Stefanskins Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Holy crap... I read that as online men? I became confused about where the thread was heading... Time for glasses or another coffee I think. that is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And I think what Gruden is saying is correct. Look at Luck and look at Griffin. It is about progression at this stage and we are 3 years in. Luck is ensconced now as a franchise guy because of his consistency and progression and so is Wilson in Seattle. Luck is unbelievable who makes so much out of mediocrity. We all know RG3 is not where he needs to be. And of course how long do you wait. The good news is there are so many issues on this team, offensive line, defensive secondary and special teams, it is really okay for this year. But he needs these 7 games so everyone can see if he can stay healthy AND produce. And he has to play the way he was drafted to play. I would love to see RG3 be who we drafted him to be. Not a recreation. Not a project. Yes he IS athletic but he can't just make an across the body throw with arms and legs going every which way, catch a cleat in the turf and blow out an ankle. That is just not going to cut it in the NFL. That is a freaky thing but unfortunately that may be him. So time will tell. Luck is making so much out of mediocrity? Reggie Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, two decent TE's. If that's making much of mediocrity. Wonder what should be said of RG3 whose tandem was Garcon (the Colts former #3 WR as our #1), Morgan, and Moss who couldn't catch anything that year. Now if the point is this year when RG3 comes back to play he has weapons am on board, but up to now Luck had the weapons not RG3. Coming back from ACL injury and having no off season in your 2nd season isn't minor league stuff, its a major league set back. Look at Wilson's numbers at the beginning of last season, he had some horrific games but he picked it up and had a good season. That's with Wilson being 100% healthy and having a full off season to prepare. The comparison context wise for RG3 versus Luck and Wilson is far IMO from apples to apples. Their circumstances are apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I am just hoping he can actually stay on the field. If he can't, nothing said matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins3000 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 A lot of dumb in the world. Griffin is the one person in this organisation you absolutely keep. Not surprised at the lack of patience from our FO/HC though. They went pretty much all in in FA for a win now season, for some dumb ass reason. Not a one of them seems able to look at players and a roster and evaluate worth a damn. Oh it is not the front office making this push to move Griffin, according to insiders it is the coaching staff that has now jumped back on that RG3 wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You keep saying "one year wonders happen, even for rookies". Can you name any one-year wonder at QB who played as efficiently and effectively their rookie season as Griffin did in 2012, or anywhere close to it? Because this seems like the type of statement people say because it sounds correct, without actually looking into the facts that would back it up. The fact is, only four rookie QBs had as anywhere as good a rookie season as RG3 did...none of them were one-year wonders: Griffin Wilson Marino Roethlisberger That's it. I apologize for not replying to this earlier, I didn't see it before right now. To answer your first question; No Qb EVER, successful or not, has had a rookie year like 2012 Griffin, it was record setting. What that has to do with 2014 Griffin baffles me. But if you want an example of a rookie qb who tore the league up as a rookie winning rookie of the year only to flop afterward here you go: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d807434bc/Top-Ten-One-Shot-Wonders-Greg-Cook. You'll note injury was the culprit there as well, except his was trully debilitating due to the lack of technology. With regards to the second part I've quoted, each of those quarterbacks except one went to the SB in either their first or second year, two of them winning it. I'll let you guess which one of the four didn't and which one of the four people still had questions into his 3rd regarding whether he was a franchise qb or not. And again, I am at a loss as to what your example has to do with the 2014 version of Griffin. You write in detail about Griffin's rookie year as if he were still playing it or as if he has up until this point consistenly played at that level. As I and many others have mentioned, he hasn't. 2012 and 2013 were different as night and day. His only samples of play in 2014, other than one series agains Jax, are more in line with his '13 campaing than his '12 season. Half of the Skin's fanbase and almost everyone else who watches the NFL recognize this. As I've stated before, everyone realizes he has the tools to be one of the best in his era and possibly one of the best ever. that is completely up to him though and making excuses for him doesn't change that fact or the fact that he hasn't gotten it done since he re-tweaked the knee in the second quarter of the seattle playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGOheadray Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yeah I heard this crap from Russell at the beginning of training camp. Now Chris once again is repeating it. Personally I am not a Chris Russell fan and his reporting. My issue is every one wants the quarterback to be spectacular like 2012 but the reality is RG3 would have to run a college offense that will eventually catch up to him. Luck struggled and struggled worst than