). His 73-yard TD catch showed the versatility that he brings to the table. In a year where we have so many good underclassmen running backs, he had to make a splash in this game to stay relevant. He definitely did that. I think he's positioned himself as a second-rounder at this point in the process.

 

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is draft related. Thanks.

 

Typically you get a sense around the combine about what goes down.  But I suspect Kirk is going to be VERY relevant to the draft.    He's the biggest chess piece I can recall this team has had in recent memory before the draft.   If the trade goes down with Denver like that.  I wouldn't be surprised if Indy tries to barter their pick.  They are the one team in the top 5 who doesn't need a QB.    You got the Jets at 6.  Buffalo and the Cards potentially interested in trading up.    If they traded up to #3, I'd consider Barkely if he's still there.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The senior bowl today is interesting because i was hearing that White and Allen were having bad weeks, but they performed today. 

 

Yeah, looks like Allen had a rough 1st half but played really well in the 2nd. The touch TD pass he tossed to Tyler Conklin in the corner of the end zone was absolutely beautiful. Was really nice to see since it seemed that touch was something Allen was knocked on a bit, though probably unfairly since guys with cannon arms tend to get that generalization a lot. 

Edited by mistertim

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49 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I could see us going Mason in the second if he's there (i do wonder though if we'd pull a Campbell/Rodgers/R. Foster type trade up if he's there at the bottom of the first).

 

I've seen him in some mocks (not all) in the first round -mid to late.  Some of the guys doing mocks at least claim they are doing it based on buzz they are hearing.  Sometimes that buzz is wrong.  But as for the QB position specifically -- guys tend to rise not fall.   So my guess is if they want Rudolph they got to take him at 13 or trade down a little.  The Cardinals are the wildcard IMO behind us.  And I read an article that Arians (granted he's gone now) liked Rudolph and Mayfield.  So I wonder if Rudolph slips past the Cardinals.  Though again FA will be the big wildcard. 

 

If Kirk is gone, I bet they go as big as they can in the draft.   I am saying they shoot for a name guy they do believe in.   My point is if they leverage a top 5 pick for Kirk -- i really can't see them passing up aiming high at QB.   Only other thing I can see them doing is taking Barkley.  But I suspect Barkley will be gone with the first two picks. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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