How good could we be without these game killing mistakes/turnovers?

[JSSkinz]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe, but I'm not gonna kill Cousins for that one. The majority of the blame goes to Jones with some on the C/OL for not holding up in protection. Its 3rd and 1, how does your C get driven that far back that quick?

 

I'm not out to kill Cousins, the guy is so close.  It just seems like he has 1 huge blunder per game, he wasn't the reason we lost and I'm impressed with the way he marches us down the field when the game is on the line.

 

2 minutes ago, kleese said:

Yeah that's not really on KC in my mind. If it was 2nd down maybe you eat it but he's just trying to get Jones the there. Even if KC eats it it's still gonna be Lions ball, maybe a 20-25 yard difference in field position. 

 

It was a 3rd and 1 at Detroit's 34 yard line, even with a 2 or 3 yard loss we could nail that FG or with a minimal loss even go for it.

 

[PortisBetts]

6 hours ago, Bang said:

They had a bump after a known fumbler fumbled again, and a guy who really has shown absolutely no reason to be on the field commits a Harry High School penalty.

These are the two things i lay on coaching. Matt Jones, enough, the guy can't do it. He can't hold the ball, refuses to put two hands on it, can't run straight ahead, and shies away from contact. his first fumble came because he was doing his damned split step hop skip as the ball was being given to him instead of running forward. He constantly does this, removes all momentum from himself. This time he does it mid-handoff and loses the ball.

The second one, just put two hands on the mother****ing BALL. I do not understand why this is so hard for him to get. PUT. TWO. HANDS. ON. THE. MOTHER****ING. BALL.

the third one wasn't his fault,, just one of those things that happens on a day like yesterday. Slop leads to slop. Accidents happen.

But the second one loses the game. Fumbling into the end zone is inexcusable.

Ryan Grant has absolutely no value to this team. None. Can't catch. Can't run routes. Can't line up properly Can't stay on his feet. His penalty yesterday wiped out a huge play... potential game changing play.

Cut him today. I'll take my chances with Rashad Ross.

 

that said, in the losses, if we'd have had some of the bounces go our way things maybe are different. Ball bangs off of Breeland's ribs..  fumble rolls right o the Lions.   Same thing against Pittsburgh.. the bounces haven't gone our way. And nothing can control that. 

~Bang

This is it. Matt Jones continues to fumble away his opportunities and should see less and less of the ball. I have never seen a 230lb back stutter step as much as he does. For the love of god, make a decision and run through it. Even when he is 1 on 1 with a 190lb dback, he is still trying to dance around him instead of going through him. We have another undrafted rookie who has such better vision it is unreal. It is like night and day watching Kelley run and then watching Matt Jones run. Jones runs in mud side to side, Kelley is just constantly moving forward.

Ryan Grant, when is this experiment over? Not only did he commit every folly you mentioned, but on top of that, he is nearly a dead give away that we are running the ball. Nearly every single time he is on the field, the defense knows what is coming. And when we actually decided to pass, he either drops it, lines up incorrectly, or has some other error. Completely 0 productivity from him.

[Warhead36]

Grant is literally the NFL equivalent of garbage. I'd rather not have him on the field at all and play with just 10 guys. He's a negative player.

[pjfootballer]

Grant is our new Taylor Jacobs.

[sonofzorn187]

Well Cousins throws a pick in the red zone with a little more than 10 minutes to play and the Cowboys comeback and punch it in making it 27-23.

Matt Jones fumbles 3 times and once at the goal line and Hopkins hits the top of the upright. When Cousins runs that ball in to take the lead he should've been either lining the ball up to seal a FG or in the victory formation. Team has to clean up the untimely turnovers.

Yes the run D is pretty bad and we have some suspect secondary play but this team has thrown away 2 games. Now it's going over to jolly old London in a must win game IMO. If you beat Detroit and lose in London you're not as concerned but that didn't happen and we flat out have to figure out a way to beat a Bengals team that see an opening with Big Ben out for a few more weeks.

