Discussions of a less heavily criticized OL

[bird_1972]

Licht will be starting C this season but we will go younger at LG is my guess.

 

Ugh ... this is true but it still bums me out.

 

We need to upgrade at this position next year for sure.

[skinny21]

Ugh ... this is true but it still bums me out.

We need to upgrade at this position next year for sure.

Agree we need to be looking to the future (and improvement), but I think Lichtensteiger will be just fine this year... presuming he starts.

[SkinsGuy]

You're probably right, but I have heard it debated. Forgot that Hannifan came in so late. Felt like he was here for a while. He must have served under Norv too, right?

 

Hanifan was o-line coach until 1996.

[CommDownMan]

So, I'm sure the talk will continue to be dominated by LG/C battle and back-ups, this is worth posting from the Breaking News section.

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/freak-nature-trent-williams-does-pull-ups-huge-weights-his-waist-washington-redskins

[Peregrine]

I don't think that all 4 players are "vying" to win the spot.  Its very healthy to have that type of competition in camp.  Especially involving veterans.  And as evidence that we do have a center I will say last year Litch did well in his limited action and Ribs stepped up well for the team.  Whats wrong with them battling it out in camp?

But see, I would disagree that its healthy to have competition in the sense that its a good sign.  It IS healthy to have competition at a position that used to be terrible, as thats a step up.  However in most cases, only one player has been the starter, and if there is competition, that means a backup who has rarely played is probably in the discussion.  If we had competition at say, QB for Cousins, we would not feel very good about that position at all.

 

It all sounds really well and good to say "we have competition", and players are "battling it out", but the actual reality of it, that we as Redskins fans have seen many many times over the years, is that really means we dont have a sure starter.  Nobody is talking about comeptition for Kerrigan, Cousins, Reed, Jackson, Williams, Norman, Breeland etc.  And we like it that way...

[skinny21]

Well sure, it's better to have a stud than have competition... but if you don't have a stud, the next best thing is an open competition. Of course there's more nuance to that - a mix of vets and youth is a better competition than a bunch of 30-somethings, for example.

Somewhat unfortunately for us, even though we have a nice blend of youth/experience, our "old guy" is the favorite.

[Koolblue13]

Well sure, it's better to have a stud than have competition... but if you don't have a stud, the next best thing is an open competition. Of course there's more nuance to that - a mix of vets and youth is a better competition than a bunch of 30-somethings, for example.

Somewhat unfortunately for us, even though we have a nice blend of youth/experience, our "old guy" is the favorite.

Why is that unfortunate?

[skinny21]

Why is that unfortunate?

Just in the sense that it would be nice to get a young guy with a higher ceiling in there. So, it's not a bad thing, per say, but maybe not ideal (hence, "somewhat unfortunate").

With that said, Lichtensteiger played pretty good ball a couple years ago and of course the run game was clicking early last year... so here's hoping for the best.

[Koolblue13]

Just in the sense that it would be nice to get a young guy with a higher ceiling in there. So, it's not a bad thing, per say, but maybe not ideal (hence, "somewhat unfortunate").

With that said, Lichtensteiger played pretty good ball a couple years ago and of course the run game was clicking early last year... so here's hoping for the best.

yeah, the young guys ceiling won't change and if his ground floor can't beat the vet out, good. Let him work harder.

I'm all for the next young stud coming up (tooc), but if he ain't ready, so be it.

Litch ain't bad.

[RedBeast]

Really hope the Kouandjio pick pans out. He's huge. I want him to be the monster that compliments Trent

[bowhunter]

Really hope the Kouandjio pick pans out. He's huge. I want him to be the monster that compliments Trent

You're not alone. Fourth round picks by Scotty McGem should at least be in the conversation.

[RedBeast]

We have a lot of "ifs" that have been discussed ad nauseam, but the WR corps seems to be sick...IF the OL and running game can pull it together? This offense could be developing into something special.

