TheGreatBuzz Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Remind me of the impact this has on how the team actually performs in September and beyond? It doesnt. But it gives us something to **** about in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Remind me of the impact this has on how the team actually performs in September and beyond? Just like my post right now; it = zero effect. However, it is the off-season and it does gives us something to talk b**** about. The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 5 hours ago, goskins10 said: Remind me of the impact this has on how the team actually performs in September and beyond? None, unless it acts as motivation for some players. Then again, if we only discuss things that directly impact on-field performance there would be about 3 threads total on the entire site lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said: Trent at 47 is a Joke. And honestly Cousins at 70 while Winston at 57 is another joke. I think its the Redskins curse where our players are always undervalued just like the team. I mean if you look at most predictions for the NFC East this year they have us finishing 4th with maybe 7 wins tops. Zero respect as always. Do they really undervalue us? I mean the RG3 rookie season was a shock to all of us and two years ago the division was awful. Last year we were right around .500 again, whos to think that'll change in an improved East? We're probably better than the Eagles again, but Cowboys and Giants are both pretty much playoff locks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Right. We might like the coaching staff and the way the roster is coming together, but what have we done to earn the respect of the mainstream media? We seem to shuffle ass first into a wildcard spot or division win every 2-3 years which is basically average, probably worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 55 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Right. We might like the coaching staff and the way the roster is coming together, but what have we done to earn the respect of the mainstream media? We seem to shuffle ass first into a wildcard spot or division win every 2-3 years which is basically average, probably worse. I guess nobody knows about Spaight, Marshall or Harris being on our roster, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 11 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Right. We might like the coaching staff and the way the roster is coming together, but what have we done to earn the respect of the mainstream media? We seem to shuffle ass first into a wildcard spot or division win every 2-3 years which is basically average, probably worse. No, the rest of our divisions playoff appearances would be average. We've actually been best in the NFC East over the past 5 years or so until last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, Peregrine said: No, the rest of our divisions playoff appearances would be average. We've actually been best in the NFC East over the past 5 years or so until last season. Like I said. We stumble backwards into playoff spots at the end of the season, and then we disappoint the following year. Combine that with continuing drama in our FO and an inability to do the one thing every other NFL team does with no issues (secure a QB who is producing long-term) and we look like the same old Redskins shooting ourselves in the foot after every step forward. Like I said, people who follow the team have reasons to be optimistic about what we're building. But it's not surprising the national media wants us to win consistently before they believe it--every time we make the playoffs and they give us the benefit of the doubt we make them look dumb as we fall apart again the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 7 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Like I said. We stumble backwards into playoff spots at the end of the season This reads like something a dallas troll would post. That 2015 season earned us some respect. It was a team defying the odds and several players making names for themselves. Losing quickly in the playoffs and missing out the following season is what did us in as far as national respect is concerned. You have to be in the postseason and make some noise more often than not to get that. We haven't done that yet. Simple as that. No need to mischaracterize team successes. That 2015 run was impressive, sad to see you **** on it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, elkabong82 said: This reads like something a dallas troll would post. That 2015 season earned us some respect. It was a team defying the odds and several players making names for themselves. Losing quickly in the playoffs and missing out the following season is what did us in as far as national respect is concerned. You have to be in the postseason and make some noise more often than not to get that. We haven't done that yet. Simple as that. No need to mischaracterize team successes. That 2015 run was impressive, sad to see you **** on it like that. You basically just repeated what I said above, but in more flattering terms. Looking at it from a mostly unbiased viewpoint, but with the slightly negative slant of someone who isn't invested in the team and has the "same old Redskins" perception is exactly what I was going for, to show how easy it is to see why we aren't getting the national media's respect, and why we rarely do. For me its extremely easy to take a step back from my fandom, toss aside the homer goggles and my Camelbak full of Kool Aid, and see things how "outsiders" see them. I'm not saying these people are correct or more rational than us in their views--distance does not equal lack of bias--but I'm just demonstrating that when you stand where they are standing, with what they know, its easy to see why they feel the way they do. I don't know if we'll prove them wrong or not (I hope so), but I am not going to hold it against non-Redskins fans/media if they see what I said above and doubt us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Not seeing how we stumbled into anything in 2015. We