Awful,bitter taste in my mouth.

[Butters20]

I just found it amazing that we couldn't even get a Hail Mary accomplished. I mean, not even in the field of play. Not even a good OL block on an obvious prevent defense situation. Just sad. Say what you want about all the other mistakes, we couldn't even throw a last ditch prayer in the field of play. Smh. 

[goskins10]

44 minutes ago, bh32 said:

yeah ok...never said they had to hold a team to zero points...look at the teams that have top 10 defenses,all of them are holding teams below 21 points a game...So again how is this a good defense?

 

The D is at 23.6 pt/gm. Not exactly a mile from 21. And if you take out just the Pitts game - that changes it to 21.6. So that's just about what you were asking for. No one is saying this is a top Def but people need to stop saying it's horrible. Right now it is just about average. That's not good enough but it's lot better than people keep saying.

[skins island connection]

49 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Come on with the ST thing already. Samuels was better, portis, moss, were better. Trent is better. Norman is better hands down. He's the best defensive player we've had since Daryl Green retired. 

 Um,

 Champ Bailey has a bone to pick with you...

Unless he left before, can't remember

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Darrell Green 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

I think GHH is saying that at some point on that last drive, it appeared we were playing to not lose instead of to win. After the 2nd down screen to Crowder that got blown up, Gruden essentially waited 10 seconds from :40 to :30 before calling timeout. I know there's a fear of leaving too much time for Cincy in case the ensuing 3rd down pass fell incomplete and you had to punt, but if you run the play with :40 left, worst case in case of an incompletion is that you'll be punting from your own 40 with probably 30-35 seconds left, which would give Cincy the ball deep in their own territory with at most 25 seconds left and no timeouts.

And then after the 3rd down pass which gets it to midfield.....why not, instead of running the clock down to 2 seconds left to set up for a hail mary, maybe run it down to 10 seconds and call a quick out to attempt to get 15 yards and out of bounds with around 5 seconds left.  If its completed, Hopkins is set up for another GWFG attempt; if not, you only leave Cincy a chance at their own hail mary (dicey when they have AJ Green as the Browns found out, but still). I guess you could also have the possibility of Cousins getting sacked back at his own 40 and setting them up for a 58-yard FG, but perhaps take steps like rolling Cousins out to preclude that.

It just seems that too often coaches play with the worst-case scenario in mind, when there are ways to mitigate against it.

 

Ok, let's go through this with exact yardage. Skins get the ball 1st and 10 at the CN 47. The PI was called on PG putting the ball at the WASH 34, not it's 1st and 20. He took a deep shot to Crowder but misses him. 2nd and 20 still at the WASH 43. His Crowder in the flat - a play that's been pretty successful - but this time the D sniffs it out and it goes for 1 yd. 3rd and 19 at the 44. Next he hits Red for 8 yds - MN makes a nice tackle. 4th and 11 at the CN 48 with 30 secs left. If you go for it and don't make it you give them the ball at the worst their 38 with 20+ secs. They only need to go about 30 yds (that's assuming worst case scenario) to give their guy a chance. I believe they had 1 TO left.

Sorry, but while as a fan I would have loved to see them be more aggressive, I can absolutely see why Jay decided to play not to lose in that situation. He takes losing out of the equation. Even if you did what you suggested, there are too many things that can go wrong. If you can take losing out of the equation, you have to do it.

[bh32]

20 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

The D is at 23.6 pt/gm. Not exactly a mile from 21. And if you take out just the Pitts game - that changes it to 21.6. So that's just about what you were asking for. No one is saying this is a top Def but people need to stop saying it's horrible. Right now it is just about average. That's not good enough but it's lot better than people keep saying.

Yeah ok...lol lets see.Cant stop the run,piss poor tackling,cant get off the field on third down no matter the distance,and gives up over 23 points a game and you think that is a average Defense? Sorry but your standards are way to low..

[Xameil]

7 hours ago, markmills67 said:

We should have had another shot at a FG but the ref's took that chance away due to the horrendous offensive interference call on Garcon. 