anyone imagined in his rookie year. His QBR rating was in the ranks of Mark Sanchez basically bad but Luck had a good team around him and allowed Luck to play without all the unnecessary ridicule. RG3 should have that luxury but he just does not for some reason. Maybe people are turned off based on the commercials, or the marketing of himself but personally none of that matters to me. As long as RG3 is being a law abiding citizen I could care less about his locker room demeanor as Al Galdi has stated in a vague manner on the Drive. It all boils down to me if A. the player gets a fair shot at being a legitimate quarterback, B. Are they trying to develop the quarterback by coaching the player adequately and understanding the player is a raw talent and not NFL ready like Kirk Cousins was. The coaching staff also realizing it will take this year and that in my opinion is now a wash and next year to really know what this team has at quarterback. Have to Disagree here. The colts were the worst team in the league the year before they bought in Luck. Luck also had the ability that year to win games in the 4th qtr and dig his team out of holes that admitinglly he put them in with his early season turnovers. He also broke a few records his rookie season " most game winning drives by a rookie QB"; Most passing yards by a rookie in a single season; etc. This is a example where only looking at he QBR without context doesn't give a complete story. Luck was and is the better QB and is why the colts were smart to tank for him unlike us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Is the op rg2? I apologize for not replying to this earlier, I didn't see it before right now. To answer your first question; No Qb EVER, successful or not, has had a rookie year like 2012 Griffin, it was record setting. What that has to do with 2014 Griffin baffles me. But if you want an example of a rookie qb who tore the league up as a rookie winning rookie of the year only to flop afterward here you go: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d807434bc/Top-Ten-One-Shot-Wonders-Greg-Cook. You'll note injury was the culprit there as well, except his was trully debilitating due to the lack of technology. With regards to the second part I've quoted, each of those quarterbacks except one went to the SB in either their first or second year, two of them winning it. I'll let you guess which one of the four didn't and which one of the four people still had questions into his 3rd regarding whether he was a franchise qb or not. And again, I am at a loss as to what your example has to do with the 2014 version of Griffin. You write in detail about Griffin's rookie year as if he were still playing it or as if he has up until this point consistenly played at that level. As I and many others have mentioned, he hasn't. 2012 and 2013 were different as night and day. His only samples of play in 2014, other than one series agains Jax, are more in line with his '13 campaing than his '12 season. Half of the Skin's fanbase and almost everyone else who watches the NFL recognize this. As I've stated before, everyone realizes he has the tools to be one of the best in his era and possibly one of the best ever. that is completely up to him though and making excuses for him doesn't change that fact or the fact that he hasn't gotten it done since he re-tweaked the knee in the second quarter of the seattle playoff game. I have to disagree Our qb Sammy Baugh was better than rg3 as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 2012 is a long time ago in football years folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes. But he has had one major one in the pros, and this while not major, was significant because he lost so much time. And of course he had the ACL issue in Baylor which he came back from. So let's just say yes, "every NFL player is an injury waiting to happen" yet there are many players that are franchise QB's who have never experienced even one of these injuries, let alone the totality of RG3's. It is just a fact you can't avoid. And I think what Gruden is saying is correct. Look at Luck and look at Griffin. It is about progression at this stage and we are 3 years in. Luck is ensconced now as a franchise guy because of his consistency and progression and so is Wilson in Seattle. Luck is unbelievable who makes so much out of mediocrity. We all know RG3 is not where he needs to be. And of course how long do you wait. The good news is there are so many issues on this team, offensive line, defensive secondary and special teams, it is really okay for this year. But he needs these 7 games so everyone can see if he can stay healthy AND produce. And he has to play the way he was drafted to play. I would love to see RG3 be who we drafted him to be. Not a recreation. Not a project. Yes he IS athletic but he can't just make an across the body throw with arms and legs going every which way, catch a cleat in the turf and blow out an ankle. That is just not going to cut it in the NFL. That is a freaky thing but unfortunately that may be him. So time will tell. You are right we all know where RG3 should be. But people that keep comparing his progression to Luck and Wilson are not viewing to full picture of each QB's career since they entered the league. All things being equal in 2012, RG3 out performed ALL of them. Hell Andrew Luck was the second coming of Kirk Cousins with turnovers yr 1. RG3 won ROY when all things where equal and ALL where healthy. Year 2- RG3 is rehabbing, has NO off season, NONE. All while Luck and Wilson do, and have their same coaching staff in place. Hell Indy goes and hire Luck offensive coordinator to help Lucks progression year 2. Wilson was NOT asked to carry his team EVER since being at Seattle. But