pointyfootball Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Given that Buddy Ryan has not been included in this discussion shows me you all have no clue what you are talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Given that Buddy Ryan has not been included in this discussion shows me you all have no clue what you are talking about! Buddy who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Buddy who? Sounds like a dude that sells fancy riding lawnmowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike42 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Gibbs is not only the greatest coach in the nfc east, but one of the greatest of all time (Top 5). Not because I'm a redskin fan. Most great coaches had better players where Gibbs didn't. Most teams that win 3 super bowls always have a franchise QB during that time frame. Gibbs didn't and changed QBs and still won. Make no mistake about it, Laundry is up there as one of the greats. But Gibbs had less to work with and made more of a impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Spurrier I love Spurrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Landry had a longer career. I'd loved to have seen what Joe G would have done with the same amount of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It actually would've been interesting to see what Jimmy Johnson would've done in Dallas if not for the ego battle with Jerruh. His NFC East tenure of only five years sort of disqualifies him from being considered a divisional great (and his four years with Miami weren't great), but if you gave him Switzer's ring (which many folks attribute to Jimmy anyway), and you'd probably have to put him up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Luckily for us we have a horse in the race up for genuine discussion. It really does come down to Landry and Gibbs in about as close of a head to head as you can possibly have. But - I think Landry wins this in about as close of a tie you can have. Like, 1AAA to 1AA. 1 and 1A is too far of a difference. 29 years and 5 SB appearances with 2 wins probably beats 16 years 4 SB appearances and 3 wins. He essentially had double the length of the career Gibbs did, which, when you take into account it was mostly successful years, probably makes up for the 1 less SB victory since he had 1 additional appearance total and 13 extra years. The longevity is absurd, and sort of more unique and eyepopping than anything on Gibbs resume. If I had 1 game that I needed a coach for, I take Gibbs between the two, but if you are looking at resumes, which is how I feel like "greatest" is asking for predominantly, Landry has a crazy resume. It's that close. I really can see Gibbs over Landry too, but 29 years just jumps off the page. Chuck Noll had 23 years with the steelers and Don Shula had 26 years with the dolphins. The main cases I have for Gibbs over Landry is that Gibbs is actually more integral to the skins than Landry is to the Cowboys, Gibbs almost IS the redskins. And then just quality over quantity while still over a long period of time himself based on "normal" coaching standards, 16 years is very long too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's Gibbs. Three Super Bowl wins with three different QBs. No one else has done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 One of the things I think you have to consider in the discussion is that Landry built the Cowboys from scratch. Cowboys were an expansion team. The rules of building a team when he came to Dallas were not nearly as forgiving as they are today. I think you have to take that into consideration. Another Coach that deserves to be in this discussion is Steve Owen of the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's Gibbs. Three Super Bowl wins with three different QBs. No one else has done that. Yep. Even though I am a Redskin fan and may come off as biased I'd say Gibbs is at the top. Three Super Bowl victories with three different QBs and three different RBs. That is a feat no other HC in the NFC EAST, heck, in NFL history can match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Chip Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 29 years and 5 SB appearances with 2 wins probably beats 16 years 4 SB appearances and 3 wins. Does not compute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Gibbs accomplished more with less. The King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Does not compute. I mean, clearly the debate is close. But, based on your standards then Don Shula is worse (fine), and bill walsh is worse (this is where this debate gets funky). Chuck Noll is better, but Bill walsh is worse? Based on your computations. I'm trying to reverse engineer your computations. It's either SB victories only, or SB w/l ratio. I don't think SB victories or density of SB victories within a full career is the only basis of an NFL head coach. It's indeed the primary basis, but it's not the only. Clearly, it's being taken into account, but landry had a full extra coaching career in terms of longevity. I mean yea, if you are basing it off that only then sure. But, giving a reason might provide more insight than it just "not computing." Here is how I see it - the difference between Landry and Gibbs is this - Landry is 1 more SB appearance and 13 quality coaching years vs. 1 more SB victory. So, pretty much andy reid's Eagles career traded for 1 SB victory. That's fine - but the 13 years Gibbs isn't coaching gets held against him in the same way it's added to Landry. Gibbs gave us Norv, Schottenheimer, and Spurrier years while Landry is still coaching the team years 17-29. Look - I am agreeing 1 SB has a ton of weight, that's why 13 years and 1 additional appearance essentially makes it a tie to me. "greatest in NFCeast" is also different than "best" coach too. If I am talking "best" coaches in the NFCeast, Jimmy Johnson is easily higher than Tom Landry based on his