Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[dfitzo53]

24 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Biden is the definition of establishment. In 2019 the last thing modernist Democrats want is another out of touch old school Democrat that has no idea how to work the internet or has no idea what net neutrality is. 

This has nothing to do with the bottom half of your post. Any reasonable "modernist Democrat" needs to suck it up and vote for the dem nominee when the other option is another four years of Trump. 

 

Modernist Democrats aren't the lost rust belt votes you're talking about in the bottom half of your post. Joe Biden is arguably more likely than a lot of other dem candidates to appeal to rust belters that previously voted Trump. 

[NoCalMike]

I am not all that excited about Biden as a candidate or potential President, but at this point I'd take him if it means getting Trump out of office.  My worry is that the media is going to go so all in on Biden as a white knight, that if something were to take him out of the race prematurely, the media would frame it as all hope for 2020 being lost. 

[ixcuincle]

Also how soon until Biden missteps and costs himself the election. The guy has a big mouth. Are you aware he still thinks he did nothin wrong when he touched those women inappropriately? 

25 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said:

This has nothing to do with the bottom half of your post. Any reasonable "modernist Democrat" needs to suck it up and vote for the dem nominee when the other option is another four years of Trump. 

 

Modernist Democrats aren't the lost rust belt votes you're talking about in the bottom half of your post. Joe Biden is arguably more likely than a lot of other dem candidates to appeal to rust belters that previously voted Trump. 

 

While true it depends on what his solution is to rampant unemployment and job loss in the midwest. If he wants to embrace new ideas I'm all for it. (i.e. UBI) 

 

Let's not pretend that there's a crisis going on in Middle America where factories are being shuttered due to outsourcing and AI. 

[ixcuincle]

The election hinges on who can cater best to the swing state voters, many of who have lost their jobs due to automation or outsourcing. Donald basically went through hundreds of events during his campaign on his private jet, throughout the Midwest and Rust Belt, pitching "saving American Jobs" and "bringing them back". Hillary essentially didn't visit any of those states, including Michigan, which she didn't go to in her final days while Trump was there grandstanding and pitching MAGA. 

 

I would hope the next Democratic candidate addresses a proper game plan to beat Trump, which is essentially to win those swing states and provide a feasible option to job loss due to automation or what not that doesn't involve "building a wall". 

[dfitzo53]

19 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Also how soon until Biden missteps and costs himself the election. The guy has a big mouth. Are you aware he still thinks he did nothin wrong when he touched those women inappropriately? 

 

While true it depends on what his solution is to rampant unemployment and job loss in the midwest. If he wants to embrace new ideas I'm all for it. (i.e. UBI) 

 

Let's not pretend that there's a crisis going on in Middle America where factories are being shuttered due to outsourcing and AI. 

I don't love Biden, I just am not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. I will vote for any Democrat over Trump unless you could actually prove to me that the Democrat is somehow worse than Trump. That's essentially unfathomable. In that case I guess I'd vote third party. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

The day the Dems actually stand up for labor rights, allowing people to organize, and not just promoting jobs but promoting jobs that have dignity and will have you live a healthy life, ie NOT driving Uber, is the day Dems will win. You can say the economy is doing good but when most people are not feeling it, then talk about it. in my area, gas prices have gone up 80 cents since January 1, no one is talking about that. A lot of stores are closing. No mention.

 

The economy is not working and it seems to be "doing good" because companies are propped up by not helping labor. Take a stand and campaign on that.

 

And Joe Biden is not and never will be the answer to any of that either. He has no interest in labor.

[NoCalMike]

5 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The day the Dems actually stand up for labor rights, allowing people to organize, and not just promoting jobs but promoting jobs that have dignity and will have you live a healthy life, ie NOT driving Uber, is the day Dems will win. You can say the economy is doing good but when most people are not feeling it, then talk about it. in my area, gas prices have gone up 80 cents since January 1, no one is talking about that. A lot of stores are closing. No mention.

 

The economy is not working and it seems to be "doing good" because companies are propped up by not helping labor. Take a stand and campaign on that.

 

And Joe Biden is not and never will be the answer to any of that either. He has no interest in labor.

 

 

Agree with a lot of that.  Seems like most measurements for a good economy fall on the GDP side which might have been a good way to measure 50+ years ago, but with automation continuing to prop up GDP and productivity, it simply isn't a good way to gauge how well the economy is working for the actual employees.  Things may be great on the profitability end, but if bigger percentages of the profits and fruits of the automation tree are just being siphoned to the top, it isn't helping out much with the actual labor force. I wish we would stop viewing the vague term "jobs" as some kind of bullet proof validation for the economy's health.