 

[Cliffmark1]

"Why aren't we winning the division by fifty games?!"

[campbellcooleyconnection]

This team never grabs an opportunity to make things easier for themselves..... never...for like 25 years now.

[elkabong82]

Cut Grant, bench Jones, get Ross involved. Having 2 deep threats on the field and competent runners should allow this offense to thrive. Jones killed 2 potential scoring drives.

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe, but I'm not gonna kill Cousins for that one. The majority of the blame goes to Jones with some on the C/OL for not holding up in protection. Its 3rd and 1, how does your C get driven that far back that quick?

I think the announcers mentioned that with the C on the move, the OG needed to attack the gap by the NT to prevent penetration but instead swung outside which let the defender in. Still, Cousins managed to get the ball into Jones' breadbasket. He has to secure that. He had 2 like that in the game.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe, but I'm not gonna kill Cousins for that one. The majority of the blame goes to Jones with some on the C/OL for not holding up in protection. Its 3rd and 1, how does your C get driven that far back that quick?

 

9 hours ago, kleese said:

Yeah that's not really on KC in my mind. If it was 2nd down maybe you eat it but he's just trying to get Jones the there. Even if KC eats it it's still gonna be Lions ball, maybe a 20-25 yard difference in field position. 

Eh, I know it's fun to zero in on one or two scapegoats after a loss like this, but that specific play is 10% on Long, 85% on Cousins, and 5% (at most) on Jones. Long and Jones made physical mistakes and Cousins made the mental one, which is tougher to forgive. Everything about that hand off changed as Cousins was going to the ground, so I can easily excuse Jones for not being able to make a split-second adjustment to handle it cleanly. I don't care what down it is there (maybe outside of 4th down). Cousins has to protect the ball and just go to the turf on that play. 

Edit: By giving Cousins the majority of the blame on that play, I still would give him a B+ for the game. In my mind, he should be credited with a 4th quarter comeback for leading two touchdown drives in the final 8 minutes. That was incredible and sadly it won't really be credited to him since we ultimately lost the game. He played great, but the one fumble was mostly on him. 

[kost203]

Without the two red zone turnovers. Aka cousins pick and jones fumble last game. We only lose the steelers game and we're in charge of this division! But we're not and we are what we are 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, kost203 said:

Without the two red zone turnovers. Aka cousins pick and jones fumble last game. We only lose the steelers game and we're in charge of this division! But we're not and we are what we are 

We could also easily have lost the Giants, Ravens, and Browns games.

Welcome to the NFL.

[kost203]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We could also easily have lost the Giants, Ravens, and Browns games.

Welcome to the NFL.

RAvens yes 50-50 hindesite 

 Giants game no. There were allot of plays that dictated the game. From the fake punt, hit out of bounds, d Jackson catching the ball for the td that seeing it in person didn't think it was a tv but replay over and over at home. His hand was under the ball. 

 

Browns game not sure i was overseas in Europe and missed the game. 

[skins island connection]

 Success this early in the season is unusual for this team, so I could see a way where they're not wrapped around the concept of expecting to win. ****, we haven't expected them to win hardly any games at all, but they have done a lot better than many of us thought.

I've seen Jones running sluggish, hesitating at the line, etc, and then Thompson or Kelly comes in, hits the hole, energizes the offense, then he seemed to get what he had to do. But he should know exactly what to do, and he's not running like a back who wants the starting role.

I think if he's starting against Cincy and he continues to follow this pattern and the other backs step in and get the job done, Gruden will have to make a change, because the outrage that will ensue if this clown fumbles again will be deafening.

[sonofzorn187]

5 hours ago, kost203 said:

Without the two red zone turnovers. Aka cousins pick and jones fumble last game. We only lose the steelers game and we're in charge of this division! But we're not and we are what we are 

This team is the same position where the Cowboys are and we are better.

I realize that a fumble or INT will happen but we've got a knack for the untimely

[Koolblue13]

Didn't parcels say every 100 yards of penalties is 7 points? 

If true, how many of those 4 wins do we have if the opponent wasn't penalized so much?

