The Gun Control Debate Thread

[tshile]

31 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

I wish we could get something like that nationwide.  I'd have no problem with training and testing being required. 

I had always thought and argued the dems should build a national permit system and use it as leverage to get training requirements and movement on other things. Hell id give up some ground for a national permit. 
 

but it seems the republicans have decided getting rid of permits all together is more interesting to them 🤷‍♂️ 

[China]

Texas Mass Shootings Up 62.5 Percent Since Permitless Carry Bill

 

Just over a year ago, Governor Greg Abbott signed a law making it legal for anyone in Texas over the age of 21 to openly carry a gun in public without a permit or license. Since then, the number of mass shootings has risen 62.5 percent.

 

From June 13, 2020, to June 13, 2021, when Abbott signed the permitless carry law, Texas had 40 mass shootings. In that same time period from 2021 to 2022, the number of mass shootings rose to 65. The numbers were compiled using the databases from the Stanford University MSA Data Project, the Mass Shooting Tracker, Vox’s Gun Violence Archives, Mother Jones, The Washington Post, the FBI, and the Congressional Research Service. All incidences met at least two definitions of a mass shooting. 

 

The math is even more damning when taking the number of victims into account. In the one-year period before the bill was signed, 187 people were killed or injured in mass shootings in Texas. In the one-year-after period, it was 375 people killed or injured, a 100 percent increase. Even if the 40 people killed or injured in the Robb Elementary School Massacre are excluded, the increase is 79 percent, an enormous jump in bloodshed. 

 

When the bill was signed, Texas Democrats predicted that the law would likely increase gun violence. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Grand jury indicts Navy petty officer on three new felony counts alleging unregistered silencers

 

A U.S. Naval Reserves petty officer charged with entering the U.S. Capitol Building on Jan. 6 was indicted this week on three new felony charges alleging he possessed unregistered silencers.

 

The indictment, unsealed Wednesday in the Eastern District of Virginia, alleges Hatchet Speed, of McLean, possessed three unregistered firearm suppressors, also known as silencers. Speed was scheduled to make his initial appearance in that case before a magistrate judge Wednesday afternoon.

 

Although silencers are legal to own in more than 40 states, including Virginia, they are subject to the same federal regulations as short-barreled rifles and machine guns under the National Firearms Act. Purchasing a silencer requires a $200 ATF tax stamp and filling out a registration form that includes information about the person transferring the silencer – including their Federal Firearms License number, if applicable – the person receiving it, the model and serial number of the silencer, and a series of questions about the receiver or purchaser’s background.

 

Under federal law, failing to properly register a silencer is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

 

In an affidavit filed with the court, an FBI special agent said financial records showed Speed had purchased at least a dozen firearms in the five months after Jan. 6 – which an undercover FBI employee described as “panic buying.” In total, Speed allegedly purchased more than $50,000 worth of firearms and equipment at firearms stores in multiple states, including Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Missouri, Minnesota, Georgia, Idaho and Utah. During a search of his home in Virginia in June, FBI agents reported seizing eight firearms and seven suppressors.

 

The DOJ wants Hatchet Speed placed on home detention w/ location monitoring and ordered not to possess any firearms. That's because, they say, he panic bought $50,000-worth of guns after Jan. 6. They seized 8 guns and 7 suppressors from his home and found dozens more.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Visa joins Mastercard, AmEx in specifically labeling gun store sales

 

Payment processor Visa announced Saturday its plans to separately categorize gun shop sales, joining Mastercard and American Express, which have already said they would categorize purchases at firearm stores.

 

Visa said it would apply the International Organization for Standardization’s new merchant code to gun shop sales. The new IOS code was announced on Friday. Previously, gun store sales were labeled as “general merchandise.”

 

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” Visa said in a statement.

 

The move by Visa signals a major victory for gun control advocates who argue that a separate category for gun store sales will help track suspicious quantities of firearm sales that could potentially lead to a mass shooting.

 

But gun rights advocates and gun lobbyists have said categorizing gun shop sales would be unfair to the industry given that most firearm sales do not result in mass shootings.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

I'm failing to see the "gun advocates" position of how it harms them?  It doesn't prevent them in any way from buying the guns.

[tshile]

They’re just inherently against anything that appears to be tracking. 
 

The specifics don’t usually matter. 
 

Even the most sane ones cringe at least a bit. It’s just fundamental to their mindset. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, China said:

I'm failing to see the "gun advocates" position of how it harms them?  It doesn't prevent them in any way from buying the guns.

 

The resident gun nut supports this change.

[China]

I thought we had enough guns in this country that everybody could have more than one.  No need to share.

 

2 men shot each other with same gun during argument in west Birmingham, police say

 

An investigation is underway after a Thursday-night double shooting on Birmingham’s west side.