[Bozo the kKklown]

22 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Things may be great on the profitability end, but if bigger percentages of the profits and fruits of the automation tree are just being siphoned to the top, it isn't helping out much with the actual labor force. I wish we would stop viewing the vague term "jobs" as some kind of bullet proof validation for the economy's health.

Think about what the gig economy entails. Uber drivers have to be on the road, wearing out their car, for 10-11 hours to make a couple of hundred dollars. This is without benefits. None of this is good. This is not a good work environment and no one is protecting them. The only people this is good for is the companies who dole out little, have no responsibility to the employees, and can let people go as soon as profits dip. This is dangerous and no one is talking about it. This is even before automation hits. We are currently in it right now.

 

No candidate is talking about that. Not even Bernie "socialism is good" Sanders. Its been nearly 40 years of this Reagan world and labor is suffering. TALK ABOUT THAT!

[ixcuincle]

Yang has been saying this for months but GDP is NOT a reliable indicator of economic success. GDP does not count underemployed or unemployed people. If a lot of people in midwest America have given up on finding work or work lesser paid jobs because of the rough economy, they won't be included in the GDP metric. 

 

I absolutely agree that the Democrats need someone who won't look at GDP and other flawed metric, but rather listen to what the people in middle America want. I keep mentioning middle America because again it's how Donald got elected. He catered to those states, won all the swing states he needed to win, pitching "MAGA" and the jobs returning. And Hillary never did that crap. 

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Yang has been saying this for months but GDP is NOT a reliable indicator of economic success. GDP does not count underemployed or unemployed people. If a lot of people in midwest America have given up on finding work or work lesser paid jobs because of the rough economy, they won't be included in the GDP metric. 

 

 

I am just a forums political scientist (barely), but I have been saying it for awhile now too.  The less products are being made by hand, by actual workers, the less GDP becomes a good gauge for the economy.  Same thing with for example office/admin jobs that increasingly intelligent scripts and "bots" can process in place of workers.   GDP statistics do not take into account how the GDP was processed or where the revenue produced by the GDP goes.  Also, even in the case where humans are still the driving force for GDP, it still doesn't answer the question of how it translates into compensation for the laborers.  

[ixcuincle]

 

 

So he's basically been saying this for months before Warren did, and he thinks that we should have more people attend technical or vocational training (59% of Germans do this). Lot of reasons messed up with college system right now. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

Wohl should be in prison for a long time after all the **** he's pulled.

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Joe's only slightly right about the middle class building America. He left out a major contributor. Immigrants. Slave and cheap immigrant labor is what built this country. Without opportunity for all to achieve a place in middle class America we'll continue on as we have for so long, as indentured servants. Love to see every candidates, including Joes, plan for achieving that. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

**** is wrong with these guys. Run for a office you actually have a shot winning.

[Cooked Crack]

Oops wrong thread

 

[visionary]

 

 

🙃

[Momma There Goes That Man]

This is a disaster 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Rogue Jedi]

It disturbs me that Biden is leading the polls.

 

Have we learned nothing from 2016? Another establishment candidate... more fodder for the right wing opposition. More division.

 

It pains me how great candidates like Andrew Yang are getting overlooked. This dude has actual policies laid out, a plan, and doesn't run on negative shots at Trump. I've seen more and more on the right, including Trump supporters, throw their hat in for Yang. This is the guy we should be getting behind. The guy that stops the vicious cycle of the pendulum swinging from extreme-left to extreme-right. And he's doing it with progressive policies that appeal to everyone. UBI, Medicare, Climate change.

Yang is the only candidate that actually has a vision past 2020. He sees the writing on the wall of the technological boom, and the consequences, and is the only Dem equipped to handle it based on his work with Venture for America, and a degree in economics from Brown University.

 

Anyone not familiar with Andrew Yang, go on YouTube and look up his interviews with Joe Rogan, The Breakfast Club, and Ben Shapiro.

 

FOR ****'S SAKE HE MADE BEN SHAPIRO, THE BASTION OF MODERN  MILLENNIAL CONSERVATISM, AGREE WITH HIM!!! Look up his interview on Fox News, Fox News Business, and the comment section is raving about him. FOX VOTERS!!!!!!

 

Anyone familiar with YouTube knows how much of a cesspool the comment section can be in any political video. Yang is the only candidate i've seen where both the left and right actually love his approach and policies. This guy can beat Trump by winning over his voters. He could potentially mop the electoral map.

