Assorted Militia/SovCit news,(formerly Bundy thread)

[twa]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I think his only real option was to play the long game. I mean if govt entities dont even want to get involved in monitoring and going after them , and the damn courts can't even punish them accordingly, what can he do?

 

Just for clarity they are being monitored, infiltrated and are going after them.....and have been.

but like other groups ,some still are problems.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I think so. While you and zoony may have a good point, imo this was a lose lose. 

Black man elected president, decides to crack down on domestic right wing, terror groups,. That, in the middle of a war in Iraq, simply would do nothing but throw gas on the fire, and probably swell their ranks. even more.

You already see what has come of an attempt to push through common sense gun laws, despite crazed lunatics mowing down innocent people time after time.

I think his only real option was to play the long game. I mean if govt entities dont even want to get involved in monitoring and going after them , and the damn courts can't even punish them accordingly, what can he do?

Because he came in on the wave of trying to unite the country, he had to at least try.  It did not work, and by the time he realized there was no point in trying to reason with people who had zero intent on reasoning with him, it was too late, he lost congress.  

History is going to say it played out exactly the way it was supposed to, he had to try at that point in our country's history.  I believe a lot of our federal handling of this segment of our society is following his lead, which I don't believe we can continue anymore.  I really need to see what the GOP is going to try to be following this election, because part of me wants to see them wake up now so we can start having honest discussions again.  

GOP is forcing the Dems into a situation where they need to just get as many seats as possible and just flat out ignore them and the NRA, which is what I wish Obama did when he first got into office. This will be a different conversation by the time states like Texas go purple then blue from the high number of minorities (that's the long game now).

Edited October 28, 2016 by Renegade7

[PCS]

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/baker_city_man_bounced_from_or.html

 

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Baker City man bounced from Oregon standoff jury calls fellow juror's note 'a personal attack

Curt Nickens told fellow jurors Wednesday morning, the fourth day of their deliberations in the Oregon standoff trial, that he felt he had been the target of a "personal attack'' and wasn't comfortable with that.

The day before, Nickens had been summoned to U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown's chambers and asked to sit at a table with a court reporter, a prosecutor and two defense lawyers. He was asked whether anything had changed since he told the court that he didn't feel his prior work for the U.S. Bureau of Land Management would impair his ability to be a fair and impartial juror. Nickens told them no

But as he returned to the jury room, he surmised that Juror 4, who he had been "butting heads'' with during deliberations, had sent some type of note to the court that targeted him, and led to the judge's questioning of him. The day before Nickens had seen Juror 4 tear a piece of paper from his notepad and hand it to the presiding juror.

Nickens didn't share the matter with other jurors until Wednesday morning when debate over the conspiracy charges got heated.

"That's when I told them I received a personal attack, and I wasn't too comfortable with that happening. Apparently nobody else knew about it , and they were surprised,' 'Nickens told The Oregonian/OregonLive. "Juror 4 just admitted to it, and I looked over and said, 'I knew it was you.' '

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[FanboyOf91]

@PCS,

I suspect those terrorism laws get much easier to use when the authorities choose to use the paper bag test.

[PCS]

 

 

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

So much for an impartial jury....SMDH

They broke the law by bringing the guns...that is beyond question an acquital is absurd.

[mikered30]

All defendants found not guilty.  Quite surprising.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/juror_4_prosecutors_in_oregon.html

 

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by mikered30

[BornaSkinsFan83]

6 minutes ago, mikered30 said:

All defendants found not guilty.  Quite surprising.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/juror_4_prosecutors_in_oregon.html

 

 

Thank you for this breaking news

[PCS]

28 minutes ago, mikered30 said:

All defendants found not guilty.  Quite surprising.

 

 

[PCS]

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/malheur-verdict-racial-bias-played-a-role/#.WBPrizkauxw.twitter

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Attorneys Say Racial Bias Played A Role In Malheur Verdict

As soon as the not guilty verdicts for Ammon Bundy and six people who led an armed occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge came down Thursday, questions of racial bias from the jurors and law enforcement began circulating on social media.

And legal experts say implicit bias likely did play a role in the acquittals.

“They went through the system and they were found not guilty. You have to respect that,” said attorney and former South Carolina legislator Bakari Sellers.