Give it up. he never should have missed a 34 yard FG. no matter how you look at it..that caused the tie.

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Just hope Hopkins isn't ruined like Gano,Suisham Novak &others were & thrived with new teams.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

10 minutes ago, Xameil said:

Give it up. he never should have missed a 34 yard FG. no matter how you look at it..that caused the tie.

Exactly. Some always gotta blame every loss on the officials. We have no one but ourselves to blame for that loss.

[goskins10]

Just now, bh32 said:

Yeah ok...lol lets see.Cant stop the run,piss poor tackling,cant get off the field on third down no matter the distance,and gives up over 23 points a game and you think that is a average Defense? Sorry but your standards are way to low..

 

I tried to politely show you that the complains were an exaggeration. But instead you threw some even more exaggerations. Can't stop the run is not true or every running play would be a TD. Yes, that is a literal interpretation. Done so to make the point of how much of an exaggeration that is. Do they struggle on the ground? Yes, not great for sure. But they are getting better - something you and your ilk refuse to see. Bad tackling has been a problem off and on, but you don't keep 4 teams from scoring TDs in 4 gms straight by not making tackles. Again, an exaggeration on your part as they have been improving as the season goes on. Can't get off the field no matter the distance is also another exaggeration. If that were the case they would have a 100% against 3rd down average. Oddly enough that's just not true. They started out really bad have been improving, considerably. Again, I realize you like to ignore this part, but no one is saying they are great or even good. But they are not horrible either. And they are improving as the season goes on.

As for as my standards, you may be right. After all I made the mistake thinking you might respond to data.

[skins island connection]

28 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 Um,

 Champ Bailey has a bone to pick with you...

So do we get these refs again any time this year?

If so, I see a copycat of The Longest Yard in the makings. We all know these refs will be skittish as hell when they cover another one of our games.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

41 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

4th and 11 at the CN 48 with 30 secs left. If you go for it and don't make it you give them the ball at the worst their 38 with 20+ secs. They only need to go about 30 yds (that's assuming worst case scenario) to give their guy a chance. I believe they had 1 TO left.

Sorry, but while as a fan I would have loved to see them be more aggressive, I can absolutely see why Jay decided to play not to lose in that situation. He takes losing out of the equation. Even if you did what you suggested, there are too many things that can go wrong. If you can take losing out of the equation, you have to do it.

The bengals had no TOs left, they used their last one on our FG attempt. So you run the clock down on 4th and try to pass for the 1st with 10-15 seconds left. That leaves the bengals next to no time to both get a pass to get into FG range and then spike it in time. 

I also question the 2nd down screen pass. It's just too risky of a play there. Throw the ball forward for an easy 5 yard check down, it's a safer and more productive play.  I feel like our coaching staff is situationally clueless. A screen pass is fine to call during the game but in that moment just didn't make much sense. Too much can go wrong. Play the odds, run a normal pass play for she or yardage and hope you get some YAC opportunity. 

[NoVaSkins21]

49 minutes ago, Xameil said:

Give it up. he never should have missed a 34 yard FG. no matter how you look at it..that caused the tie.

Agreed.  Hopkins needs to make that kick after being iced.  I've hated that strategy since Shanahan started it years ago and it makes the opposing coach looks so smart when it's really nothing at all.   

[goskins10]

46 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

The bengals had no TOs left, they used their last one on our FG attempt. So you run the clock down on 4th and try to pass for the 1st with 10-15 seconds left. That leaves the bengals next to no time to both get a pass to get into FG range and then spike it in time. 

I also question the 2nd down screen pass. It's just too risky of a play there. Throw the ball forward for an easy 5 yard check down, it's a safer and more productive play.  I feel like our coaching staff is situationally clueless. A screen pass is fine to call during the game but in that moment just didn't make much sense. Too much can go wrong. Play the odds, run a normal pass play for she or yardage and hope you get some YAC opportunity. 