 

[Wildbunny]

Without the killing mistakes or turnovers or penalties....

We would be 7-0, have won the last 25 Superbowls and match Dan T. weekly prediction of 74-3.

[PortisBetts]

All the follies we have had this year and we still have a chance to go 5-3 at the mid way point. I am pretty sure every single one of us would have signed up for that in the beginning of the year. Opportunity is still there for us, just need to keep it moving and put the mistakes behind us and limit any future mistakes.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

All the follies we have had this year and we still have a chance to go 5-3 at the mid way point. I am pretty sure every single one of us would have signed up for that in the beginning of the year. Opportunity is still there for us, just need to keep it moving and put the mistakes behind us and limit any future mistakes.

Yep, regardless of how things turn out down the stretch, we have followed up a nice season (9-7) with a stable/above average first-half of the season. We haven't had that type of extended play in a long time. The last couple times we've done so, it hasn't even been with the same coaching staff (2007-2008 was similar but a lot changed in that off-season). 

[Rskins06]

Not disappointed at all so far this season.  Yes, if not for a couple of mistakes, this team would / could be 6-1, but, they are definitely a much better team than we have seen in the past and if history says anything, we are in for a ride the 2nd half of the season.

I would like to see more carries from CT and RK at this point.  Even would like to see KM activated when ready.  MJ has proven unreliable.

[TSO]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Didn't parcels say every 100 yards of penalties is 7 points? 

If true, how many of those 4 wins do we have if the opponent wasn't penalized so much?

 

 

You keep mentioning this without mentioning the penalties committed that are a product of our play. 

When the other team holds, it's usually because our guy won. When they get a pass interfence, same thing. False starts can happen because they're worried about  the guy lined up across from them.

Kirk generates a lot of roughing calls not because he's lucky, but because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and so often that it frustrates the crap out of opposing pass rushers, so they want to hit him so bad when they get close. 

You keep acting like all of their penalties have come from them randomly choosing to do something stupid that we had nothing to do with. 

[TouchdownSkin]

Watching Matt Jones run with the ball makes my stomach hurt.  He just slings it around and doesn't secure it.  I'd be happy to see him sit on the bench until he changes his technique.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

You keep mentioning this without mentioning the penalties committed that are a product of our play. 

When the other team holds, it's usually because our guy won. When they get a pass interfence, same thing. False starts can happen because they're worried about  the guy lined up across from them.

Kirk generates a lot of roughing calls not because he's lucky, but because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and so often that it frustrates the crap out of opposing pass rushers, so they want to hit him so bad when they get close. 

You keep acting like all of their penalties have come from them randomly choosing to do something stupid that we had nothing to do with. 

So the same is true for us?

[TSO]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So the same is true for us?

 

Of course, but I'm not sure how that affects your position or mine. But, I'll play. 

 If we're committing less or coming out on top because the other team is committing more, it's deserved then and not something to be downplayed like you're doing. If we overcome our penalties better than they do, that's also a positive factor and we earned that. 

You sinply can't make the claim that we're winning because the other team is committing too many penalties without stating that it's largely a product of our play. Unless you're arguing that every one of their penalties, or even the majority of them, came as a result of totally random stupidity. Tough task, have fun with that. 

So, yeah, there are exceptions, like someone committing a totally boneheaded penalty. Or a total bull**** call by the refs. Those go both ways, though.

 But most penalties like holding, pass interference, even roughing the passer, false starts and offsides often are a result of frustration due to the opposing side's successes. You can't take that away from the team and make it out like they're just fortunate or something. 

[GoDeep81]

One of the final (and hardest) hurdles in becoming a consistent "good" team, is cleaning up the mental errors and stop shooting off your feet.. I don't know how some teams get over it, but coaching seems to usually come into play.. Good/great teams mimic their coaching.. For that reason, Im not all that convinced we'll be able to clear that final hurdle. I view Jay and Co being at, or close to, their ceiling unfortunately..

[Koolblue13]

You are either becoming the king of excuses or no accountability.