 

Birmingham police responded just before 10:30 p.m. to the 900 block of Susan Lane in the city’s Green Acres community. They arrived to find two men – both in their mid-40s – wounded in the yard of a residence.

 

Officer Truman Fitzgerald said the preliminary investigation indicates one of the men may have shot the other and a physical altercation then ensued.

 

The wounded man then gained control of the suspect’s gun and shot him.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

Getting your gun taken away from you, by the guy you shot?  
 

Who was the other guy?  Chuck Norris?  

[China]

Report of shots fired at Josey Highschool Homecoming

 

“As official T.W. Josey Homecoming post game tailgate activities were coming to an end, a shooting with injuries occurred.  Richmond County School System Safety and Security and Richmond County Sheriff’s Office are on the scene. Two people have been transported for medical treatment.  Our thoughts are with those affected by the incident. The Richmond County Sheriff’s Office is handling the investigation.”

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[China]

On 9/12/2022 at 2:47 PM, China said:

Visa joins Mastercard, AmEx in specifically labeling gun store sales

 

Payment processor Visa announced Saturday its plans to separately categorize gun shop sales, joining Mastercard and American Express, which have already said they would categorize purchases at firearm stores.

 

Visa said it would apply the International Organization for Standardization’s new merchant code to gun shop sales. The new IOS code was announced on Friday. Previously, gun store sales were labeled as “general merchandise.”

 

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” Visa said in a statement.

 

The move by Visa signals a major victory for gun control advocates who argue that a separate category for gun store sales will help track suspicious quantities of firearm sales that could potentially lead to a mass shooting.

 

But gun rights advocates and gun lobbyists have said categorizing gun shop sales would be unfair to the industry given that most firearm sales do not result in mass shootings.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

I'm failing to see the "gun advocates" position of how it harms them?  It doesn't prevent them in any way from buying the guns.

 

GOP attorneys general threaten Visa, American Express and MasterCard over gun-store code

 

Two dozen Republican attorneys general warned Visa, American Express and MasterCard on Tuesday not to go ahead with their plans to add a new merchant category code for gun retailers.

 

In a letter to the CEOs of the card giants, the officials expressed serious concern that adopting a new sales code for gun stores would harm the constitutional rights of gunowners and potentially violate consumer protection and antitrust laws.

The Republican attorneys general are threatening to take legal action against the card companies if they follow through on their recently-announced plans to adopt the new code, which was approved by an international group that sets payments standards.

 

"Be advised that we will marshal the full scope of our lawful authority to protect our citizens and consumers from unlawful attempts to undermine their constitutional rights," the letter reads. "Please keep that in mind as you consider whether to proceed with adopting and implementing this Merchant Category Code."

Advocates for the new code argue it could potentially flag mass shooters and gun traffickers.

Previously, gun store sales were classified under a general merchandise or sporting goods category. These codes show where people make purchases but don't detail what they specifically bought.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

 

[China]

Toddler fatally shoots South Carolina mom with 'unsecured firearm,' sheriff says

 

A South Carolina mother died on Wednesday after she was shot by her 3-year-old child, after the toddler got a hold of an "unsecured firearm" in their home, authorities said.

 

Spartanburg County Sheriff's deputies were called to 4750 S. Pine St. at about 7:45 a.m. and found wounded mom Cora Lyn Bush, 33, her child and the victim's mother, officials said.

 

"Although our investigation remains active, all indications are this incident was a result of the young child gaining access to an unsecured firearm, which resulted in the mother being accidentally shot and later passing away at the hospital," a sheriff's statement said.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

McKeesport man charged after his 5-year-old daughter is seen on video chasing children with a gun

 

A McKeesport man was arraigned early Friday morning after being charged with endangering the welfare of children following an incident in which police say his 5-year-old daughter chased other children with a gun.

 

Police said they were first notified about the incident on Sept. 18, after getting a report of a young girl chasing other children with the gun in the parking lot of a building at Crawford Village.

 

The incident was caught on video.

 

According to a criminal complaint, police interviewed Charles Counts, 77, on Thursday, with Counts revealing the girl in the video is his daughter.

 

According to police, Counts said the gun was in his drawer and not loaded and he also told officers he did not know his daughter took the gun or he would have stopped her.

 

Police said when they asked Counts who owns the gun, he said he entertains a lot of people in his apartment and someone must have left it behind.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Ted Cruz was booed by a Texas audience when he said his plan to end school shootings is putting more police officers in schools

 

Sen. Ted Cruz was met with boos from a Texas audience when he said that his plan to combat school shootings is placing more police officers in schools. 

 

Cruz spoke about guns and other contentious topics at the Texas Tribune Festival in Austin on Saturday, where he was met with a responsive audience. 