nevertheless he is a good QB. Year-3 Luck and Wilson both have the same offenses they started their careers in. They both are healthy. RG3 has to learn yet another offense year 3. Coach upon coach upon coach have said many many times, it takes at least 3yrs for a QB to feel comfortable in an offense. So comparing his progression to Luck and Wilson, is a bit unfair when you consider the entire picture. I remember when I went from high school to D1, I had NEVER saw a playbook in my life before that. In high school we where all on the sidelines with our coaches drawing up plays in the dirt. Got to college and they gave me a book with as many pages as a bible and said "here's your playbook son"! It literally had my head spinning. I had to memorize ALL of those coverages, my keys, my correct fits for run support etc etc. It drove me crazy my first year. I played hesitant damn near the whole year because I didn't want to mess up. Can you imagine if you played college D1 football, what the hell a NFL QB playbook looks like? RG3 had to learn 2 of them in 3 years! That's A LOT more complicated than many realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 2012 is a long time ago in football years folks. I wish some had told Eli Manning, Steve Young, Drew Brees and Doug Williams that 2 years was more than enough time to become Superbowl winning QB's. Maybe they would've played A LOT better early in their careers had they knew they only had 2 years to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I have to disagree Our qb Sammy Baugh was better than rg3 as a rookie. Ah yes. I'm sure you remember 1937 fondly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm still not totally convinced that the sport Sammy Baugh played was actually football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ya'll make me flip-flop on a myriad of discussions. But, I'm not on RG3!! He is going to come back and tear up this league again. The Boys are not going to know what hit'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Luck is making so much out of mediocrity? Reggie Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, two decent TE's. If that's making much of mediocrity. Wonder what should be said of RG3 whose tandem was Garcon (the Colts former #3 WR as our #1), Morgan, and Moss who couldn't catch anything that year. Now if the point is this year when RG3 comes back to play he has weapons am on board, but up to now Luck had the weapons not RG3. Coming back from ACL injury and having no off season in your 2nd season isn't minor league stuff, its a major league set back. Look at Wilson's numbers at the beginning of last season, he had some horrific games but he picked it up and had a good season. That's with Wilson being 100% healthy and having a full off season to prepare. The comparison context wise for RG3 versus Luck and Wilson is far IMO from apples to apples. Their circumstances are apples to oranges. Of course I am talking about this year. I wrote off last year when I saw the brace. We both agree what RG3 had going into this season was comparable to Lucks group and I think we have better with Garcon, Jackson, Roberts, and Reed. But unlike Luck RG3 looked lost this year until the game he got injured in where they began to combine a bit of the read option. Prior to that they were trying to "recreate" him into a pocket passer and it just can't work at this level because of the speed of the game. Maybe you could do that with a guy in college, not level 1 of course, but never the pros. He has got to play the way he was drafted to play. That is him. So I see it this way. RG3 comes back and runs a combination of read option (which is here to stay in the NFL by the way) and some pocket passing. And I think that will work well for him and if he stays healthy then the Skins are good to go at QB. But that offensive line is offensive as we all know and it needs a major upgrade, which that clown show Jerry Jones did for Romo. We have a lot of needs but if you recall in 2012 top notch QB play sparked the whole team so you cannot underestimate that factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins3000 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Have to Disagree here. The colts were the worst team in the league the year before they bought in Luck. Luck also had the ability that year to win games in the 4th qtr and dig his team out of holes that admitinglly he put them in with his early season turnovers. He also broke a few records his rookie season " most game winning drives by a rookie QB"; Most passing yards by a rookie in a single season; etc. This is a example where only looking at he QBR without context doesn't give a complete story. Luck was and is the better QB and is why the colts were smart to tank for him unlike us..... The guy threw 627 times in 2012 in order to gain those yards and only completed 54.1 percent of his passes along with 23 tds and 18 int. That QBR is indicative of Luck having a good team around him to mask his deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Have to Disagree here. The colts were the worst team in the league the year before they bought in Luck. Luck also had the ability that year to win games in the 4th qtr and dig his team out of holes that admitinglly he put them in with his early season turnovers. He also broke a few records his rookie season " most game winning drives by a rookie QB"; Most passing yards by a rookie in a single season; etc. This is a example where only looking at he QBR without context doesn't give a complete story. Luck was and is the better QB and is why the colts were smart to tank for him unlike us..... The Colts where a bad team the year before "because" of bad QB play. They had their 3rd string QB starting LOL! Luck