 

Honestly, I'm getting the same feeling about Yang that haven't felt about a  candidate since Obama in '07. He's that type of revolutionary. Obama was the guy for the time in 2008, Yang is the guy for 2020 and beyond.

 

Please, give this guy a shot. The MSM is ignoring him, because he's the only dude who makes sense and isn't spitting the words Trump out of his mouth every 2 minutes. He needs more exposure, and his ideas will start getting popular. If we run Biden, I don't see this country improving socially or economically, whether he wins or not.

 

#YangGang2020

 

 

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said:

It disturbs me that Biden is leading the polls.

 

Have we learned nothing from 2016? Another establishment candidate... more fodder for the right wing opposition. More division.

 

It pains me how great candidates like Andrew Yang are getting overlooked. This dude has actual policies laid out, a plan, and doesn't run on negative shots at Trump. I've seen more and more on the right, including Trump supporters, throw their hat in for Yang. This is the guy we should be getting behind. The guy that stops the vicious cycle of the pendulum swinging from extreme-left to extreme-right. And he's doing it with progressive policies that appeal to everyone. UBI, Medicare, Climate change.

Yang is the only candidate that actually has a vision past 2020. He sees the writing on the wall of the technological boom, and the consequences, and is the only Dem equipped to handle it based on his work with Venture for America, and a degree in economics from Brown University.

 

Anyone not familiar with Andrew Yang, go on YouTube and look up his interviews with Joe Rogan, The Breakfast Club, and Ben Shapiro.

 

FOR ****'S SAKE HE MADE BEN SHAPIRO, THE BASTION OF MODERN  MILLENNIAL CONSERVATISM, AGREE WITH HIM!!! Look up his interview on Fox News, Fox News Business, and the comment section is raving about him. FOX VOTERS!!!!!!

 

Anyone familiar with YouTube knows how much of a cesspool the comment section can be in any political video. Yang is the only candidate i've seen where both the left and right actually love his approach and policies. This guy can beat Trump by winning over his voters. He could potentially mop the electoral map.

 

Honestly, I'm getting the same feeling about Yang that haven't felt about a  candidate since Obama in '07. He's that type of revolutionary. Obama was the guy for the time in 2008, Yang is the guy for 2020 and beyond.

 

Please, give this guy a shot. The MSM is ignoring him, because he's the only dude who makes sense and isn't spitting the words Trump out of his mouth every 2 minutes. He needs more exposure, and his ideas will start getting popular. If we run Biden, I don't see this country improving socially or economically, whether he wins or not.

 

#YangGang2020

 

 

 

VATs almost certainly hit the poor the hardest.  Like a minimum wage, pass through is almost never going to be 100%, but it is also isn't going to be 0.  There almost certainly will be some sort of associated general inflation and decreasing spending for the poor to adjust is very hard.

 

Combining that with a decrease in welfare programs, the living standard of the poor is almost certainly going to go down.

 

VATs also hit small and new businesses hard as they generally don't have the cash flow or economic flexibility to easily set the money aside to pay the VAT and have to pay administrative costs associated with the VAT.  And yet, these are the things that are most generally cause economic growth.

 

In general, a VAT is not (very) progressive and with the income being distributed evenly (for a UBI) would only likely exacerbate issues with wealth inequality.

 

I'm not necessarily against a VAT or a UBI.  I'd very much be against a UBI that is funded through minimizing some welfare programs and a VAT.

 

There's no (real) reason we can't tax wealth (instead of income) or institute a more robust estate tax.  These things won't cause general inflation and aren't depended on jobs.

[ixcuincle]

16 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

VATs almost certainly hit the poor the hardest.  Like a minimum wage, pass through is almost never going to be 100%, but it is also isn't going to be 0.  There almost certainly will be some sort of associated general inflation and decreasing spending for the poor to adjust is very hard.

 

Combining that with a decrease in welfare programs, the living standard of the poor is almost certainly going to go down.

 

VATs also hit small and new businesses hard as they generally don't have the cash flow or economic flexibility to easily set the money aside to pay the VAT and have to pay administrative costs associated with the VAT.  And yet, these are the things that are most generally cause economic growth.

 

In general, a VAT is not (very) progressive and with the income being distributed evenly (for a UBI) would only likely exacerbate issues with wealth inequality.

 

I'm not necessarily against a VAT or a UBI.  I'd very much be against a UBI that is funded through minimizing some welfare programs and a VAT.

 

There's no (real) reason we can't tax wealth (instead of income) or institute a more robust estate tax.  These things won't cause general inflation and aren't depended on jobs.

 

Every developed country other than the US uses a VAT. Is thre any reason the US is the lone holdout?