More Custody Stuff - Rant - Venting

[codeorama]

Ok, first and foremost, let me apologize for this post.  Its personal and I'll admit, some of this is venting, but also, I value the advice and opinions I get here on ES.  Lots of real friends.  I have posted my personal situation in the past and the info I've received has been helpful.  

 

So, here we go: 

To try to organize this better and stay away from mindless rambling like I'm doing now, I'll try to stick to quick bullets.

-Son is 10, mom left when he was 2

-We agreed to joint legal custody, but I would be the custodial parent. In VA, the first 2 years after the separation determines what is the "norm" for the child's life/custody.  For the past 7+ years, he has lived with me only. He has never lived with her. When she lived in VA, she barely saw him much. The MOST consistent time she ever spent with him was on mondays, she'd pick him up for school and spend an hour with him before she had to bring him back home and go to work.

-She moved away when he was 5.  We had a verbal agreement at the time of the divorce that we would both live close by to make sure his life was not disrupted. It was important to me that he had a consistent home and school and was not bouncing around.  

-After about a year, she moved to Florida.  

-She has consistently seen him 3-4 days (or less) during Christmas Break and 5-10 days max during the summer.  As i've stated before, she has wanted me to put him on a plane by himself but I have refused. So she has to come get him and bring him back.  

 

-NOW: She wants more time. She wants him for 2 whole weeks during the summer.  While I'm not really all that thrilled, I'm not personally opposed. (friends have told me not to do it because the normal time has been established and if I allow more, she will continue to extend it.)

-Son doesn't want any part of 2 weeks.  You can see the look on his face when his mother calls (which isn't much) or when we talk about him going to visit. He clearly doesn't want to.  He doesn't just say this to me. He has told other people. As I posted before, he has told others that he doesn't have a mom, she's just someone he's forced to go visit.

-I've known he doesn't want to go that long so I told the mom that there wasn't a time period that long, that he has baseball tournaments every other weekend. I suggested that she have him for 10 days in Florida and then stay in VA for 4 days and watch him play in the tournament.  She wants no part of that. Then, when 2 weeks in July won't work, she wants 2 weeks in August, but Football starts on Aug1 and my son doesn't want to miss that.  He doesn't want to miss any of his baseball tournaments either. 

-IN short, I personally am Ok with him visiting her for 2 weeks but he doesn't want to and personally, I don't blame him.  He's been a baby sitter for her, he doesn't have a good time. I recently shared how his mother's mother spent 2 days with him and took him to Water Country, but wasn't able to do anything because he had to babysit a 3 year old.  

-There's lots more, but I don't want to make this a novel, it kind of already is.

 

Here's where the new stuff starts:

-Last night, she contacted me because she needed to book the flights to pick my son up and all. I told her he had a state tournament that and needed to be back by july 8th.  Tournament starts on the 9th. Told her she should just stay in VA with friends and watch him play. (She never has, he's pretty good). 

-She flips out, goes on rant, makes it out as if I don't want him to spend time with her.

-I tried to break it to her gently that he said specifically that he liked it better when she visited here, he doesn't want to fly and 1 week was long enough.  

-She claims that he always has a fantastic time and doesn't want to leave.

-Son and I had heart to heart. I let him know that I would not be hurt if he wanted to spend time with his mom etc... He breaks down crying, says he hates going and he only says that stuff because his mom makes him feel bad. He said "It doesn't feel right telling her the truth".  I'm in the same boat, I've tried to avoid telling her the deal, I've used the sports to try to make her realize that he would be missing things he's been training all season for.  She doesn't care.

-This is where she pissed me off:  She say that "We as parents have to decide what's right for him and he has to get over it".  It took every ounce of my fiber to not go off, but I didn't, I stayed calm. She has done 0% parenting.  ZERO and that's  being nice.  Where is she to help him/make him do his homework, study etc... My son is great, but as all parents know, there are struggles and I've been on my own. No help at all.  In second grade, he didn't like reading and his teacher was out on maternity leave almost the whole year, he had a long term sub (not a real teacher) and they were going to test him for SPED because his reading was so low.  I nearly killed myself teaching him to read and now he's testing above his grade level. Where was she??  

