WP The Insider: Is Bruce Allen to blame for the Redskins' current mess?

[gibbsfan2018]

Vinnys been gone, almost, 5 years. There comes a point to let it go focusing on the here and now. Hes gone now thats all that matters.

Maybe I am giving Bruce to long of a leash, however Vinny was so bad.  I remember us losing our right DE on your and he gives up a 2nd round pick for an aging LEFT DE.  Even my kids scratched their heads.

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's Snyder. It's always been Snyder.

We've sucked through multiple personnel guys and multiple coaches.

The common denominator is Snyder.

I think it was Snyder.

Now I think it's the people that Snyder trusts.

[elkabong82]

4 games in to year 1 of new coach, with Bruce legitimately in charge, and we have a severe rash of injuries. 

 

Yep, seems like the perfect time to start pointing finger... if you have an axe to grind. Proof of this lays with the OP's own agenda and him being baited by it into posting this drivel.

 

Thanks for more baseless speculation ComPost. 

 

We'll never know who was responsible for the RGIII trade.   Let's just agree that Mike, Dan and Bruce are all equally responsible.   

 

Common sense knows. It was Mike Shanahan.

[chipwhich]

Again, what do you define as a real GM that Bruce isn't?  Not a personnel guy?  Sure.  That's why you hire one.  What else?

 

Presumably, when Bruce was hired a few months before Zorn was fired, he was doing that evaluation of the rest of the organization.  While his hands were tied as far as who the head coach was going to be, he probably did have a lot to say about who else he kept or hired.  I do not at all think that Bruce was a figurehead.  Just because one doesn't have all the responsibility doesn't mean he doesn't have some.

 

Also, the problem with your plan probably would either require firing Gruden after one season, or sticking your FO guy with a coach he never hired.  Such situations rarely work out well.

 

As said above, let things play out with Gruden before you talk about firing Allen.  Washedup2 has a good point that we have been in most of these games, despite numerous injuries.  It is frustrating, but a coach deserves a couple of seasons to prove himself and doesn't need massive shakeups in who he's working with in the front office while he's doing it.

 

BRUCE DIDN'T HIRE SHANNAHAN.  That's what GM's do.  What isn't clear to you.  And yes he was a figurehead, he was hired solely for the purpose of improving the relationship with the fans and Dan Snyder.

 

I am glad you are happy with this Mickey Mouse format, like I said in 4 years we can hope for real change.

[aqq]

4 games in to year 1 of new coach, with Bruce legitimately in charge, and we have a severe rash of injuries. 

 

Yep, seems like the perfect time to start pointing finger... if you have an axe to grind. Proof of this lays with the OP's own agenda and him being baited by it into posting this drivel.

 

Thanks for more baseless speculation ComPost. 

 

 

.

So sick of fans who always accept waiting. Its not as simple as is only 4 games and a new coach. Daniel Snyder has LONG history of losing. Everybody tries to reason in their head that because Bruce Allen wasn't the main decision maker in the Shanahan era he gets a pass. Its a JOKE. Franchises that have a 3-13 season don't promote their assistant GM and keep their defensive coordinator on a 29th ranked defense and expect to get better.

[Stormy]

BRUCE DIDN'T HIRE SHANNAHAN. That's what GM's do. What isn't clear to you. And yes he was a figurehead, he was hired solely for the purpose of improving the relationship with the fans and Dan Snyder.

I am glad you are happy with this Mickey Mouse format, like I said in 4 years we can hope for real change.

Agreed.

A 'legitimate GM' doesn't take a figurehead role in a front office for 4 years, while a head coach makes all of a franchises personnel decisions. A legitimate GM doesn't then take back the GM title, maintain that all the dysfunction was the fault of the aforementioned head coach, and then opt to keep 60-70% of the previous regimes coaching staff, scouting department and front office intact (especially a previous regime that was 24-40). There is just no way that anyone can buy that this is the process whereby a franchise hires a new GM.

That said, I think it is premature to hold Bruce accountable for the big picture. Things must change at the defensive coordinator position, and in the scouting department if the current track record continues, ironically the very areas Bruce should have addressed in the first place, but it's too early to be calling for Bruce or Gruden's head, in my opinion.

[NoCalMike]

IMO, The Shanahan-Allen hiring felt like a co-opt thing. It might not be fair to Allen but the general consensus was that he was brought in soley because Shanahan demanded control over player personnel and Allen would be the guy who could make the numbers work out.

 

Does this mean that Allen is awful at talent evaluation? Not necessarily, but anytime you have a GM that was seemingly a yes man, it is going to be a huge strike.

[SkinsFTW]

Does this mean that Allen is awful at talent evaluation? Not necessarily, but anytime you have a GM that was seemingly a yes man, it is going to be a huge strike.

 

Nobody wanted to hear it back in 2009-2010 but now apparently most agree that he was brought in as basically Cerrato 2.0 except at first Shanahan was running alot of the show but now it's really Snyderatto 2.0 with Allen (sort of like when Gibbs left in 2008) just like Allen in Oakland or Allen in Tampa. He's not the guy stocking the kitchen. He's the guy at the door greeting the customers.