[CTskin]

I'll admit that this is way too early to be overreacting, but even Tandler's starting to talk about how Arie and Rieter aren't being mentioned by the coaches and don't seem to be in any sort of competition for starting jobs. And the idea of Long at C looks like a real longshot, sounds like he's way too green. 

 

It's mildly disappointing, but as long as the starting five produce, I don't care what name's on the back of the jersey.

[skinny21]

I'll admit that this is way too early to be overreacting, but even Tandler's starting to talk about how Arie and Rieter aren't being mentioned by the coaches and don't seem to be in any sort of competition for starting jobs. And the idea of Long at C looks like a real longshot, sounds like he's way too green.

It's mildly disappointing, but as long as the starting five produce, I don't care what name's on the back of the jersey.

I think coaches aren't really interested in Long moving full time to center (this year anyway) because he's competing for the starting LG gig.

As for Reiter/Kouandijo, they have Lichtensteiger/LeRibeus and Long/Lauvao ahead of them. Things could change come training camp, but as of now, in OTAs, I'm betting it's really hard for the former two to overtake the latter.

As I said earlier, it's somewhat unfortunate (the younger guys likely won't push out the vets), but it should probably be expected. I'm just happy we seem to have some decent depth on the line.

[MassSkinsFan]

I'm sticking to my guns - Licht isn't as good an option as (the admittedly flawed) Ribs. I think given time to reflect, review film and consider the impact of yanking Ribs from the starting role in the playoffs we might see a renewed interest in pushing Stabby to produce. Motivating him properly is the key in my opinion. He held his own over the course of last season and I think he can improve on that. Waiting another year for a great center isn't a hardship. We've got this covered for now. :-)

[CommDownMan]

I'll admit that this is way too early to be overreacting, but even Tandler's starting to talk about how Arie and Rieter aren't being mentioned by the coaches and don't seem to be in any sort of competition for starting jobs. And the idea of Long at C looks like a real longshot, sounds like he's way too green. 

 

It's mildly disappointing, but as long as the starting five produce, I don't care what name's on the back of the jersey.

 

When one of the articles on Reiters came out, it mentioned he was bigger and handling the rookies without pads, they mentioned that they'd see how it went when pads went on and real practicing was happening.

 

They still haven't gone full pads, so for now I'd assume there is a wait and see approach with those guys.  

[HanburgerBum]

Who doesn't want Long at C after reading that great excerpt! The power of the press....

 

I thought Long got an early look at C last year.... if he is a natural fit there, why did they instead turn towards Rib? Maybe because Long was a better guard, and basically both were a push at C.  

 

I think all fans can agree that it's nice to finally have a OLC that can graduate draft picks/projects into starters.  My lord were we bad in that dept under previous regimes. 

 

I am still pinching myself that a OLC of Callahan's caliber would decide to work for a Dan Snyder team--the same reaction I had that a GM with Scot McCloughan's resume would come to Washington.  Callahan is the best OLC certainly since Joe Bugel.  But, for whatever reason they are here, I sure am glad they are.  Things are really looking up--finally!

 

The Redskins appear to have the really nice problem of having a lot of quality players vying for spots on the Oline, which was already very good last season and should be even better this season.  Yes, the run-blocking seemed to be sub par, but in today's NFL, it is pass protection that matters the most.

 

It seems to me that between Rib and Long one of them will learn to master the technique of snapping in TC and be able to start at the unsettled Center spot.  Lauvao will regain his starting LG spot if he is healthy.  Otherwise, it would be Long or Kunjo.  Lots of viable options, especially since Callahan prizes versatility among his players.  It is still very early, but this is what I see:

 

Wms, Lauvao, Ribs, Sch, Moses

Nsk, Long, Kunjo, Reiters (and Comp, if the Skins keep 10)

[36HAMMER]

While Leribus has the size he lacks the fire . This has to be his last chance . LICHTY is too small, while he is the best center we have true . But that is also the problem . I see defenses attacking the center of the oline and our inability to move big defensive lines . Maybe a trade i dont know maybe Reiter he is up to 307 . Gues we will see .