 

The screen has been a good play for us. They made a play. It's as simple as that. They have all kinds of stats and data that help then decide what they want to run. They got a look they wanted to called the play. Just because it does not work out does not mean it's the wrong play. It's always easy to second guess when a play doesn't work.  

 

[bih]

9 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Last place in the NFC East and we have a point differential of -3. 

(And its driving me nuts bc we should be 6-2 but for missed opportunities). 

 

 

you can thank that to our DC, still somehow he has a job.

[zCommander]

The Raiders got 23 flags thrown at them. Almost as much as we got. The Raiders won!

I blame this lose on Gruden. Take the points instead of 4th and inch especially if you are going to go cute by calling a running play from the back field. This is where someone like Brady would have no problem moving the chains. QB sneak was the only option here. We would be up by 3 and no overtime and no tie and less mouth wash bought and used. 

Edit: Other option was to just run the ball one more time to get even closer for a kick. OR run after the icing and throw the Bengals off instead. Gruden still needs to learn how to think quick on his feet. 

[Wildbunny]

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

@Wildbunny our defense is terrible. We lack a bunch of play makers. We've got maybe 4 good starters. If we didn't have Norman, Wed be getting destroyed every week.

We'd have #1WRs going off in addition to RBs.

Sure, they make an occasional good play, but overall, they're not good.

Yeah but we have Norman, so we're gonna have to play him no? that's a BS argument, just like saying the Patriots sucks because they have Brady and if not for him they would suck (well they did early in the season). Let's take away the best players on every team to showcase every one how they suck. Woot, let's have the NFL make a rule forcing teams to play their 3rd string QB instead of their starter.

Our Defense main problem is Joe Barry.

Not that I don't like the guy, or thinks he sucks, but just because of his history with the Matt Millen's Detroit Lions infamous 0-16 season he's seen as a widely sucking general. And until he doesn't move, he can do whatever he wants, most people around here will nitpick here and there saying that our D is terrible.

Come on KB, you're smarter than that and you should have notice that our D is improving on a weekly basis. There aren't world beaters, we all agree on that, and they need help on that D, that's a given, but they aren't terrible.

Damn, check Will Compton's play in the first two weeks and where he's at right now??? Check the missed tackles lately? There's less and less of these... Now we all have to know that well, we're not gonna 3 and out every other O on all of there drives. That doesn't happen, other teams are making plays and have talent as well.

Now, when I go to NFL.com to watch a teaser about Green destroying Norman, bleh, that's just bull**** as obviously the guy haven't watched the game, and clicking on it, it's just to name one specific play with a great pass from Dalton (who's no scrub by any means) to a great receiver, so obviously those have to happen also.

10 hours ago, bh32 said:

yeah ok...never said they had to hold a team to zero points...look at the teams that have top 10 defenses,all of them are holding teams below 21 points a game...So again how is this a good defense?

Great, let's talk about that. Since Week 3 they have allowed: 20, 10, 20, 20 and 27 points. Oh and during that game against the Eagles 7 points were on a KR and 7 on an INT return. So they're rather good in that department. Now we can also talk that 1st overall D which is the Minnesota Vikings, that allowed the 31st offense, the Chiacgo Bears to 20 points! 403 yards and 7/14 on 3rd downs! And that's the best D in the NFL!

Now if the way to be a good D is to allow less than 20 points a game, then there's only 9 good D in the NFL, and 7 of them have only played 7 games. And since we stand at 19 in that department, we aren't that bad. We've got room for improvment, obviously, but we aren't that terrible... And if you take into account how did we suck in the first tw games, that shows you the kind of improvment we've been doing lately.

9 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Ok, let's go through this with exact yardage. Skins get the ball 1st and 10 at the CN 47. The PI was called on PG putting the ball at the WASH 34, not it's 1st and 20. He took a deep shot to Crowder but misses him. 2nd and 20 still at the WASH 43. His Crowder in the flat - a play that's been pretty successful - but this time the D sniffs it out and it goes for 1 yd. 3rd and 19 at the 44. Next he hits Red for 8 yds - MN makes a nice tackle. 4th and 11 at the CN 48 with 30 secs left. If you go for it and don't make it you give them the ball at the worst their 38 with 20+ secs. They only need to go about 30 yds (that's assuming worst case scenario) to give their guy a chance. I believe they had 1 TO left.