“But you also have to understand and question what is the definition of justice in this country?”

Sellers, who also works as a CNN political commentator, said the federal government faltered in the case by not acting aggressively enough toward the all white defendants. 

“I don’t think they would have been treated with such kid gloves, in fact, if they were African-American or Muslim or Native American,” Sellers said. “To be honest with you, they would have all probably been dead.”

Many people on social media noted the disparity in approach the federal government took in responding to the Malheur refuge takeover compared to Native American protesters standing against a controversial oil pipeline in the Dakotas. 

In Malheur, the federal government spent 41 days negotiating for a peaceful surrender from the armed occupiers led by Bundy. In North Dakota on Thursday, the same day the Malheur verdict was delivered, law enforcement arrested more than 100 unarmed protesters using pepper spray, bean bags and military-style vehicles.

 

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[AsburySkinsFan]

On 10/29/2016 at 0:20 AM, PCS said:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/malheur-verdict-racial-bias-played-a-role/#.WBPrizkauxw.twitter

 

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These two have NOTHING to do with each other!

In Oregon the armed "militia" illegally seized Federal land because they are angry that they have to pay pennies on the dollar for grazing fees.

The pipeline criminals are tresspassing on company preoperty and stopping the corporation from making billions and for what? Protecting sacred land, clean water, and stopping more oil spills.

Those ****s on the pipeline get what they deserve! The patriots in Oregon are heroes striking a blow against their oppressors!

Edited October 30, 2016 by AsburySkinsFan

[twa]

1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

 

Those ****s on the pipeline get what they deserve! The patriots in Oregon are heroes striking a blow against their oppressors!

 

Or they are both self indulgent assholes ignoring the greater good.....#AMIRIGHT

 

[PCS]

NYTimes piece where that quote comes from. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/us/oregon-bundy-verdict-wildlife-refuge.html

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/18/us-militia-recruiting-clinton-trump-election-patriot-movement

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Extremist militias recruiting in fear of Clinton winning election, activists say

Extremist surge got national attention during the Oregon militia standoff and has continued to rise with Trump, with his legitimization of white nationalist politics

In the past 12 months, Jessica Campbell has had her car’s fuel line cut and its wheel nuts loosened. Late last year, she had a GPS tracker surreptitiously attached to her vehicle. She is now accustomed to being tailed by unfamiliar vehicles on Interstate 5 near her home in Cottage Grove, just outside Eugene, Oregon. Strangers have regularly come uninvited onto her property; someone even stripped the barbed wire on her fence “just to send a message”. Online, she has repeatedly been threatened with rape and death.

And last week, when she showed up at the Canyon City community hall in Grant County, she told me that someone shot at her and her entourage. They misread their GPS, took a wrong turn and stopped to get their bearings when a crack rang out with what Campbell thought was a .22 bullet whizzing by their vehicle.

Such threats are part of the pushback her work has sparked in rural Oregon.

Campbell co-directs the Rural Organizing Project, a not-for-profit group that sets out to confront the rightwing insurgency that has been bubbling away in parts of rural Oregon and throughout the west. A political organizer since high school, she now coordinates groups attempting to respond to divisive tactics from rightwing activists on immigration, race and public land ownership.

 

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https://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernandez/how-the-leaders-of-an-anti-government-movement-took-on-the-f?utm_term=.qh8B8Yev8#.gq4lvnDQv

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How The Leaders Of An Anti-Government Movement Took On The Feds And Won

“When all you do is shoot fish in a barrel you come to think you’re a great fisherman, and you’re not.”

Attorney Matthew Schindler has handled more than 200 cases in federal court, squaring against federal prosecutors and arguing his case to judges and juries.

Never had any of his clients been indicted and stood trial within a year — the wheels of justice just don’t turn that quickly. Yet there stood Schindler in a Portland courtroom Thursday, waiting for a jury to render a verdict just 10 months after his client had been arrested.

His client, Kenneth Medenbach, was one of seven occupiers charged with a takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge, a tense standoff that caught national attention and drew a spotlight to a growing anti-government movement and the dispute over Western lands and ranchers’ claims to it.