 

-So, at the end of the phone call, she says she might have to take this to court.  Of course I'm afraid that a court could rule that she gets him for the summer or some other crazy stuff like that.  My son was just breakdown crying, saying wouldn't a judge listen to what he wants etc..

-Sad part is, she is going to cause him to hate her.  He knows she manipulates him and uses guilt to get him to act happy etc... 

 

-I'm hoping she will realize that she has an uphill legal battle if she wants to change the way things have been for nearly 8 years and I know money is an issue for her.  I don't think she realizes that in court, she is not going to look very good, especially when you take under consideration the lack of judgement she has shown in issues in the past that I've posted about previously.

 

-But no matter, you NEVER know when it comes to court.  So that scares me.

 

 

 

[Bang]

If she's as deep into child support arrears as you mentioned before, welcome her to court. Hold the door for her.

Pull out her chair and make sure she's comfy.

You will win, you will get the money your son deserves, and she will get the slap she needs.

 

~Bang

[rictus58]

Things may look bleak....but let me regale you with a tale of my own....

Back in 2005, my wife and I began to watch our niece. My wife’s sister’s daughter. My SIL was a ****ty horrible person. Drug abuser. Prostitute. Thief. We went to court, and got full legal and physical custody. Visitation was sporadic at best. We always showed up at the agreed upon location. SIL usually didn’t. By the time my niece was old enough to know what was going on, she didn’t want to participate in the visitations either. “mommy isn’t even going to show up”. Which she usually didn’t. This was our life for 8 years. The father was never really ever involved in her life. Cut to Oct 2015. SIL dies of drug overdose. Praise Jesus. Biological father is still nowhere to be found. Hasn’t seen my niece since she was 4. She’s 11 years old at this point. So my wife and I begin Adoption proceedings. We hired a process server to track down the Bio dad. Served him with Adoption papers. We’re thinking…he won’t object to the adoption. He’s not seen her in 7 years. Son of a **** objected to the adoption. We went to court. The judge said, “go see an arbiter…you don’t want me deciding this for you”. So we went to an arbitrator. On my Dollar. Not his. Mother****er. Sat there for 3 hours. Turns out, he just wanted to be heard. We agreed to some minor concessions. We all signed the order. 60 days later we’re back in court and the adoption is finalized.

So why am I typing all this? Throughout the past 10 years, there were times I thought we were going to end up on the losing side.  Ultimately, in family court, they are going to advocate for the best interests of the child. IF (big if here), your ex does decide to pursue this, it’s going to cost her a lot. In attorney fees, and travel expenses. If she goes this route, it might be in your best interest to hire a lawyer to advocate for your son specifically. I’m not sure what the laws are where you are, but some courts will take the child’s wishes into account. Sometimes, they hold a lot of weight with the court.

Keep your head up. Stay positive. So far her track record, by your account, is to follow the path of least resistance.   

[LD0506]

At 10 your son has a clue, he knows what's what. Have a lil faith in the way you've raised him and let him be heard. IMO the biggest mistake here is essentially lying to spare her feelings, you've enabled her POV wherein she isn't the problem. I understand it's difficult but just ripping the BandAid off and telling her the naked truth is in your best interests and more importantly your son's. Don't let her bully you with threats of court, etc., it sounds like you have done the heavy lifting all along, this is just one more example of it. It all pays off in the long run. Your son will be far less hurt by her actions than he will be fortified by seeing you fighting for his psyche.

 

Good luck, ain't an easy situation.

[codeorama]

Things may look bleak....but let me regale you with a tale of my own....

