RemoveSnyder Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 hours ago, visionary said: That's an interesting tactic. Imply a Sanders Russian collusion conspiracy theory and label any pro Sanders tweets online as the work of Russian bots. I mean it's not like Sanders supporters have anything to be upset about re: 2016 rigged nomination / re: iowa FS. It was such a winning strategy, worked so well for the last 3 1/2 years against trump. Mueller report -- nothing Steele dossier -- nothing impeachment -- nothing American tax payer dollars -- jizz factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said: That's an interesting tactic. Imply a Sanders Russian collusion conspiracy theory and label any pro Sanders tweets online as the work of Russian bots. I mean it's not like Sanders supporters have anything to be upset about re: 2016 rigged nomination / re: iowa FS. It was such a winning strategy, worked so well for the last 3 1/2 years against trump. Mueller report -- nothing Steele dossier -- nothing impeachment -- nothing American tax payer dollars -- jizz factory Lot of people think the "rigged" DNC nomination process in 2016 hurt moderate Dems and helped Sanders. I actually wish the dumbass tweets are Russian bots instead of Sanders supporters because the only thing that is severely testing my resolution to vote for anyone against Trump is sheer idiocy of the Bernie Bros. Tell me. Given that none of Sanders' major policy proposals have a snowball's chance in hell of passing in the next four years, what will President Sanders do when Congress (joined by a healthy contingent of Dems) slams the door in his face? Was AOC trying to soften the ground for an eventual capitulation by the Democratic Socialist Party? Or are we gonna be stuck for four years of Uncle Bernie ranting about how he can't get anything done because the political system is rigged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Bernie is pretty pragmatic. He voted for the ACA without hesitation even though it wasn’t single player because it still improved the lives of Americans. I’m not worried about him if he needs to compromise on some of his proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, bearrock said: I actually wish the dumbass tweets are Russian bots instead of Sanders supporters because the only thing that is severely testing my resolution to vote for anyone against Trump is sheer idiocy of the Bernie Bros. Yeah, I'm tryng to hold off on just smearing anybody who supports Bernie, by reminding myself that the conspiracy theory kooks I'm reading might be Russian bots who are getting an early start on trying to program actual Bernie supporters. (And to, possibly, poison non-Bernie supporters into hating Bernie because of his "supporters".) Although, it wasn't Bernie bots who demanded a recount of IA. It was the Bernie and Pete campaigns. The two people who weren't satisfied with being tied for 1st place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Bernie is pretty pragmatic. He voted for the ACA without hesitation even though it wasn’t single player because it still improved the lives of Americans. I’m not worried about him if he needs to compromise on some of his proposals. Then it is totally disingenuous for him and his supporters to turn Dem primary into an ideological purity test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, bearrock said: Then it is totally disingenuous for him and his supporters to turn Dem primary into an ideological purity test. Next you're going to say that you have a problem with a political candidate who is trying (or at least his spokesmen are) to get people to vote for him by telling them not to worry about the signature issue of his campaign, because it won't really happen, it's just a campaign promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Larry said: Next you're going to say that you have a problem with a political candidate who is trying (or at least his spokesmen are) to get people to vote for him by telling them not to worry about the signature issue of his campaign, because it won't really happen, it's just a campaign promise. Shouldn't we all have a problem with that? I'm not going to be the person who tells a on the fence moderate to vote for Warren despite thinking her ideas are trash and thinks they are worse than four more years of Trump because chances are they will never come to pass. If you think a candidate's proposals are worse than Trump's second term, don't vote for the candidate. I also don't have as a big a problem with candidates arguing that their pie in the sky idea is better than the other pie in the sky idea. That's the nature of campaigning, though a monumental waste of time. Where I have the biggest problem is someone posing a will never pass policy proposal as a purity test against those advocating for a compromise solution, fully knowing it will not pass and that the candidate will have to compromise if they ever become POTUS. That's craven, bold faced deceit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Bernie is pretty pragmatic. He voted for the ACA without hesitation even though it wasn’t single player because it still improved the lives of Americans. I’m not worried about him if he needs to compromise on some of his proposals. I disagree there. I think he's idealistic. The ACA vote itself might be considered pragmatic. He knows if he voted "no" there, how could he convince people the need of something bigger? Otherwise, like others have said. It's become this purity tests that are uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong, him against Don. I vote for him every single time. But that's because I'm voting against Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Now, I will confess. When I'm contemplating who to vote for, I absolutely do try to predict the future, and extrapolate "what will the country look like, down the road, if this person wins?" And part of that calculation is predicting, not what their promises are, but what I think will actually happen. When I voted for Hilary, it absolutely was based on my mental image of what the country would look like, after four years of "Hillary + R Congress." (And the mental image that I got was that it would look like another four years of Obama + R congress. Which I was perfectly content with.