started crappy, then won the majority of our games after the bye. In 2012, we went 5-1 in the East, nearly sweeping the entire division, beating several really good teams, and winning 7 in a row. In 2005 we won 5 in a row and in 2007 we won 4 in a row. In 2005 we were worn down, but other then that, I seriously do not see the "Stumble." Winter is when the playoff yteams go on hotstreaks and separate themselves from the rest of the pack. Every year, we beat the teams on our schedule, and earned our keep every step of the way. 2015 and 2012 we lost to good teams. In the case of the Packers, they were a good matchup, seeing as the defense wasn't good. 2007 and 2005 as well. That tends to happen in the playoffs. I don't see anything homerific about recognizing any of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: You basically just repeated what I said above, but in more flattering terms. Looking at it from a mostly unbiased viewpoint, but with the slightly negative slant of someone who isn't invested in the team and has the "same old Redskins" perception is exactly what I was going for, to show how easy it is to see why we aren't getting the national media's respect, and why we rarely do. For me its extremely easy to take a step back from my fandom, toss aside the homer goggles and my Camelbak full of Kool Aid, and see things how "outsiders" see them. I'm not saying these people are correct or more rational than us in their views--distance does not equal lack of bias--but I'm just demonstrating that when you stand where they are standing, with what they know, its easy to see why they feel the way they do. I don't know if we'll prove them wrong or not (I hope so), but I am not going to hold it against non-Redskins fans/media if they see what I said above and doubt us. Agreed save for your summation of 2015 playoff run. Even national media took notice of the run. Plus, almost every team basically "falls backwards" into playoffs by needing to win at or near the end. I agree that consistency is needed first. What I disagree with is the summation of 2015, and I don't think that's a national media narrative either. Most see the talent on the team, and acknowledge it, but IMO have trepidation solely because we haven't put it togeter consistently. The FO stuff, how the team gets to the playoffs, etc. doesn't matter one iota if the team is consistently winning. Winning consistently is the only thing that matters in terms of getting national media respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 can someone explain to me how this whole top 100 thing works? I assume not everyone in the league fills out the sheet, right? And probably not everyone is going to have the same player listed in a certain spot...how does the league determine which player goes in which spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: can someone explain to me how this whole top 100 thing works? I assume not everyone in the league fills out the sheet, right? And probably not everyone is going to have the same player listed in a certain spot...how does the league determine which player goes in which spot? An unknown number of players are asked to rank whoever they want 1-20 in order. Those results are tallied and that's basically it. The methodology sucks and I posted about it a while ago. It means rankings are heavily skewed toward inter-division rivals of whoever "voted", since they watch tape on each other, as well as players on their own team and guys all over the national media. Rather than a straight unbiased ranking it's kind of a mess, and not very transparent. Kinda like the pro bowl and equally as dumb. Gives us something to talk about though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Like I said. We stumble backwards into playoff spots at the end of the season, and then we disappoint the following year. Why doesn't anyone ever say we "stumbled backwards into a playoff spot" in 1987? Because we won the SB? You know who stumbled backwards into the playoffs?...The 2005 Vikings. The Redskins have never had a playoff season like that. I don't think using the word "stumble" helps strengthen your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Yeah you guys are probably right about that 2015 run, it was pretty dominant. The rest of my point stands though lol. Reverting back to almost a .500 team the next year and losing that killer instinct to win when we HAD to, making us miss the playoffs when we were win and in a couple times, just steals away any of the confidence we earned on a national level in 2015. Like everyone is agreeing, gotta do it multiple years in a row. 7 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Why doesn't anyone ever say we "stumbled backwards into a playoff spot" in 1987? Because we won the SB? You know who stumbled backwards into the playoffs?...The 2005 Vikings. The Redskins have never had a playoff season like that. I don't think using the word "stumble" helps strengthen your point. It's a perception thing. When you **** around and revert to looking mediocre or worse again the next season, it makes people rethink what they took as a truth the previous year (that we were on the rise and on the way to being a strong competitor, tops in the division, etc.) It retroactively spoils the playoff seasons we DO have when we collapse the year after, even if the national media was correct to be impressed and "believe" at the time. I'm not saying it's right, but this whole conversation is about narratives and that's what happens imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 12 was magic and we followed it with 7 wins in two years. Then Kirk came on and we made a strong push through an easy schedule, then spanked immediately in the playoffs and followed that with a near .500 record, 3rd in the division and looked awful to finish the year. I couldn't be happier to not be a .300 team, but we're a .500 team right now, until proven differently. We also have the FO dysfunction to ice the cake. Why do we deserve any respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 @Koolblue13 if this is "dysfunction" for the front office, I'd say that's pretty good. The