[CommDownMan]

I don't know who this is, but I'll take it.

 

Furious Styles ‏@Chris_Worthy_ 2m2 minutes ago

Arie is showing some positive looks at the LG spot. Good to hear

 

[RandyHolt]

I would like to see our OL able to block for a yard in short yardage. 

 

A decade of struggling to do so, makes me think its time to change. We don't need to be hogs. We just need to be able to sneak for a yard.  Diving the FB, one of our best SY plays in recent years, will be a thing of the past with the passing of that position on our roster. 

 

If we are going to roll an OL unable to power block for a yard, McVay must stop trying, and go play action instead. Much like he did in the back half of the season, but sadly, not against GB. DJax failing to score, and then attempting to smash it in and failing, sucked the energy right out of our crowd and team. The game turned on that sequence. 

[RedBeast]

3rd and 3 or less...65% run rate conversion. I'm really happy

[TSO]

For those who were worried Kouandjio wasn't getting a chance at starting LG, from Hap in BRBN:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/06/08/5-observations-from-redskins-otas/

Left guard remains an open competition

Okay, we’ll see how long this lasts once Shawn Lauvao returns during training camp. But Arie Kouandjio, last year’s fourth-round pick and a local product from DeMatha High, earned some reps with the first teamers on Wednesday. That was good to see. Kouandjio appeared in three games last season, but it was mostly a learning year for him. Spencer Long, who took first-team reps during previous open sessions, stayed at backup center behind Kory Lichtensteiger. But Lauvao is the veteran and he was the one on the field the few times the running game was clicking early last season. If he’s healthy it’s still hard to see Long or Kouandjio stealing that spot.

[RandyHolt]

I believe 3rd and 3 has evolved to a passing down....at least more so than ever before. I would like to see us spread it out, and then try and run.  Heck even with 1 yard to go, spread it out like NE does. And Brady sneaks with ease getting 3 or more yards almost every time somehow. We don't even try that simple play, yet NE always seems to have a pathwork OL and has no problem. A key seems to be a quick snap, another thing we don't try. 

 

I am afraid to look at how well we convert running on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1, since Shanny moved in and reinvented the OL effectively killing the SY run game.  

 

I hope getting Kujo in there gives us someone we can at least run a sneak behind. I think this year has got the be the year, with all the changes, and Gruden having power in his playbook when he showed up here. 

[CommDownMan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/06/13/in-year-2-guard-arie-kouandjio-aims-for-breakout-on-and-off-the-field/

[skins island connection]

I believe 3rd and 3 has evolved to a passing down....at least more so than ever before. I would like to see us spread it out, and then try and run.  Heck even with 1 yard to go, spread it out like NE does. And Brady sneaks with ease getting 3 or more yards almost every time somehow. We don't even try that simple play, yet NE always seems to have a pathwork OL and has no problem. A key seems to be a quick snap, another thing we don't try. 

 

 

 In a general way it has, unless a team has a RB who can get the job done.

 The first 2 games of the season we were running great, then the drop-off came, then stagnation for awhile, at least until the Bucs game, then the emergence of Cousins drew the spotlight.

 

 It always frustrates me to see a short yardage situation where the OL and defense are bunched up together like a huge scrum, then expecting the RB to run through it and usually not making it. Spreading the defense out, even if they intend on running will at least give the RB and offense options; if there's a mismatch, the QB can audible and go for it; if not, at least the RB has a better chance.

 

I know I keep going back to the 80's and Gibbs, but back then the o-line was seasoned, and they all worked together like a unit should. Hopefully they can get the right ones in place and avoid the injury bug, but with the weapons we have, Gruden should be able to keep pressure off the line, thus less wear and tear. Being unpredictable has advantages.