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 ok---here's 1001st notice on this and i'll be dropping it in a couple of the political threads this a.m. as you see in the link below---which has been at the top of forum for weeks per tk--- that if you don't edit images/pics out of the tweets you quote, you get a temp ban and points accumulate to longer bans if repeated https://es.redskins.com/topic/431737-will-you-please-stop-breaking-rule-11-this-means-edit-images-out-of-quoted-tweets-too/ larry and redskins 2000 have been hit, buzz and others just missed getting one, and more than a few of you are prone to doing this read the link...how to do it has been posted numerous times, like in that link, but people still have issues given the nature of things if you can't figure out how to do it via your own computer knowledge or what we've offered in best efforts to help, then don't quote the tweet---refer to the one you're addressing in some other way i much prefer not to see people punted for a couple days over it but we're not going to continue tolerating the disregard for this rule after we ask nicely many times, plus it makes it hard to fairly enforce the rule in other circumstances where it's application is also needed DO NOT PM ME ON THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, bearrock said: Shouldn't we all have a problem with that? I'm not going to be the person who tells a on the fence moderate to vote for Warren despite thinking her ideas are trash and thinks they are worse than four more years of Trump because chances are they will never come to pass. If you think a candidate's proposals are worse than Trump's second term, don't vote for the candidate. I also don't have as a big a problem with candidates arguing that their pie in the sky idea is better than the other pie in the sky idea. That's the nature of campaigning, though a monumental waste of time. Where I have the biggest problem is someone posing a will never pass policy proposal as a purity test against those advocating for a compromise solution, fully knowing it will not pass and that the candidate will have to compromise if they ever become POTUS. That's craven, bold faced deceit. I don’t think there is anything wrong with calling out candidates for not recognizing a broken system that exploits millions of people and those candidates being comfortable continuing that exploitation with a half measure that doesn’t do enough to stop those at the top and the reasons the systems is broken in the first place. I think all Dem should be pushing the needle, pushing the conversation. Realistically, maybe it won’t pass. But I want candidates that I know will at least fight for it and if they lose that fight, they can come to the table with something that maybe is 80% of what they initially fought for. the problem Bernie has from my perspective is that the other candidates aren’t even willing to take that fight on. They are already breaking to R compromises. I want Candidates that do try to be bold and exact real change. Maybe it won’t work out but at least they tried and in doing so, brought that conversation to the mainstream and hopefully moved the needle permanently on it so a future candidate doesn’t have as far to go with voters. I just don't see how you can fault somebody for pushing a policy they truly believe in, even if deep down, they know it's an uphill battle to get it to pass. If you have that attitude going in and just decide "**** it, it won't pass", how can you ever expect to get that policy implemented by you or anyone after you? Also the only real purity test Bernie’s campaign is pushing is against the billionaire class and those funded by and millet beholden to the billionaire class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Bernie:wealthy::Trump:brown people Same dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Just now, TryTheBeal! said: Bernie:wealthy::Trump:brown people Same dynamics. same dynamics but one accurately reflects where many of our problems lie, specifically with the poor and working class. the other is a racist rallying cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Just now, TryTheBeal! said: Bernie:wealthy::Trump:brown people Same dynamics. There is a good amount of racism in the Bernie movement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: same dynamics but one accurately reflects where many of our problems lie, specifically with the poor and working class. the other is a racist rallying cry Fair...but most, if not all Dems/centrists, recognize that and propose/support policies to address our current inequality. Bernie Bros takes that much, much farther...and things can go real south, real quick with that kind of frothing populism and ideological purity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, No Excuses said: There is a good amount of racism in the Bernie movement too. Just me, but I think that's a charge that really shouldn't be thrown around without some support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I don’t think there is anything wrong with calling out candidates for not recognizing a broken system that exploits millions of people and those candidates being comfortable continuing that exploitation with a half measure that doesn’t do enough to stop those at the top and the reasons the systems is broken in the first place. I think all Dem should be pushing the needle, pushing the conversation. Are you talking about MFA or something else? Because on most of the issues Sanders is addressing, no one disputes the problems and need for a new solution. Comfortable with continuing exploitation? So basically, unless the proposed solution is as earth shattering as Sanders', they are "comfortable with continuing exploitation"? Will Bernie be "comfortable with continuing exploitation" if he becomes POTUS and signs off on a compromise bill? If it's not my way or the highway and there is some specific defect with the more moderate proposals, then Sanders need to point out what specifically are disqualifying about those proposals. Instead, he's saying if my plan could pass and if all my