Back in 2005, my wife and I began to watch our niece. My wife’s sister’s daughter. My SIL was a ****ty horrible person. Drug abuser. Prostitute. Thief. We went to court, and got full legal and physical custody. Visitation was sporadic at best. We always showed up at the agreed upon location. SIL usually didn’t. By the time my niece was old enough to know what was going on, she didn’t want to participate in the visitations either. “mommy isn’t even going to show up”. Which she usually didn’t. This was our life for 8 years. The father was never really ever involved in her life. Cut to Oct 2015. SIL dies of drug overdose. Praise Jesus. Biological father is still nowhere to be found. Hasn’t seen my niece since she was 4. She’s 11 years old at this point. So my wife and I begin Adoption proceedings. We hired a process server to track down the Bio dad. Served him with Adoption papers. We’re thinking…he won’t object to the adoption. He’s not seen her in 7 years. Son of a **** objected to the adoption. We went to court. The judge said, “go see an arbiter…you don’t want me deciding this for you”. So we went to an arbitrator. On my Dollar. Not his. Mother****er. Sat there for 3 hours. Turns out, he just wanted to be heard. We agreed to some minor concessions. We all signed the order. 60 days later we’re back in court and the adoption is finalized.

So why am I typing all this? Throughout the past 10 years, there were times I thought we were going to end up on the losing side.  Ultimately, in family court, they are going to advocate for the best interests of the child. IF (big if here), your ex does decide to pursue this, it’s going to cost her a lot. In attorney fees, and travel expenses. If she goes this route, it might be in your best interest to hire a lawyer to advocate for your son specifically. I’m not sure what the laws are where you are, but some courts will take the child’s wishes into account. Sometimes, they hold a lot of weight with the court.

Keep your head up. Stay positive. So far her track record, by your account, is to follow the path of least resistance.   

 

 

Wow, that sucks but good for you that it worked out.

For me, I don't have money for legal expenses.  But I don't think my ex really does either. And travel will cost her a lot as well.

What sucks is that if she just lived in state, none of this would be an issue because she could easily see him whenever she wanted, but the reality is that she still wouldn't see him much more.

I'm a teacher, I don't make a ton of money, She left me with a crap load of debt.  It has taken me a while just to be in a better position, but I still stress about having money if my truck or now, my home AC breaks.  I don't have money for stuff like that and I sure enough don't have money for a lawyer.  

Most people have said that I have all the cards in my favor but one or 2 others have said that if we go to court, she will get way more time with him which means, he's going to have to give up some of the sports he loves. 

[rictus58]

Most people have said that I have all the cards in my favor but one or 2 others have said that if we go to court, she will get way more time with him which means, he's going to have to give up some of the sports he loves. 

People have this notion that the guy will usually get screwed in court. I think a lot of times...that is true. But she's essentially abandonded her son by moving a few states away. By refusing to be a part of his life on anything other than her own terms. Family Court judges are quite good at sniffing out the bull**** selfishness that people try to hide.

All you can do for now is hold steady. Worry about court if it gets to that point.

[codeorama]

At 10 your son has a clue, he knows what's what. Have a lil faith in the way you've raised him and let him be heard. IMO the biggest mistake here is essentially lying to spare her feelings, you've enabled her POV wherein she isn't the problem. I understand it's difficult but just ripping the BandAid off and telling her the naked truth is in your best interests and more importantly your son's. Don't let her bully you with threats of court, etc., it sounds like you have done the heavy lifting all along, this is just one more example of it. It all pays off in the long run. Your son will be far less hurt by her actions than he will be fortified by seeing you fighting for his psyche.

 

Good luck, ain't an easy situation.

 

 

Thank you.  its interesting that you say I shouldn't pull punches etc... I've tried to not tell her what he really has been saying because first, I don't think she would believe me.  She's really out of touch.  She honestly thinks that seeing him 10-12 days a year over the past 8 years has been enough for her to be a real parent and have a connection.  He doesn't feel any connection to her other than she says she's his mom.  He doesn't remember when she actually lived in the same house.  He only knows seeing her once in a while for short spurts.

This is the closest I've come to pulling the band aid off as you've said. My only hesitations are that once I do this, I'm literally relying on my son to tell the truth, which sucks.  He's a good kid and don't want to hurt ANYONE's feelings. We talked about it last night and he was adamant about how he feels and how he doesn't want to go etc... He was scared at the prospect of court and if she was given more time.