should've had the most 4th qtr for a rookie with as many picks he threw that year. But, who cares, Luck is NOT a Washington Redskins, so I could careless. Just saying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Ah yes. I'm sure you remember 1937 fondly. I party like its 1929. Back to the topic if we don't try to make rg3 manning he's a franchise qb. I feel bad because rg3 was put in a bad situation when his dad started talking. I think Larry handled it better but he's also much older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The guy threw 627 times in 2012 in order to gain those yards and only completed 54.1 percent of his passes along with 23 tds and 18 int. That QBR is indicative of Luck having a good team around him to mask his deficiencies. He was a rookie running a professional offense. Do you know how good you have to be for the coaches to even put that kind of pressure on a rookie? To give him the entire playbook? To give him well over 600 pass attempts? Sorry but his "deficiencies" were that he didn't have NFL game experience, not from a lack of talent. We see now that he's well one his way to being one of the top QB's in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGOheadray Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The guy threw 627 times in 2012 in order to gain those yards and only completed 54.1 percent of his passes along with 23 tds and 18 int. That QBR is indicative of Luck having a good team around him to mask his deficiencies. That year the colts lacked a running game and asked a rookie to win games for them; He did and took them to the playoffs that year. Luck didn't have alfred morris to lean on as RG3 did. Luck had the entire playbookopen for him day one in a pro style offense. Three years later and we are still trying to figure out what kind of offense can RG3 run that won't get him killed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I certainly hope so, cuz the Skins gave up a king's ransom for him. However I can understand why some posters are skeptical, he's had three injuries (2 reconstructed knees, 1 dislocated ankle) and is still pretty raw when it comes to operating a pro offense. Kirk Grossman just flat out sucks. This guy can't read defenses and chokes more than Romo when the game is close. Colt McCoy is Colt McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The definition of " franchise QB" is skewed in the NFL.. What exactly defines a franchise QB?? I'm assuming Andrew Luck has solidified himself in many people's eyes as a franchise QB right? Well he is currently #3 in the NFL with the most interceptions thrown this season behind Blake Bortles and Geno Smith!! He's tied with Kirk Cousins who I guess we decided wasn't a franchise QB. Luck has thrown more interceptions the past three years than any other QB in his class. He's thrown only 23 TDs in each of the past two seasons in the league ( Ryan Tannehill numbers). But we arn't sure if Tannehill is a franchise QB yet.. Oh yea and there's Griffin. A QB who's career numbers on average are better than the so called "franchise guy" but we don't know if he's the guy yet?? The NFL is a good ole boy network of people who listen to one another. Noone thinks independently! Noone thinks outside the box. Everybody wants the next Peyton Manning without realizing that Manning is equivalent to Michael Jordan in basketball! Like Jordan, you'll never see a Peyton Manning again so people need to stop expecting the "franchise" guy to look like him! You can win a championship with a guy like Russell Wilson. Who may not put up big passing efforts but is clearly a franchise guy. ( Even though some still speculate whether he is a franchise QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Of course I am talking about this year. But unlike Luck RG3 looked lost this year until the game he got injured in where they began to combine a bit of the read option. Your point, unlike Luck, RG3 looked lost this year and RG3 this year has the weapons, etc. Seems kind of silly, the dude played one game and we can say he looked lost this year as if he had a year? He played one game where he had almost an 80% completion rate with no picks. The next game he looked great for a short stint. So lets rap that up as a bad season and compare it apples to apples to Luck's full season? Yes I've seen him look better than the game against Texas but that wasn't exactly a debacle either. Watt owned Polumbus. The dude didn't have much time to throw. After that game, the rap on some of the people bashing RG3 was Polumbus is fine he just looks bad becuase RG3 makes him look bad. Well, now that the same thing has gone down with Kirk when it comes to Polumbus, people finally seem to accept that Polumbus is just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 You never have enough QBs. If Skins have a shot at Mariotta ... they have to pull the trigger. Especially so in view of RG3's injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 When Griffin comes back, he should have at least 5-6 games to determine whether he's actually back or not. I hope it doesn't happen, but if he does end up getting hurt again THIS year, then there's no doubt they have to consider another route. Injuries suck, and staying healthy is a must for any QB who wants to succeed. I'd fully expect that when his contract comes up, they will keep the issues in mind when/if they decide to sign him, but thus far I haven't seen anything that calls for a big contract for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Only the Redskins and our fanbase can turn a phenomenal prospect like Robert Griffin and devalue him to his current level of perception. And we wonder why we don't have nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.