assumptions are proven true, and if the vague details are expertly filled, then my plan is superior. Well no **** Sherlock. But given that your plan will not pass, given that we don't know whether your assumptions are true, and given that there are still critical vague details, tell us what superior solution exists. AOC seems ready to settle for the public option as a compromise plan. So is Klobuchar "comfortable with continuing exploitation" when she advocates for a public option? Quote Realistically, maybe it won’t pass. But I want candidates that I know will at least fight for it and if they lose that fight, they can come to the table with something that maybe is 80% of what they initially fought for. Or Americans could say the specifics of the Sanders plan sucks. We'll just leave things the way they are. Build the wall and Mexico will pay for it. Well, build the wall and we'll pay for it. Well, build some wall and we'll pay for it. So Sanders is just engaging in Trumpian negotiation instead of being plain and honest with the American public? Fine. Tout the Sanders MFA as the ultimate goal. Given the high likelihood of it never passing, give me a preview as to what compromise you'll find acceptable instead of leaving me in the dark before pulling that lever. Quote the problem Bernie has from my perspective is that the other candidates aren’t even willing to take that fight on. They are already breaking to R compromises. billionaire class. Not everything wealthy is evil. That's an ad hominem attack without looking at the policy. That's lazy smearing by association. Quote I want Candidates that do try to be bold and exact real change. Maybe it won’t work out but at least they tried and in doing so, brought that conversation to the mainstream and hopefully moved the needle permanently on it so a future candidate doesn’t have as far to go with voters I want real change too. Pie in the sky changes don't count. I'll say what said before. If the changes you need require a political revolution, we'll call you after the revolution is over. Because it's a hard pass on a POTUS who will sit in the oval office for 4 years waiting for that perfect bill to come across their desk. If that's not the case, let's talk about what compromises we are talking about. Quote Also the only real purity test Bernie’s campaign is pushing is against the billionaire class and those funded by and millet beholden to the billionaire class. Every idea and support should be evaluated on merits. Rich people can have the right idea as well as anyone else. Skepticism? Perhaps warranted. Purity test? No way. Edited after first reply (either I missed this part when I replied, or the section got added after): Quote I just don't see how you can fault somebody for pushing a policy they truly believe in, even if deep down, they know it's an uphill battle to get it to pass. If you have that attitude going in and just decide "**** it, it won't pass", how can you ever expect to get that policy implemented by you or anyone after you? I don't fault anyone for the aspirations. Warren is my top 2 and her aspirations are just as pie in the sky as anyone out there. I don't fault Sanders for pushing his proposals either. But don't paint people who discuss compromise solutions as somehow morally corrupt. And when people point out how unlikely your proposal is to pass, either discuss your fall back plan or discuss why in your opinion, the proposal has a good chance of passing. And tell us what you plan to do if you are given a compromise proposal by Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, bearrock said: Shouldn't we all have a problem with that? I would think so but plenty obviously don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 47 minutes ago, No Excuses said: There is a good amount of racism in the Bernie movement too. Yeah, against white people. Lots of mayo talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Fair...but most, if not all Dems/centrists, recognize that and propose/support policies to address our current inequality. Bernie Bros takes that much, much farther...and things can go real south, real quick with that kind of frothing populism and ideological purity. I don't disagree with any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Larry said: Just me, but I think that's a charge that really shouldn't be thrown around without some support Bernie’s most rabid supporters just spent the past 24 hours harassing a Nigerian man who supports Buttigieg, who they determined was really just a white woman pretending to be black. Thousands of people harassed him enough that he had to deactivate his social media handles. And it turned out, that he is indeed Nigerian. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/pete-buttigieg-campaign-sockpuppet-nigerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: Bernie’s most rabid supporters just spent the past 24 hours harassing a Nigerian man who supports Buttigieg, who they determined was really just a white woman pretending to be black. Thousands of people harassed him enough that he had to deactivate his social media handles. And it turned out, that he is indeed Nigerian. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/pete-buttigieg-campaign-sockpuppet-nigerian Evidence that some of Bernie's supporters aren't as racially blind as I'd like. "Racism" seems a bit of a stretch. (To me, that term seems more reserved for white supremacy ideology.) But I'm not going to say that's a completely invalid point, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Here's my wish. As the Democratic field bashes each other in the primaries, they should take a lesson from our very own TWA and his obsession with a certain former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State... After every slam or accusation against a Democratic opponent, they should automatically add to the end of the statement "Still better than Trump." When speaking. In TV and Internet ads. Every time. The side effect for us would be that every time TWA writes "Still better than Hilary" we could chuckle that his mantra has been usurped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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