I"m not sure how to talk to him about this. I've tried to just be up front, I've told him he doesn't have to feel bad about his feelings, but I've tried to make sure that he's not pleasing me. I don't want him to say something because he thinks thats what I want him to say. I have basically expressed to him that I just want him to be happy and if he wants to see his mom more, that's ok.  He doesn't budge on his position but he hates talking to his mom.  Like I said before, when she calls, he gets this look on his face like he'd rather go to the dentist.  I've had to ask him to talk more and be more polite. He usually just answers her questions in one word responses. I actually have felt bad

People have this notion that the guy will usually get screwed in court. I think a lot of times...that is true. But she's essentially abandonded her son by moving a few states away. By refusing to be a part of his life on anything other than her own terms. Family Court judges are quite good at sniffing out the bull**** selfishness that people try to hide.

All you can do for now is hold steady. Worry about court if it gets to that point.

 

Thanks man, that's pretty good advice. I'm a "worrier" by nature.  I hate it. I don't need stress in my life and it sucks.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I don't want to get to deep into my experiences for personal reasons but when I was that age (age of your child) I went into court and had a 1 on 1 with the judge.  I think there was a recorder in the room but it was just me and the judge, not parents or anything.  The judge asked me what my thoughts were, what I wanted, etc.  I don't know if they still do that stuff but if they do, I would push for that.  To me, the kids opinion should weigh the most assuming they are old enough to have input.  And I was deemed old enough to have input at that age so I don't know why your kid wouldn't be. 

[rictus58]

 

 

Thanks man, that's pretty good advice. I'm a "worrier" by nature.  I hate it. I don't need stress in my life and it sucks.

My wife is the same way. Worries about things..invents scenarios that haven't happened to worry about. I spent 6 months talking her down from every imagined problem. Something which did worry us....i think the bio dad could have asked us to pay for his attorney fees in the adoption case. Since we were the one who filed...couldn't hurt for you to check with a lawyer to see if that would be possible for your situation.

[Bang]

the courts do not look kindly on people behind in child support,, especially if they walk into their courtroom demanding privileges.

 

Take a free consultation with a lawyer.. bring all the evidence of her failure to pay.

 

 

~Bang

[codeorama]

I don't want to get to deep into my experiences for personal reasons but when I was that age (age of your child) I went into court and had a 1 on 1 with the judge.  I think there was a recorder in the room but it was just me and the judge, not parents or anything.  The judge asked me what my thoughts were, what I wanted, etc.  I don't know if they still do that stuff but if they do, I would push for that.  To me, the kids opinion should weigh the most assuming they are old enough to have input.  And I was deemed old enough to have input at that age so I don't know why your kid wouldn't be. 

 

 

That's what I would hope for as well.  I've read different accounts. I've tried to visit a lot of forums dealing about this stuff. Many seem to say that the judges are more apt to send you do mediators, others say they listen to the kids, others say they don't.  My son is old enough and knows what's up.  I haven't ever influenced his opinion of his mom. I've been very careful.  Its just the fear of the unknown.

[codeorama]

the courts do not look kindly on people behind in child support,, especially if they walk into their courtroom demanding privileges.

 

Take a free consultation with a lawyer.. bring all the evidence of her failure to pay.

 

 

~Bang

 

That's not as clear cut, sorry if I made it seem as such.

In the divorce, the lawyer did a basic computation of how much she owed using the courts formula, it was 330 a month then, when she was a waitress.    Personally, that's a lot. However, the ex and I agree that I would not file in exchange for her not pushing the issue with more visitation.  We specifically had this talk. I told her from the get go that I was against him spending prolonged periods of time away from home.  We agree to live in the same city, again, verbal agreements are legal in VA,  because of this. As long as she lived close by, she could see him every day and bring him back home etc.. I wanted stability. its never been about him not seeing her.  But as I've stated, even when she lived here, she barely saw him. She worked nights. He was in preschool, then school.  

 

About 2 years ago, I told her that if she was going to push for more time, I'd file for child support.  She backed off.  IF she pushes this, I will file and she actually should make more money now. She tried to be a stay at home mom but her new sugar daddy didn't go for that so now she's selling real estate.  I can't imagine her being all that successful as she's really lazy, but who knows.