Ammon and Ryan Bundy, the leaders of the armed occupation, were also waiting to hear their fate. Most observers, including Schindler, expected a conviction.

Then, in an astonishing decision, a jury found all seven not guilty.

“This is the biggest defeat of this US Attorney’s office that I’m aware of,” Schindler told BuzzFeed News. “These are just not the kinds of cases that you win.”

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[Mr. Sinister]

Just makes me so angry. All of it. The stress of the election cycle coupled with this is just too much, so I basically haven't watched or listened the last several days.

I've had enough

[PCS]

 

[PCS]

 

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/bundy_like_trump_further_split.html

 

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Bundy, like Trump, further splits a divided society

Portland criminal defense lawyers are a close-knit bunch, mutually supportive almost as a rule in a legal practice given to many more defeats than victories.

But attorneys were not so collegial in the hours after the stunning not-guilty verdicts in the case of Ammon Bundy and six other defendants.

In a group email circulated early Friday among multiple offices, attorney Bob Reid congratulated the lawyers who won acquittals for the seven occupiers. But he also advised them to think twice about what they'd done.

"These defendants are not 'good guys' for taking over public lands..." Reid wrote. "They're not patriots... and they're not an oppressed class."

The normally soft-spoken Per Olson, who represented defendant David Fry and had just pulled off one of the biggest upsets of his career, was in no mood.

"I don't need your moralizing," he snapped back. "I ain't shedding any tears over this one, so stick it up your arse."

The exchange reflects the controversial and divisive nature of the Bundy case acquittals. Outraged liberals sounded like law-and-order conservatives castigating federal prosecutors for bungling the case.

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[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

15 hours ago, PCS said:

 

 

A trial lawyer should only object when you have to, otherwise it looks like you are trying to either hide things from the jury or dont think the jury is smart enough to decide what is important and what is not important .. if a reading of the Constitution, while technically a valid objection, is harmless, you dont object. 

Particularly with a rural jury and the US Constitution. 

On the flip side, as the prosecutor, I imagine you want to keep this as a tunnel vision case against the particular defendants and their particular acts and not allow the defendants to make this case appear like a case against the US Constitution or a rural work-the-land limited-govt mentality. And having the defendant read parts of the Constitution as his defense would not be helpful in that regard.   

Always seems odd to me that lawyers on both sides can spend 100 of hours and tons of money preparing a case for trial ... only to have it decided by 6 or 12 random people who could care less about what your brilliant educated expert says. Go to any McDonalds or Walmart and pull 6 or 12 random people from the line and those are your jurors. That is who is going to decide your case that you spent 2 years and countless hours preparing for. In Maryland, we have very sophisticated jurors and I think these guys would be found guilty 100 out of 100 times ... but up in rural Oregon the prosecutors are 0 for 1. 

 

[PCS]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2016/11/01/c45bdf4e-a04c-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html

 

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In the Nevada desert, Bundy family warns of another standoff

 

BUNKERVILLE, Nev. — Less than a week after being acquitted at a trial over last winter’s armed occupation of an Oregon federal wildlife refuge, Nevada rancher Ryan Bundy said another protest action will be justified if President Obama goes ahead with plans to create a huge national monument abutting the Bundy family’s ranch here.

“Absolutely! That’s the best thing in the world for [people] to do,” Bundy said Monday in a telephone interview from an Oregon jail, where he is being held pending a February trial related to a separate armed standoff in 2014 with federal agents at his family’s ranch.

“Read the Declaration of Independence,” he said. “It says right there that if the government becomes abusive, it’s our right and our duty to abolish that government. If the government won’t restrain itself, whatever happens is their own fault.”

The suggestion of a potential uprising underscores the extent to which two competing political movements — defiance of federal authority, and Obama’s determination to permanently protect vast federal lands — could collide next in this arid patch of land 110 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

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[Mr. Sinister]

Even as white militiamen (who seem to have a completely different set of rules and responses for their brand of bs), you can only taunt Uncle Sam but so many times.

One can only hope...

[PCS]

http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/11/02/the-bundy-acquittal-isnt-just-shocking-its-part-of-a-pattern-of-arrogant-bungling-by-the-u-s-attorney-for-oregon/

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The Bundy Acquittal Isn’t Just Shocking—It’s Part of a Pattern of Arrogant Bungling by the U.S. Attorney for Oregon

Here’s where prosecutors got lost—and Billy Williams probably lost any hope of keeping his job.