 

At least hes 10x better with the cap and doesn't chase this years version of Haynesworth but we really don't know if that's just Snyder learning his lesson finally or maybe there just wasn't a big enough name out there for Snyder to get excited over, (We were the highest bidder for Desean Jackson though, what a surprise) or maybe Allen is better at talking Snyder down for now. Allen gets credit for whatever happens but anybody believing that behind the scenes Snyder isn't throwing in his draft chart and fantasy list during Free Agency don't understand how megalomaniacs work.

 

We will find out eventually though if this tandem lasts. Sooner or later a guy like Haynesworth will be sitting there in Free Agency and then we will find out who is the first team mentioned in talks in early March.

[Grinder]

I'm with everyone who thinks this whole thing is built on a huge pile of quicksand.

 

(Come to think of it can you even have a 'pile' of quicksand? Are the physics possible? Is this what an aneurism feels like?)

 

We are just spinning our wheels until we find an actual general manager, who is not connected in any way to Dan, who is not also trying to be the head coach, and who is given autonomy to hire coaches and rebuild this roster. 

 

THEN we play the waiting game while the team is put together over the course of a few seasons. 

 

To commit to that under the current staff is just guaranteeing that everyone here will be having this same discussion a few years from now. 

 

This is nothing more than a collection of friends that have been gifted positions of authority on this team, none with the history to support it. 

[Bobbyst21]

Who is to blame? We are. We as fans are. For continuing to go to the games. For watching on TV. For buying any merchandise at all.

The raiders and the jaguars will both surpass us by next season, leaving us as the WORST team in the NFL. Think about that for a minute.

Keep feeding this broken machine, and it'll keep eating. I'm not changing my favorite team, but month supporting them either.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

If someone were to let a monkey drive their car and the monkey ran over a bunch of people, you wouldn't blame the monkey.

[elkabong82]

 

.

So sick of fans who always accept waiting. Its not as simple as is only 4 games and a new coach. Daniel Snyder has LONG history of losing. Everybody tries to reason in their head that because Bruce Allen wasn't the main decision maker in the Shanahan era he gets a pass. Its a JOKE. Franchises that have a 3-13 season don't promote their assistant GM and keep their defensive coordinator on a 29th ranked defense and expect to get better.

 

 

Cool. I'm sick of fans who let agendas obscure common sense.

 

Allen was in charge of contracts and some PR stuff under Shanahan. It was well-known and established by insiders here that Shanny called all the shots. You have ZERO proof Allen was responsible for any decisions under Shanny. Meanwhile, we have Shanahan's past as well as his title here as proof. 

 

I didn't want the DC either, few did, that's a decision Gruden must learn from. Allen's track record qualifies him to be a GM, and plenty of teams have retained people and promoted people under a GM that was let go or head coach fired.

 

But my original point was we are only a few games into a new regime and have faced a ton of injuries. I'm sick of impatient fans who just want to leap to blame to satisfy a stupid agenda. You can't expect to get better if you don't establish some consistency.

Who is to blame? We are. We as fans are. For continuing to go to the games. For watching on TV. For buying any merchandise at all.

The raiders and the jaguars will both surpass us by next season, leaving us as the WORST team in the NFL. Think about that for a minute.

Keep feeding this broken machine, and it'll keep eating. I'm not changing my favorite team, but month supporting them either.

 

Hahahahahaha! The Raiders and Jaguars are far, far worse off. Guess you forgot the whooping we put on the Jags. 

 

We have a very good, young offense and we have a potentially good DL. One offseason of getting 2 good OL and a good DC and this team is just fine. You're being overdramatic and it's causing you to stray from reason.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Hahahahahaha! The Raiders and Jaguars are far, far worse off.

Yeah, about that… Both of those teams have finished ahead of us in the standings in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

[elkabong82]

Yeah, about that… Both of those teams have finished ahead of us in the standings in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

 

Yeah, about that.... this is year 1 of new regime so those past seasons don't actually matter. As of right now our offense is in much, much better shape for the future than those other 2 teams and defense has talent just needs a better DC. We are in much better shape going forward than those two teams, anyone looking at things objectively can see that. 

 

But let me know when the last time was they won the division or faced a BS cap penalty that crippled their offseason moves and player retention. Maybe you should go back and read the rest of my post, the specifics about why I feel this team is better off than those two, and counter that point rather than drudge up irrelevant seasons while omitting serious impacts and ignoring the year we won the division.

[aqq]

Yeah, about that.... this is year 1 of new regime so those past seasons don't actually matter. As of right now our offense is in much, much better shape for the future than those other 2 teams and defense has talent just needs a better DC. We are in much better shape going forward than those two teams, anyone looking at things objectively can see that. 

 

But let me know when the last time was they won the division or faced a BS cap penalty that crippled their offseason moves and player retention. Maybe you should go back and read the rest of my post, the specifics about why I feel this team is better off than those two, and counter that point rather than drudge up irrelevant seasons while omitting serious impacts and ignoring the year we won the division.

I think this guy is Daniel Synder.

