Voice_of_Reason Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Anywho...as has been said a million times already, that's a no-call every day of the week & 15 times on Sunday. You can guess which game gets the call. I'm so confused. What's a no-call every day of the week? I was talking specifically about the Tuck Rule call against the Raiders. Nothing to do with the SB. And I was comparing the Tuck Rule call to the "fumble" that Robert had in the corner of the end zone. In one of my previous posts, what I said is that it looks like they got the call right by the letter of the rule, but the rule stinks. And they didn't get it right by the intent of the rule. Which is the same as the call for the tuck rule. That REALLY looked like a fumble by Brady. But it was overturned because of the tuck rule. But where's the consistency in the gme in question? The late hits, the blatantly obvious facemask, the holding or....the all but exact opposite ruling on pretty much the same rule in the book on the OBJ catch? Which game are you talking about? The 'Skins vs. Giants game? I'm still confused. Nowhere in any post have I ever said that the officiating in that game was either good, fair, or unbiased. I posted earlier that they missed the face mask, and that was about the most blatent missed penalty you can have. The officiating was horrific. BUT in the instance of the fumble/TD, I think based on the letter of the rule, they actually got that one right. Go figure. No matter though...i can see your hatred blinds you (edit: not you particularly...but others you have effectively defended with this post...i generally take no umbrage with your posts). You can't even bother to admit how horrid the OL played, or how atrocious the play calling was on both sides of the ball. All you have troubled to do for the 7 pages i just glanced through, is rail on Robert. You & 6 others...nothing but vitriol. Huh? What? Excuse me? I think you've got the wrong guy. 1. I don't hate Griffin at all. Never posted that. 2. I've been pretty adamant that I would like to see him return next year because he's by far the most physically gifted QB we have on the roster, and might have had on the roster since Sammy Baugh. 3. On the Fumble/TD, while I said I think they got the call right by the letter of the law, I also said it was a hell of an effort, and kid should get credited for trying to make a play. He got a little unlucky, which happens. Shrug. I can live with that effort, and eventually the luck turns around. 4. I've been called a Griffin defender (using more colorful language). I was ok with his benching after the Tampa game just because he couldn't seem to do the most basic things correctly. He played much better yesterday. Not stellar, but at the very least above average, and MAYBE you could argue "Good." Especially because... 5. The OL play, especially after Trent got hurt (which is before he actually went out) was horrific. Add the TEs and RBs to the protection issues, and the whole pass-pro was ridiculously bad. 6. I was pointing out "time to first pressure" earlier in the thread. We're talking 2.3, 1.7, 2.6 seconds. That's awful. You can't be accused of holding onto the ball too long, if you've got a guy in your lap at 2.3 seconds. No worries though...just curious...do you lot actually have any evaluations you care to provide on anyone else on the team WITHOUT making reference to "he who shall not be named" in a backhanded or remotely (as in: from a distance) denigrating sort of way. That, i may actually pay attention to, going forward. Again, I think you've got the wrong guy, and certainly the wrong post. Which actually had nothing to do with Griffin, it was a conversation about a rule and a call that took place 13 years ago. And FWIW, I only use "He who shall not be named from the draft which shall not be mentioned" for Malcomb Kelly and the 2008 draft. & btw...before it gets stated...again...it's not that you are critiquing your girlfriend's lifestyle choices...it's that we've been at this bar for 6 hours & you can't suffer to keep her name out your goddamn mouth. I have no idea what this is all about. Given that I personally didn't criticize Griffin during the game, almost really at all, maybe a post here or there, but nothing serious. I was more critical of the defense, penalties, protection and game planning than anything else. In fact, somewhere in the middle of the 3rd quarter, I had a post that this was about the perfect outcome for me: Griffin was playing ok to well and the team was competitive. If they won, well, I like wins regardless of draft position. If they lost, well, that's better for draft position. So I said it was a can't lose scenario for me. So, help me out. What exactly in any post I've made brought on this tirade, which, while a pretty good rant, seems like it was completely mis-aimed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins0721 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The defense can move the ball forward after recovering a fumble - it's the offense that can't advance a fumble forward. Oh, that's right. So the fumbled ball would be an NYG recovery. Still, it seems weird this is a rule associated with a fumble. If you regain possession, you regain possession hitting the ground shouldn't come into play. Plus, the crossing of the goal line effectively ends the play (well, it does in all other situations I can think