 

For me, I've never filed because I've used it as leverage.  She knows that's hanging over her.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Can you get her to register here so I can hear her side of the story?

 

Thanks.

[balki1867]

the courts do not look kindly on people behind in child support,, especially if they walk into their courtroom demanding privileges.

 

Take a free consultation with a lawyer.. bring all the evidence of her failure to pay.

 

This. I'M NOT A LEGAL EXPERT BY ANY STRETCH, but i'd imagine even just reminding her of this via your lawyer would be enough to scare her off from taking you to court or asking for any change to your current arrangement.

[codeorama]

Can you get her to register here so I can hear her side of the story?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Here, I'll just let her use mine:

 

Code's Ex:  i was the greatest wife and mother ever, I wasn't lazy, I just think that code should have done everything including taking care of our child while I just hang out with friends and have a great time. Now that I'm older, I actually want to see my son, but only on my terms. I don't care if my son has fun, he just needs to spend time with me so he can baby sit my 4 year old.  I have important things to do like watch tv, he can play with a 4 year old for 2 weeks out of the year... geez... :eyeroll:  Codeorama claims I'm not responsible, how was I to know that an 11 year old kid wasn't responsible enough to watch a 5 year old kid at a water park... we punished the 11 year old, we took away some of his stuff for leaving my son alone in a waterpark because he thought it was funny.  

[LD0506]

I'd say that the fact you anguish over this is a pretty good indication of where your heart is, it isn't easy and shouldn't be, Life is often hard, there's no getting around that, and while I appreciate your situation and your wanting to protect your son and his feelings as much as possible there just isn't some easy way out.

 

Are there others (family, friends, etc) close to you that have a connection to your son, an uncle that he trusts, etc., that might get involved to help be a support system for him. No matter what, you're the Dad, anything you say or do is going to be colored by that, hearing some of it, even simple stuff that no one disagrees with, but from another direction might help him see the bigger picture and his place in it.

 

Seems like a man-to-man moment here, can't speak to actually the relationship you have with him but this is tough, he needs to understand that and get that you are there for him, always have been, and will are there for him to help him through this in whatever way possible. You need to explain that things aren't going to magically change or fix themselves, that this is one of those times when someone has to act, and unfortunately he's been nominated for the role by his mother's selfish insistence on being a parent when she hasn't earned the title.

[codeorama]

I'd say that the fact you anguish over this is a pretty good indication of where your heart is, it isn't easy and shouldn't be, Life is often hard, there's no getting around that, and while I appreciate your situation and your wanting to protect your son and his feelings as much as possible there just isn't some easy way out.

 

Are there others (family, friends, etc) close to you that have a connection to your son, an uncle that he trusts, etc., that might get involved to help be a support system for him. No matter what, you're the Dad, anything you say or do is going to be colored by that, hearing some of it, even simple stuff that no one disagrees with, but from another direction might help him see the bigger picture and his place in it.

 

Seems like a man-to-man moment here, can't speak to actually the relationship you have with him but this is tough, he needs to understand that and get that you are there for him, always have been, and will are there for him to help him through this in whatever way possible. You need to explain that things aren't going to magically change or fix themselves, that this is one of those times when someone has to act, and unfortunately he's been nominated for the role by his mother's selfish insistence on being a parent when she hasn't earned the title.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

We had that man to man moment last night. He cried. He said he doesn't like "talks". I had to calm him down and let him know that talks were not bad.  I shared with him that one of the things that I don't like about my dad is that he would never talk to me.  Even to this day, we can't communicate without it being escalated because he's just like that.  I let my son know that the ONLY thing I care about his him and what's best for him and that we have to have that relationship where we can talk about anything, no matter how difficult. 

 

It was better after that.  He opened up more and he cried when he said it just doesn't feel right telling his mother the truth about how he feels. I explained to him that that was a good thing. He was worried about her feelings. But the truth is, she's not worried about his feelings. She doesn't ask him if he really wants to come see her. I honestly think deep down she knows the truth.  That kind of explains her tone with me yesterday.  She literally said she doesn't care what he wants, she is entitled to see him and his voice shouldn't matter etc... yeah, she literally said that.  