 

"Whenever you have a mass murder ... you have Democrats in Washington, the step they immediately go to is we need to take away firearms from law-abiding citizens," Cruz said, prompting sparse applause. "OK, you can clap for that except for the minor problem that it doesn't work. If the objective is to stop these crimes, gun control is singularly ineffective."

 

Cruz argued that gun control measures punish "law-abiding citizens" instead of criminals, though the audience seemed to disagree with him at some points.

 

"If you want to stop crime," Cruz said, "you target the bad guys. You target the criminals, the felons, the fugitives. You prosecute them, you put them in jail, you get them off the streets, and you also enhance security at vulnerable targets." 

 

Cruz has made similar comments before in defense of the National Rifle Association, which he said "stands up for the rights of every American," Business Insider previously reported. Cruz has received the most donations from gun rights groups among other Texas lawmakers, according to Axios. 

 

"Two weeks ago, I stood on the Senate floor and tried to pass legislation I've introduced that would double the number of police officers in school," Cruz said to a crowd of boos. "If we want to keep our kids safe, and I desperately want to keep our kids safe, the most effective step we can do is to have police officers there to protect them who can intercept a mass murderer before he gets into the school and stop them."

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Houston announces change to controversial gun buyback program

 

Houston officials plan to announce the city's second annual gun buyback event on Monday afternoon, ABC 13 reported. 

 

The city has new rules in place for the next buyback event after a man sold dozens of 3D-printed guns back to the city during its inaugural buyback on Jul. 31. After the first buyback, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner said the man selling the 3D-printed guns seemed to be trying to exploit the program to line his pockets. 

 

"We did get some ghost guns where people may have 3D-printed or made these guns specifically for the gun buyback program," Turner said to ABC 13. Turner told ABC 13 that officials will not accept 3D-printed "ghost guns" at the next buyback to avoid shelling out payments to alleged scammers of the program in the future. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[skinny21]

22 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

Cool.  Do courtrooms and GOP conventions/rallies next…

 

 

Also, for some reason my mind went to the movies and those towns in the Wild West where people coming into town had check their guns. Imagine arguing gun laws were too strict back then…

Edited October 6, 2022 by skinny21

[tshile]

I wonder how guns being prohibited at a location, based on what type of location it is, compares to owners of said location prohibits guns. 
 

for example, in Virginia if you put the sign on the door then it is illegal to carry there. And that’s in additional to certain types of locations where possession is prohibited by the type of location 

 

specific example:

ok, guns are no longer prohibited inside of stadiums by virtue of a stadium being a location where the law prohibits it. 
 

but if the owner of the stadium puts up signs prohibiting it - then it’s still prohibited, correct?

 

 

[China]

West Virginia fed judge: Law against possession of guns with obliterated serial number unconstitutional

 

A West Virginia federal judge has ruled unconstitutional the government law against possession of firearms with obliterated, altered, obscured or removed serial numbers.

 

U.S. District Judge Joseph R. Goodwin’s ruling, if it isn’t overturned upon appeal, would strip away an important tool for law enforcement in investigating gun crimes.

 

Goodwin ruled this week in a two-count gun indictment. Goodwin found the federal government’s law preventing felons from possessing firearms is constitutional, and even included that in his logic for striking down the statute on obliterating serial numbers. Goodwin’s ruling used as a hinge point a U.S. Supreme Court ruling earlier this year in a New York gun case, N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 142 S. Ct. 2111.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

 

[China]

Man accused of making ghost guns in Kalamazoo County sentenced to prison

 

A Kalamazoo County man was sentenced to prison for creating ghost guns in a subterranean workshop.

 

Zachary Grosser, 29, was sentenced Oct. 14 to a total of 12 years in prison, according to court records in the U.S. District Court, Western District of Michigan.

 

He pleaded guilty June 15, to one felony count of engaging in the business of manufacturing and dealing firearms without a license.

 

U.S. District Judge Jane Beckering sentenced Grosser to five years on prison for the charge. He was sentenced to 7 years in prison for possession of a firearm not registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer record.

 

As part of his guilty plea, two felony counts were dismissed, according to court records. Those counts were possession of a firearm under the National Firearms Act not identified by a serial number, and possession of a firearm with a removed, obliterated or altered serial number.

 

Between summer 2018 and Aug. 18, 2021, Grosser made and distributed guns in a subterranean workshop, according to court records. He lived in Kalamazoo County’s Cooper Township.

 

Grosser would sell the guns to people in West Michigan, “including to people he believed were forbidden by law to possess them,” according to court records.

 

Ghost gun refers to a gun with no serial number that cannot be easily traced.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Die Hard]

6 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

The problem here isn’t guns.

 

It’s that cars are not bullet proof!!!

[Cooked Crack]

9 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

The problem here isn’t guns.

 

It’s that cars are not bullet proof!!!

Just like schools we need to fortify our cars.