BY KARINA BROWN AND NIGEL JAQUISS

U.S. Attorney for Oregon Billy Williams arrived on the ninth floor of the Mark O. Hatfield United States Courthouse on Oct. 27 with a smile on his face.

A jury had taken just six hours to reach a verdict in the biggest case of Williams' career. It was the decisive moment in a 10-month saga that caused $6 million in damage to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and left one man dead.

Trial observers thought a guilty verdict was a foregone conclusion. The only question: Would all seven defendants be found guilty of conspiracy, or just Ammon Bundy, the ringleader of the 41-day refuge takeover?

Williams chatted with Greg Bretzing, FBI special agent in charge of Oregon, and the press like he was at a ****tail party. He invited a half-dozen reporters to a 9 am press conference the next morning at his office.

Williams never showed up for that press conference.

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Verdict on Malheur Wildlife Refuge no win for rural malcontents

Astounding to many, a jury in Portland, Ore., on Thursday found the gun-toting occupiers of public facilities at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge not guilty as charged.

And with a commentary that I find every bit as astonishing, newscasts ranging from blogs to NPR report that the jury’s outcome signals a triumph for right-wing rural malcontents to wrest public land from government agencies now charged with administering it across the West.

Nonsense.

While the illegal occupation has raised concerns for the security of other federal land, employees and visitors throughout the Western states, the jury’s decision recognized only that the federal prosecutor’s narrow case — the wildlife refuge’s invaders had deliberately prevented federal employees from doing their jobs — was not convincing to that particular jury. It had nothing to do with the legitimacy of armed men to illegally occupy government facilities. Further, it had nothing to do with claims that the federal government should not own and take care of wildlife refuges, national forests, national parks or Bureau of Land Management acreage.

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[PCS]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/11/transcript_of_juror_4s_emails.html

 

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Transcript of Juror 4's emails: His explanation for Ammon Bundy verdict

 

Juror 4 has so far provided the only public explanation of the behind-the-scenes discussions that led to the acquittal of Ammon Bundy, his brother and five others on federal conspiracy charges stemming from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

Readers have asked to hear more from him about the jury's reasoning in reaching the surprising decision.

Juror 4 – a 44-year-old business administration student at Marylhurst University who served in the Navy during the Iraq War – went into detail in a series of email exchanges with The Oregonian/OregonLive that were used in news stories.

Here's a transcript of the emails, with some minor editing for brevity or clarity. He's asked not to be identified for fear of retribution. The judge sealed the names of all nine women and three men on the jury, citing public safety.

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[zoony]

I have to admit I feel better about our judicial system having read that email transcript, but much worse about federal attorneys and federal laws

[PCS]

Yeah. Both need some work I think to help get these fruit loops under control. 

 

Meanwhile,everyone's favorite former lawyer turned "Constitutional Educator."  Sov/Cits and militia,(I believe Feds don't differentiate too much between the two),Kris Anne Hall revving up the "people". Before mentioned fruit loops love her. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/11/06/meet-the-woman-who-spends-260-days-a-year-preaching-the-constitution/?tid=sm_tw

 

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Founding Fervor

KrisAnne Hall barnstorms an angry nation, blasting federal overreach of the Constitution

“Please welcome our favorite warrior: KrisAnne Hall!”

More than 250 people, mostly conservative Christians, clap and whoop as Hall takes the stage in the ballroom of a suburban Minnesota hotel with a 32-lane bowling alley and a huge mermaid statue on the roof.

Hall, a radio host, former Florida prosecutor and Army veteran, tells the crowd that the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group that tracks extremism, has included her on its list of 998 anti-government groups in the United States.

She just loves that.

“Did everybody know I’m on that list?” she says, to loud applause and laughter.

“How amazing is that? I teach the Constitution of the United States, the document that created government. How could I be anti-government? See, the problem is, I am not anti-government. I am anti-lawless government.”

*Click Link For More* 

[PCS]

One of Ms. Hall's responses to said post article. 

 

 

[PCS]