[drtdrums]

Code,

She doesn't have a leg to stand on. Don't let her bs manipulate the situation into what she wants. Your position is both reasonable and almost certainly legally tenable.

And if she wants to go to court without having paid child support, I'm going to guess the retainer costs up front will be a little steep for her as well.

When my sister died, my mom and I went through an extensive legal battle with my nephew's biological father who hadn't been present (1-2 days per year, 5 year stretch of no visits) but had paid child support. It was legally dicier than one would think but that was ONLY because of the child support having been paid.

Your ex is dead in the water IMO. I'd tell her that as the parent responsible for his care that you've determined that the best thing for him is x, and if she doesn't like it, she's welcome to pursue legal recourse.

[codeorama]

Code,

She doesn't have a leg to stand on. Don't let her bs manipulate the situation into what she wants. Your position is both reasonable and almost certainly legally tenable.

And if she wants to go to court without having paid child support, I'm going to guess the retainer costs up front will be a little steep for her as well.

When my sister died, my mom and I went through an extensive legal battle with my nephew's biological father who hadn't been present (1-2 days per year, 5 year stretch of no visits) but had paid child support. It was legally dicier than one would think but that was ONLY because of the child support having been paid.

Your ex is dead in the water IMO. I'd tell her that as the parent responsible for his care that you've determined that the best thing for him is x, and if she doesn't like it, she's welcome to pursue legal recourse.

 

 

 

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to share the info.  Common sense makes me feel like I've done everything correctly and I've done what I have out of the best interest of my son.  It just sucks

[balki1867]

I honestly think deep down she knows the truth. 

 

Obviously I don't know you're ex- as well as your do, but you'd be surprised.  I recently realized (very late in life) that things that are intuitive to me are not as intuitive to others, especially with respect to how treating others affects those people. Some people really are that dense and don't realize those things until you spell them out.

[Riggo-toni]

People who are as narcissistic as your wife appears to be are often in complete denial of how selfish/self-serving their actions are.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

As someone who is currently in the middle of four court cases, all tied together, with custody being one of them, here is my advice.

Save every single piece of evidence you get. No matter how small it is, capture it, preserve it and make sure you don't give the other side anything they can use against you.

At the end of the day, in court, it's what you can prove, now what's true.

[velocet]

Code, 

 

Can you get her to register here so I can hear her side of the story?

 

Thanks.

 

There is a wise message in this quote beyond the manifest content.  Please consider there may be a few who have read the previous thread and this one and well... the ex appears to be  too much a caricature composed of a single and irredeemably nefarious dimension.  If you believe too deeply in the depiction you are presenting to others then your formulation of strategy may suffer.

 

An impartially performed self-diagnostic of your thoughts about your ex and how they are expressed may serve you well.

[Xameil]

Hey code,

I dont know what the laws are down there, but I can tell you up here when 2 parents goto court, the child gets a law guardian. That law guardian will talk with the child alone about what the child wants, and will make their recommendation to the court. So your child's opinion does effect where they will live.

As mentioned, she's behind in child support, not only is that a big negative as to visitation, but that is defying a court order which is against the law. In NY, she'd be facing jail time.

[btfoom]

the courts do not look kindly on people behind in child support,, especially if they walk into their courtroom demanding privileges.

 

Take a free consultation with a lawyer.. bring all the evidence of her failure to pay.

 

 

~Bang

 

 

Bingo.  This is exactly what I was going to say.  I know you are fearful of the court system, but you should speak with someone who has actual knowledge of family law and can tell you how things would play out.

 

Find one who will talk to you for free/low cost.  Tell the facts only, leave no fact out, no matter how you think it may affect you.  Find out the facts before you go further.

 

If lawyer agrees, don't let you son go and take it on yourself to fight this battle.  He's hurting enough and, tough as it is, you are the dad/adult, so step in and help him as much as possible.

 

Good luck and please keep posting here, even if just to vent.