front office has been way better since February/March. Had a great draft. No bad rumors coming out right now at all. Decent chance we make a deal with the QB by July 15. Compared to years past? Yeah, I don't see any dysfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 A better Trent Williams ranking: Note: Author is not a Redskins fan. https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/top-5-ots-nfl-heading-2017-season/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 One of the things that makes Kirk so good: Trent was PFF's top graded LT last year: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 On 5/31/2017 at 8:06 PM, ConnSKINS26 said: Yeah you guys are probably right about that 2015 run, it was pretty dominant. The rest of my point stands though lol. Reverting back to almost a .500 team the next year and losing that killer instinct to win when we HAD to, making us miss the playoffs when we were win and in a couple times, just steals away any of the confidence we earned on a national level in 2015. Like everyone is agreeing, gotta do it multiple years in a row. It's a perception thing. When you **** around and revert to looking mediocre or worse again the next season, it makes people rethink what they took as a truth the previous year (that we were on the rise and on the way to being a strong competitor, tops in the division, etc.) It retroactively spoils the playoff seasons we DO have when we collapse the year after, even if the national media was correct to be impressed and "believe" at the time. I'm not saying it's right, but this whole conversation is about narratives and that's what happens imo. Sorry but that logic makes no sense. Because the team falls backwards the next year it somehow tarnishes the accomplishments of the season before? That just makes no sense. This whole idea of "stumbling" into the POs is ludicrous. The only time I buy that - and even then it's a stretch - is when you lose the game or two and others lose allowing you to make the POs. Even then you did enough earlier to make it. You are in. Who cares how you got there? In 2012 and 2015 we had to win our last game to make the POs. SO many things can go wrong or right from season to season that to say this year suddenly becomes a referendum on last year just seriously makes zero sense. Predicting next year is a different story. I do get there is no respect from the national media. In their view - the team lost their 2 best WRs, the best Dlineman (although that's not say much), have two new coordinators, and because they like to ignore history and the fact that Cousins is actually signed for this year - they keep assuming that Kirk will not be here this year or that if he is he will not paly well because his feelings are hurt. Add in the Scot M thing and not playing well down the stretch - losing several games that would have put us in the POs and I can see from an outsiders standpoint that the team looks to have some problems. Now they have conveniently chosen to ignore anything the team has done to make improvements. But that is their right. It's a lot easier to just go with the herd as opposed to doing your own research. Sports media is largely a mob mentality thing. What's interesting is that while so many are getting worked up about the negative types of predictions - where is the discussion about Gil Brandt ranking the Redskins as having a top 10 roster in terms of talent? I know someone posted it but not was discussed and certainly not obsessed over like the negative predictions. Just seems curious. Myself, not just because he gave us good grades - I have respected Gil for a long time. Brandt, Bill Pollian, Herm Edwards and Rich Gannon are the ones I have the most respect for. With honorable mention to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin. Love their mock drafts and when they break down offenses and defenses. The rest - don't seem to do much actual research. They just regurgitate what others say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 hours ago, goskins10 said: Sorry but that logic makes no sense. Because the team falls backwards the next year it somehow tarnishes the accomplishments of the season before? That just makes no sense. In terms of perception and media narrarive, yes. How did you feel about 2012 and our future with that cast of characters after 2012? How did you look back upon the 2012 season differently after 2014? 2016? Gaining more information later absolutely changes the perception of the past, it's only natural. You can't just isolate history in the context of its time, it's always viewed through the prism of the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The last thing anybody saw from the Skins was going 2-4 down the stretch with wins over an atrocious Bears team and a last place Eagles team, with bad losses against the Giants, Panthers and Cardinals. Then they lost lost their best 2 offensive weapons and OC. And failed to get one of the top tier DCs who were available. The only "name" FA we brought in was Pryor. The draft was good but rookie starters don't translate to wins. The national media perception is what it is until the see all the pieces come together and the Skins win games. (If that happens.) until then, the perception is that they either stayed the same or got worse. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The main reason that they are ranked 22 is because the main component for FPI in preseason is LV odds. It has nothing to do with the media. I'm sure that various other power indices will be coming out soon that are entirely subjective, but FPI is more like seeding the preseason according to the LV future odds, then adjusting that seeding by simulating all the scheduled games on Madden 10000 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So, Dak is #14. 2 spots ahead of Brees. Cousins was #70 Griffin after 2012 was 15 for comparison. Carr is 11, and Rodgers, Brady and Ryan have not been named. So Dak is the 5th best QB in the league, according to this poll of players. Take that for what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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