of). I guess it was called correctly. It's still a stupid rule. Actually, it's a needless rule that should be stricken from the books because the ground can't cause a fumble. Unless you fumble it before, regain possession & then fumble it when you hit the ground even after crossing the goal line in full possession of the ball. Just thought of something - what if a defender ripped it from his arms AFTER he crossed the goal line & before he hit the ground? Fumble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoah Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The reality is that he never regained possession. The more fans and players complain about this, the more irrational they appear. Exactly. And it was considered a fumble, which means the offense can't advance the ball forward. I hated the call, but it was the right one. It's more proof that we are a cursed team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 People have been defended the lack of discipline by saying they were undisciplined last year, but even if you isolate the discipline factor to on the field last week they had already surpassed the total number of penalties for the entire 2013. There are two sides to this. One is the undisciplined and poor play, but associated with it is a whole bunch of bull. I'd say 50% of our penalties shouldn't have been called yesteday. Like the PI on Breeland. The double unsportsmanlike penalty on one player... really? Without a blow thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Regardless if it was the correct call or not, that is a terrible rule and like others have mentioned many times this would never be called in almost any other game. Why did the refs not review Beckham's first TD when he was clearly losing control as he landed out of bounds? Because Mara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM626 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Yes, If it is legally recovered. But it wasn't. I watched the play again and Griffin recovers the ball as he crosses the plane and then drags both his feet on the ground inbounds, so my call would be TD right there, a legal recovery, both feet are on the ground with possession of the ball in the endzone, I think it's a dumb rule he should then also complete the catch as if he's a wide receiver as he falls to the ground but yeah I'm done with it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graffin226 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Wait a minute, I don't mean to drag this on, I'm seriously trying to understand this ruling, but isn't a fumbled ball recovered in the end zone by the fumbler a TD? You say you can not regain possession in mid-air, but once there is a fumble, isn't it a live ball in the end zone here? And unless it goes out of bounds or is recovered by the defense it should be a TD if it is indeed recovered by RGIII? As silly as it sounds, once RG3 lost the ball, he fell under the rules for wide receivers. A WR doesn't get the completion if he comes down out of bounds, So while RG3 regained control in air and breaking the plane, he landed out of bounds (and the ball popped out) thus failing to regain possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 People are confusing this issue too much talking about wide recievers and catching the ball or what not. I blame the former ref on Fox that keeps talking about it in those terms. Here's the relevant rules for the NFL. Rule 3, Section 2, Article 4: "A fumble is any act, other than a pass or kick, which results in loss of player possession." Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7: "A player is in possessoin when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds When Griffin's hands completely came off the ball, he no longer has a "firm grip and control" of the ball and thus it is a "fumble". So that's the rules relating to him fumbling. Now in terms of the recover. Rule 3, Section 2, Article 3: "A loose ball is a live ball that is not in player position, i.e., any kick, pass, or fumble" So once he fumbles the ball, it's considered a "loose ball". So how can one regain possession over a "loose ball"? That's explained in Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7 in a rather long fashion, so we're going to take it piece by piece. "To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted, or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet or any other part of his body, other than his hands, completely on the ground inbounds, and maintain control of the ball long enough to perform any act common to the game." Okay, so let's take a look at this first part. Griffin regains a grip on the ball while both of his feet are touching the 1 yard line. However, he doesn't have any real ability to perform any common act as he's in the middle of the dive. The only thing he can do is try to simply maintain control to the ground. So he can't be said to have regained possession at that point, so no TD yet. "If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession. This rule applies in the field of play and in the end zone. The terms catch, intercept, recover, advance, and fumble denote player possession (as distinguished from touching or muffing)." This part is irrelevant to this play, as he doesn't lose the ball prior or simultaneous with touching the ground. "Note 1: A player who goes to the ground in the process of attempting to secure possession of a loose ball (with or without contact by an opponent) must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, there is no possession. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, it is a catch, interception, or recovery." This, strangely, is also irrelevant. At first it looks like it could matter, because Griffin's two feet MAY have been down in bounds in the end zone. However, he failed to maintain control throughout the process of contacting the ground. He lost control of the ball. Now this note suggests that if he REGAINS control prior to the ball touching the ground (which he seemingly does as it bounces off of him and back into his hands) it'd be okay IF he was in the field of play. But he wasn't, he was out of bounds. Which takes us to the kicker... "Note 2: If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the process of attempting to secure possession of a loose ball at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout hte process of contacting the ground, or there is no possession" That's the dagger. Griffin regained control of the fumble at the one yard line, but because he was in a dive he had no ability to make an act "common to the game" and thus did not have possession at that point in time, so no TD there. Being in said dive, Griffin went to the ground while attempting to regain possession, but failed to maintain control of the ball throughout the process, thus he did not have "possession" at that point in time, and so no TD there either. And while he did eventually have secure control of that ball, that occured after he was already out of bounds without possession of the football, so he as unable to gain possession of the ball at that time. Basically, the moment both his hands went off the ball it was a "loose ball", and to recover a "loose ball" you have to: 1) Control it 2a) Maintain control while making a football move 2b) Maintain control while going to the ground Because he was in the middle of his dive when he regained control he was unable to make any other type of football move. His only option was to control the ball while going to the ground. And unfortunately that just didn't happen. If that was in the middle of the end zone, it would've been a touch down because THEN the bounce and land on his chest...which he then secured...would've been considered gaining possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 HumbleSkins @johnnylocal now RGIII's touchdown, only one thing is clear, the Skins keep dusting off the books, both record and rules. #notinagoodway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Great post ZRagone, it just seems like a hellacious amount of interpreting multiple different rules and sections to overturn a call in a "stands" league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 ZRagone - Job well done, sir! I hope it's worth it for some here that refuse to believe anything but the "official" conspiracy theory, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Great job Zragone. I find a couple things interesting: 1. On the radio broadcast, Propaganda Larry made absolutely no reference to the fact that the ball came out after Griffin crossed the plane. I haven't listened to him since (I try and avoid it if possible), but I'm sure he's spewing and spinning that this was a TD. It wasn't. 2. That was a GREAT effort by Griffin. He needs to hold onto the ball, but damn, he wanted that TD, and sold out to get it. I liked that a lot. I think that type of effort gains you some respect in the locker room. He got a little unlucky. But I'd take that effort 10 times out of 10. 3. The only criticism that I have on the play is that by going for the TD, Griffin made it an all-or-nothing play. With no chance to get 3 points. At 3-10, I say, yeah, whatever, go for it. If this was a playoff game, I think the smarter play there is to preserve a couple seconds and at least get the 3 points. Eh, I don't fault Griffin at all. This is one of those things that just happens. I'd much prefer to see a fumble like that on an effort play rather than the ball getting knocked out from behind in the pocket because some OL missed a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hi. Sitting here in N.J. listening to Mike Francessa show from N.Y. The Giant callers are already putting Odel Beckem in the HOF. Mike said he looks as good as Randy Moss did as a rook. Harry Carson said he is so good that people cant take their eyes off him in practice just like Lawrence Taylor. Now after hearing this can I get some opinions about what our Redskins fans think of him and how did Breeland do against him Sunday. I know he blew past our safety on 1 TD catch but I thought Breeland held him down pretty good for the most part. What are your thoughts being that we have to play him 2 times a year from now on. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hi. Sitting here in N.J. listening to Mike Francessa show from N.Y. The Giant callers are already putting Odel Beckem in the HOF. Mike said he looks as good as Randy Moss did as a rook. Harry Carson said he is so good that people cant take their eyes off him in practice just like Lawrence Taylor. Now after hearing this can I get some opinions about what our Redskins fans think of him and how did Breeland do against him Sunday. I know he blew past our safety on 1 TD catch but I thought Breeland held him down pretty good for the most part. What are your thoughts being that we have to play him 2 times a year from now on. Thanks. Comparing him to Lawrence Taylor is just ridiculous. I'm surprised that Carson would make that comparison. He's a good looking rookie wide receiver, which is notable mostly because it's so rare for a rookie wide receiver to look this good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Let's be honest... what receiving corp doesn't seem like a HOF group against Haslett? Maybe not the Jaguars and Cowboys, but pretyy much everyone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Yeah Beckham is a stud no doubt but again, it's like playing your little brother when you're a WR lining up against this secondary and coaching staff. Also, Beckham isn't comparable to a rookie Randy Moss and it's not close. Nobody really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gscott10 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Beckham is a standout receiver. Very good but Breeland is Boss. As a matter of fact Breeland was shadowing Beckham so well that they switched Beckham to the other side and stayed away from Breeland in the 2nd half. Breeland seems to play hard 100% all the time, unlike many of his team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Beckham is a standout receiver. Very good but Breeland is Boss. As a matter of fact Breeland was shadowing Beckham so well that they switched Beckham to the other side and stayed away from Breeland in the 2nd half. Breeland seems to play hard 100% all the time, unlike many of his team mates. Yeah Breeland had the problem of trying to be the top corner against him and not having the safety support needed. For a young corner to be playing as well as he has only show promise for his future. What fans forget is when there is -0- pressure there is not a corner in the HOF, Green, Sanders etc. that would look good. And yes ODB looks good, combine that with a vet QB that was on target? Hard to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah Breeland had the problem of trying to be the top corner against him and not having the safety support needed. For a young corner to be playing as well as he has only show promise for his future. What fans forget is when there is -0- pressure there is not a corner in the HOF, Green, Sanders etc. that would look good. And yes ODB looks good, combine that with a vet QB that was on target? Hard to stop. To add to this, I thought Breeland really held his own yesterday for the most part. Eli and ODB are going to make a lot of DBs look foolish. I didn't love the personal fouls. I also thought that there were a couple of the PIs that were completely, totally, and in every possible way bogus. But he's a 4th round rookie, starting against the #1 receiver on the opponent, and he's playing physical and challenging him. Tell you what: If Breeland was on the Seattle defense, ODB would have been basically shut down. With their pass rush and safety play, Breeland could have pitched a virtual shutout. Let's be honest... what receiving corp doesn't seem like a HOF group against Haslett? Maybe not the Jaguars and Cowboys, but pretyy much everyone else... It's not JUST Haslett's fault. Amerson has regressed, and we have chumps in the secondary, and any roster that has Goldston and Bowen playing meaningful minutes means that you're just not going to get any pass rush with your front four. The personnel side on defense is BAD. The reason that I don't feel even remotely bad for Haslett is that he has input on player personnel, and so he helped choose this bunch of clowns. Offering 12M to Orakpo, where we heard that Haslett was one of the guys really standing on the table for him, was plain stupid. It's also the coaching staff's fault for not making sure that each one of their guys knows where they're supposed to be in every play, or find different guys who know where they're supposed to be. I remember a story from LONG ago, where Buddy Ryan would actually give a test to his defensive players on Friday or Saturday, and if they couldn't pass they test, they couldn't play. Clearly we don't have that type of discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm pretty certain position group specific game plan quizzes/tests are normal league wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm pretty certain position group specific game plan quizzes/tests are normal league wide. Are you telling us that the Skins do the same? Or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Are you telling us that the Skins do the same? Or not? They have tests like who is the #1 WR on their team or who is the Qb of the opposing team? Is he white or black lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 They have tests like who is the #1 WR on their team or who is the Qb of the opposing team? Is he white or black lol? I bet we still fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm pretty certain position group specific game plan quizzes/tests are normal league wide. cooley used to post pictures on his blog of some of the pages from the quizzes he took. this image became famous for a different reason of course .... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Fzu8NZza--/18s4l5f8frr9njpg.jpg (this is the SFW cropped version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 What was the reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.