[ihateusernames]

Nice try, but you missed by a large margin.  Snyder has stepped back and done EVERYTHING that the fans have wanted him to do since day one. 

 

 

 

 

Who hired Allen??

 

This logic I'll never understand.  This logic makes Snyder untouchable.  For Snyder can hire absolute GARBAGE General Managers for the next 400 years if he lives that long (and he probably will) and everyone will also just blame the men he hired and NOT HIM FOR HIS POOR EVALUATIONS OF THE GMs he's hiring!

 

I'm not saying Bruce is bad.  No, I'm not there yet.  I need another year.  but if it goes wrong, SNYDER IS THE GUY DOING THE HIRING.  HES RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE RIGHT MEN TO RUN HIS FOOTBALL ORGANIZATION.

[chipwhich]

But let me know when the last time was they won the division or faced a BS cap penalty that crippled their offseason moves and player retention. Maybe you should go back and read the rest of my post, the specifics about why I feel this team is better off than those two, and counter that point rather than drudge up irrelevant seasons while omitting serious impacts and ignoring the year we won the division.

 

Crippled their offseason???????  Are you for real????  You mean your offseason Super Bowl champion trophy didn't get awarded one year?  You wanted Shanny to do further damage with bad players.  Wow.

 

I will give you the best clue anyone ever gave you.  Our franchise isn't in shambles because of the cap penalty.  Say that over and over in your head. 

[big z]

Its pretty simple guys. We're ****ed. Just keep the beer flowin when the games are on and try to have a good time.

[SkinsFTW]

If someone were to let a monkey drive their car and the monkey ran over a bunch of people, you wouldn't blame the monkey.

 

But if you could convince anybody who cared that the monkey was Richard Petty you could get away with it once or twice, or three or four times as is the case here.

[SkinsFTW]

I'm not saying Bruce is bad.  No, I'm not there yet.  I need another year.  but if it goes wrong, SNYDER IS THE GUY DOING THE HIRING.  HES RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE RIGHT MEN TO RUN HIS FOOTBALL ORGANIZATION.

 

He only hires guys like Cerrato and Allen who he can be buddies with and always have his 2c thrown in for every decisions that is being made. The one year of Schottenheimer was more than he could take and hiring the inept Shanahan, who was inept his entire time running everything in Denver, probably proves it in his mind that he's just as well off with the Snyderatto model.

 

Hey at least Allen has a chance of succeeding and actually following the information the scouting department provides, not that we know that's how it works now. Did the scouting department actually recommend that draft and paying Desean Jackson that money? Who knows.

[drowland]

Skins need a real football man calling the shots on the roster.  Best example is Santana Moss. I appreciate what Moss has done for Skins over the years, but now he's a waste of a roster spot.  How many other teams keep a healthy 35 year old WR on the roster who doesn't play special teams and is inactive every week?  Meanwhile the Skins are short at TE and are trying to use Niles Paul as a blocker and he's getting crushed.  They need that spot to sign someone who can help.  Instead it's a PR move to hold a ceremonious roster spot for a player who's not helping this team win games.

[You'reNext]

Post writers needs to get his head out of the sand.  The true problem is Dan Snyder.  The whole team has a losing atmosphere and the players are just playing for their paychecks.

Who hired Allen??

 

This logic I'll never understand.  This logic makes Snyder untouchable.  For Snyder can hire absolute GARBAGE General Managers for the next 400 years if he lives that long (and he probably will) and everyone will also just blame the men he hired and NOT HIM FOR HIS POOR EVALUATIONS OF THE GMs he's hiring!

 

I'm not saying Bruce is bad.  No, I'm not there yet.  I need another year.  but if it goes wrong, SNYDER IS THE GUY DOING THE HIRING.  HES RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE RIGHT MEN TO RUN HIS FOOTBALL ORGANIZATION.

 

I think some people idolize King Dan and worship him like he is some franchise football player.  He's been the one constant.  Players, Coaches, GM's come and go put that giant King Dan poster still hangs on the wall.

[skins island connection]

If someone were to let a monkey drive their car and the monkey ran over a bunch of people, you wouldn't blame the monkey.

 

 Some would blame the people for being in the way.

 

 Allen's hiring was more of a nostalgic hiring than anything.  The infamous saying ' who's your daddy' applied more to his hiring than his abilities IMO.

 The next position hiring might be Jack Kent Cooke's nephew, or maybe Riggins' brother-in-law.

 

 Gotta give credit to Snyder, he DID step back from the hands-on approach, it just sucks that his choices have not faired any better.

[chipwhich]

 Gotta give credit to Snyder, he DID step back from the hands-on approach, it just sucks that his choices have not faired any better.

 

Snyder stepped back when Gibbs was here too.  Giving Shanny control/Gibbs control really isn't any "change" in my mind.  Oh well, no use rehashing history.  Unless real change occurs we will remain as a substandard franchise.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Snyder was VERY involved when Gibbs was here. There are many, many quotes from Gibbs to that affect. Danny loved it. The greatest coach in Redskins history let him play football guy and pretend to be on the same level.