No they didn't had any TO left, they used their last one to ice our Kicker. So there was at least that, but I agree, not making that 4 and 11 would have given them one last opportunity, and with that insane Hail Mary catch from AJ Green last week, I can understand our coaches nor willing to give them a chance.

6 hours ago, zskins said:

The Raiders got 23 flags thrown at them. Almost as much as we got. The Raiders won!

I blame this lose on Gruden. Take the points instead of 4th and inch especially if you are going to go cute by calling a running play from the back field. This is where someone like Brady would have no problem moving the chains. QB sneak was the only option here. We would be up by 3 and no overtime and no tie and less mouth wash bought and used. 

Edit: Other option was to just run the ball one more time to get even closer for a kick. OR run after the icing and throw the Bengals off instead. Gruden still needs to learn how to think quick on his feet. 

Going for it on 4th was OK. We would have blame him in any way if he went for points because that's what we do.

On the other hand, I would even have been OK after they iced our kicker to throw in a fake FG play just to piss them off. I believe our team lacks those tricky plays when no one expects them. I mean, it's OT, you just need a FG to win, that's an easy one. Bleh, send a Fake, Way can make the throw and we've got guys that can catch it. Is Vernon Davis on the blocking unit? I wouldn't get mad if that failed, because, well that's gutsy call and fun to watch.

Edit: Furthermore on it, if the pass attempt is incomplete, or get a sack, you still have an opportunity to kick it again, with no icing.

Edit 2: well our blocking FG unit adds Kouandjio, Hood, Murphy, Sullivan and Smith. Not sure they can catch...

[aREDSKIN]

At this point,in 2016, any realistic NFL fan with a degree of longivity can reasonably say the NFL officiating product has been seriously compromised. It's been that way aslong as I've been watching.Vince Lombardi long. The NFL just does not care. It's all about the c-notes and how high a pile they can drive.Evey fan of evey team can point to an "officiated" play that cost their team a game, a season etc. The product on the field speaks for itself and until the consuming viewership revolts enough we'll get they same demonstrably incompetence and outright thievery we've all come to expect from the charlatrans that is the NFL.

i'm close to claiming it's just RIGGED but with the likes of Goodell, Mara and other assorted a-wipes running things I just might be there.

[Nfcbeasts4721]

9 hours ago, campbellcooleyconnection said:

Just hope Hopkins isn't ruined like Gano,Suisham Novak &others were & thrived with new teams.

I still have Hopkins back..I want him as our field goal kicker...ya see missed field goals..playoffs last year in Minnesota, and I have come to the realization that kicking field goals must be harder than it looks..maybe we shouldn't be so hard on them?...it's still not ok Hopkins god ****in damn it, u puts ya should have made it, our ****ing season now hinges on your miss YOU YOU YOU..ALL YOUR FAULT!!..no god damn place in the NFL for kickers any way ...but hey that's love and will be looking forward to seeing ya still on the team when we host the Viking's Hopkins!!

[Nfcbeasts4721]

1 hour ago, aREDSKIN said:

At this point,in 2016, any realistic NFL fan with a degree of longivity can reasonably say the NFL officiating product has been seriously compromised. It's been that way aslong as I've been watching.Vince Lombardi long. The NFL just does not care. It's all about the c-notes and how high a pile they can drive.Evey fan of evey team can point to an "officiated" play that cost their team a game, a season etc. The product on the field speaks for itself and until the consuming viewership revolts enough we'll get they same demonstrably incompetence and outright thievery we've all come to expect from the charlatrans that is the NFL.

i'm close to claiming it's just RIGGED but with the likes of Goodell, Mara and other assorted a-wipes running things I just might be there.

Maybe not so many big words next time k!?...umm that said I truly believe it is rigged...can we hit the commish and the NFL with an a bomb and start all over?...