ridiculous credentials in a short period of time and would be the foe against Joe Gibbs. "Greatest" adds longevity and tenure to things. Edit - meant to add that Jimmy Johnson replaces Landry as the Cowboys top choice, not that Jimmy Johnson automatically would be ahead of Parcells either as option #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Long Post I wasn't trying to be snarky. I just disagree with your assessment. Longevity doesn't necessarily make someone the greatest of all-time. There is nothing wrong with coaching 29 years, making 5 Super Bowls and winning 2 of them. But when you compare it to 16 years of coaching, 4 Super Bowl appearances, and 3 wins? Give me more Super Bowl appearances and more championships in 13 less years every single time. We're talking about the best of the best here, so nobody is slighting anybody. Gibbs produced better results in a much shorter time frame than Mr. Landry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Best coach vs. Greatest coach to me are different questions and I think that's the crux of your difference. All you have to do is google difference between best to greatest to see that there is a tangible distinction that may exist for people, and I happen to be one of those that are using them consciously differently. If the thread title was "best" instead of "greatest" I would have answered Gibbs over Jimmy over Bill in a pseudo landslide. Greatest implies to me, resume, punching in the clock, commitment etc. So longevity actually becomes a large factor. The fact that much of Bill's legacy lies outside of the NFC east makes him disappear from the discussion for me. But best? I mean, it's simple math that agrees, as well as I, that Gibbs had a better resume if you are going on a per year average, and obviously he has another SB. But, on a per year basis Jimmy Johnson would make Gibbs look pedestrian if you take it to the full on opposite end of the spectrum. And I agree, I am putting in my own arbitrary balance of longevity vs. SBs just as you are, or anyone is. That's why this question is even up for debate. Like, it's not much different than if someone said Barry Sanders was the "best" RB ever but Walter Payton was the "greatest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I know you are talking about the greatest of all time. No need to get into the semantics of best vs greatest. If you want to talk about the "best" coach, then you are talking about teachers and X's and O's (IMO). Like I said, we disagree and that's totally cool. I think Jimmy Johnson's sample size is too small and I think Landry's extra 13 years on Gibbs mean nothing. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I know you are talking about the greatest of all time. No need to get into the semantics of best vs greatest. If you want to talk about the "best" coach, then you are talking about teachers and X's and O's (IMO). Like I said, we disagree and that's totally cool. I think Jimmy Johnson's sample size is too small and I think Landry's extra 13 years on Gibbs mean nothing. Just my opinion. I'm getting into semantics because you disagreed with me by saying "does not compute" so did not give me a lot to work with so I figured you wanted me to explain my position your sig also says "forum smartass"... I'll remember that for next time lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 For a number of reasons, including my personal bias, I'd have to put Joe Gibbs at the top of the list. His 2nd half adjustments, his ability to work with less than stellar personnel, his record and the (seemingly) universal, glowing praise for him as a coach and a man from his players speaks for itself. But, as others have mentioned, let's not forget Tom Landry and Bill Parcells. Landry may very well be the best of the bunch (as much as it pains me to say that) because while he was surrounded by great talent for much of his time in Dallas, he started with nothing. When the NFL gave Dallas an expansion franchise, Landry was picked to be its coach. He started from the ground floor - going winless in 1960 - and created one of the most consistently successful franchises in league history. Parcells, too, was given a "fixer-upper" when he took over a pitiful New York Giants team in the early 1980s and built them into one of the most feared teams of the 1980s. If the NFC wasn't so stacked with talent, he could have easily won another Super Bowl or two during the decade. I'd also give an "honorable mention" to Ray Flaherty, coach during the Redskins first era of glory during the depression and war years. -He had a higher winning percentage than Joe Gibbs -He led the team to its first NFL East championship and winning season (the team only won 2 games the previous season) -He led the team to three other NFL Championship Games, two of which he won -He was responsible for bringing some of the greatest Redskins players of all time to the team, including Sammy Baugh and Andy Farkas (who are in the Hall of Fame) Were it not for him going to serve overseas during World War II (and, apparently, his ability to do something few people could - stand up to George Preston Marshall), he probably would have continued coaching deeper into the 1940s, saving the Redskins at least a few years of embarrassing coaching hires and personnel choices (sound familiar)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You guys are showing absolutely no respect for Terry Robiskie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 You guys are showing absolutely no respect for Terry Robiskie. Those first two games (at Dallas and at Pittsburgh) after he replaced Norv might be the most depressing back-to-back games of the Snyder era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 edit: my mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Rich Kotite is underrated. I loved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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