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, aREDSKIN said:

At this point,in 2016, any realistic NFL fan with a degree of longivity can reasonably say the NFL officiating product has been seriously compromised. It's been that way aslong as I've been watching.Vince Lombardi long. The NFL just does not care. It's all about the c-notes and how high a pile they can drive.Evey fan of evey team can point to an "officiated" play that cost their team a game, a season etc. The product on the field speaks for itself and until the consuming viewership revolts enough we'll get they same demonstrably incompetence and outright thievery we've all come to expect from the charlatrans that is the NFL.

i'm close to claiming it's just RIGGED but with the likes of Goodell, Mara and other assorted a-wipes running things I just might be there.

Depends what kind of fans you are talking about.

Is it the oldest fans than have been watching it for 20/30 years? Or are those watching it since 10 years mostly? That product is nearly perfect for all those kids out there that dream about earning millions through fantasy football, those that cares about social media and whatsoever... For those olders guys, like me, it sucks. NFL is adjusting to its new viewers, and only them. Grandpa football is well behind us. I don't know if some have relatives that are old enough to follow football back in the 50' or something. Ask them what they thought of the football in the 80, they'll probably tell you, that they didn't like it either.

[Nfcbeasts4721]

17 hours ago, MartinC said:

I'm not a grammar Nazi (glass houses and all that) but you may have just set an ES record for number of spelling and grammar errors in one sentence there. You got 4 words misspelled out of 13 and used 2 and 'to' in the same sentence (and used the wrong form of to while you were at it).

Did I hit a home run?..lol...kinda what I was going for...I can't stand reading stuff and seeing horribly missed spelled words...I laugh at who ever wrote it or typed it but I think it's more irritating seeing someone point it out...the person writing/typing it is either going to take the time or not to edit there article...and if they don't they jus don't give a **** what ya think...

[Wildbunny]

2 minutes ago, Nfcbeasts4721 said:

Did I hit a home run?..lol...kinda what I was going for...I can't stand reading stuff and seeing horribly missed spelled words...I laugh at who ever wrote it or typed it but I think it's more irritating seeing someone point it out...the person writing/typing it is either going to take the time or not to edit there article...and if they don't they jus don't give a **** what ya think...

Well if you don't give a **** about trying to write correctly it means two things to me:

- A: you do not care much about others that might read your post. That's some respect you owe to each other around here.

- B: since you didn't take time to reread what you just write and type in an accordingly way, why should I spend time reading what the **** our are trying to say?

I can deal with typos, mistakes, that happen, I probably makes tons of them as well, but at least try to make it understandable to anyone around here. If you don't, if nobody cares, then, there's no point in having this board existing.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Nfcbeasts4721 said:

Did I hit a home run?..lol...kinda what I was going for...I can't stand reading stuff and seeing horribly missed spelled words...I laugh at who ever wrote it or typed it but I think it's more irritating seeing someone point it out...the person writing/typing it is either going to take the time or not to edit there article...and if they don't they jus don't give a **** what ya think...

No, reading it is absolutely more irritating, than seeing it pointed out. It's a message board. Everything is via words, spelling and grammar.

Nobody on here is that serious about it being an issue, but when **** like that post shows up, it seems like it was either written by a child, a drunk or a drunk child. It's difficult to read and annoying.

If it were a face to face conversation, you wouldn't speak like mushmouth. You'd want your point expressed correctly.

[Burgold]

19 hours ago, Xameil said:

When you know the refs are inconsistent and bad which we all knew from the end of the first half or sooner, then you know that you take the game out of their hands. We shouldn't have needed that second chance...hell, we shouldn't have even needed overtime if the defense could have stopped their offense.

Wouldn't have happened. If Hopkins makes the 34 yard field goal a ref would have called holding. He'd probably pick someone on the bench just to rub salt in and push us back. Hell, we had a defensive holding call on a running play. I'm not sure I've ever seen that. Might be the first time in NFL history that the refs actually flagged a player for holding because he tackled a running back with the ball.