I want to sue the republican party for willful denial of scientific evidence about climate change.

[The Sisko]

The question for me has always been this-- where do we draw the line, in particular when we live in this global community where everyone else has to be on board.  Bottom line is that is easier and cheaper to produce goods without restrictive environmental regulation. Less cost, more production, better economy relative to our competitors on an international scale.  If we give a foot, how many inches do we need China to give? Or Russia?  Or India? Is this just a global game of chicken?  And if we submit while our competitors don't, are we going to lose our position as the economic powerhouse?  Does that effect our national defense?  Any here honestly want China acting as the world's police force? Is it too much of a gamble to invest in green energy now, because that's based on an assumption that it will not only be cheaper, but at least equally efficient in 30 years? 

 

Fossil fuel resources remain abundant.  One thing I love about that sneaky little Obama guy (other than the fact that he had the nuts to finish off Bin Laden by invading the sovereignty of a feux-ally) is that the U.S. is now (correct me if i'm wrong) the No. 1 producer of oil in the world, thanks to new methods of extraction (maybe its all forms of energy, I know natural gas and fracking is big).  And we have massive, untapped off shore oil reserves, not to mention Alaska. Gives us a nice little cushion to continue the green energy charge, and I believe we need to take the lead. Just not at the expense of sacrificing too much.

This is exactly the adult conversation we should be having about climate change. However it's easier and more effective for the GOP to pander to their base with lies, misdirection and foolishness. I wonder why that might be and who benefits from it? Well, as the saying goes, just follow the money. Mike posted some pretty good links for that purpose.

 

That's not to say that the Dems are perfect or even good. They're subject to the same institutionalized graft of our political/legal system as the GOP is. As Skinsmarydu said, our choices are pretty lousy. Either vote for the lesser of two evils or even worse, don't vote at all.

 

The sad truth about us as a country is that until things get so awful that people are ready to go nuts en-masse, e.g. the great depression, we're happy to sit back and take it like the ugly chick in the porno. We blather on about how much we love freedom, freedom ain't free and how much we're willing to die for our country and all that nonsense. However at the same time we won't bother to actually take a few minutes to become informed about issues and think critically about who we're voting for and why. As a result, we get the government we deserve because we continually allow the likes of Honey Boo Boo to drive our agenda and elect our "leaders".

 

To paraphrase David Cross regarding W's use of the phrase "They hate our freedom", when I look at what we've done (or failed to do) with our freedom, hell, I hate it too.

[Koolblue13]

I thought we were at a point where we all agreed the climate was changing, but it came down to if you believed it was influenced by humans, like 97 percent of scientist do.

[The Sisko]

I thought we were at a point where we all agreed the climate was changing, but it came down to if you believed it was influenced by humans, like 97 percent of scientist do.

That was the fallback position when the Tealiban decided they couldn't pass off the lie about climate change not happening any more. I find it interesting and sad that none of them seemed to notice the pivot on that.

[Kilmer17]

I thought we were at a point where we all agreed the climate was changing, but it came down to if you believed it was influenced by humans, like 97 percent of scientist do.

See, I thought we were even past THAT point, and were now discussing what the impact of humans actually is, and what the repercussions would be if we began "cleaning up" so to speak.

[mcsluggo]

See, I thought we were even past THAT point, and were now discussing what the impact of humans actually is, and what the repercussions would be if we began "cleaning up" so to speak.

 

I think we *should* be there.... but i don't think we are there.

[Rocky21]

I am absolutely baffled that anyone at this point can refute that the world climate is changing.

Who's doing that?

A U.S. senator (this week in fact)

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/29/gop_senator_blocks_resolution_acknowledging_that_climate_change_is_happening/

 

and nearly one quarter of the US population. 

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/more-americans-dont-believe-global-warming-happening-survey-20140117

Edited August 1, 2014 by Rocky21

[Mad Mike]

I have to come back to this...

 

 

and of course people that think they can tell you the science is settled 

 

 

You mean the people actually listening to the experts who put men on the moon and are conducting missions to mars? 

 

 

 

or impose their opinions on another. 

 

You mean like these guys?.....

 

 

Democracy for New Mexico: Tea Party Protesters Gunning for Attention in Alamogordo

 

And quite frankly, I consider such displays and threats by tea party "patriots" as a direct threat to me and *my* beliefs.

 

Que the "that's not MY tea party" response....

[The Sisko]

And quite frankly, I consider such displays and threats by tea party "patriots" as a direct threat to me and *my* beliefs.

 

Que the "that's not MY tea party" response....

Actually I think the stock response is that such people are merely isolated individuals. The Tealiban is largely made up of sensible, everyday people who don't believe anything the people wearing guns holding violent signs, saying racist stuff or espousing conspiracy theories say. They just like to vote in lockstep with them for the fun of it I guess.

[Burgold]

Where we should be is... Climate change is real. Now, what part of that is him a driven and more importantly, what part can we mitigate?

[ZRagone]

Laugh away.

After this wonderful belching of delusions of grandeur and over inflated self confidence? Will do.

Thinking you in any way shape or for can sue a politician or political party to force them to change their stance on policy is laughable and can only be conceived by one who is both immense in ego and fringe in their hyper partisanship

Edited August 1, 2014 by ZRagone

[Zazzaro703]

I live in Lake Tahoe. We've gotten pretty much no snow the last 3 winters and this summer have had more cloudy rainy days than sunny. A summer like this is unheard of. It feels like the East coast up here, humid and hot during the day, then the clouds roll in during the afternoon for a storm in the evening. Climate Change is real. Want to fix it, stop voting all of these idiots into the senate and house. Don't cast a single ballot for any Republican or Democratic candidate. They have all had many chances and have failed us. Many times.

[Larry]

After this wonderful belching of delusions of grandeur and over inflated self confidence? Will do.

Thinking you in any way shape or for can sue a politician or political party to force them to change their stance on policy is laughable and can only be conceived by one who is both immense in ego and fringe in their hyper partisanship

Anybody want to tell him?

[Zazzaro703]

If you are lining up on election day to cast your ballot for Rep or Dem, you are part of the problem and shouldn't complain. You have been enabling these parties to act like fools, fight with each other, point fingers at each other and ultimately get nothing done while getting rich.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Zazzaro703

[twa]

I'll point as I have done for years, the science that says the basic science that supports CO2 has a green house gas and therefore will cause changes in the climate goes back hundreds of years to a famous chemist called Arrhenius and that science essentially stand unrefuted.

 

and that little nugget changes nothing,nor are we in a bubble

 

 

I have to come back to this...

 

 

You mean the people actually listening to the experts who put men on the moon and are conducting missions to mars? 

 

 

You mean like these guys?.....

 

 

Democracy for New Mexico: Tea Party Protesters Gunning for Attention in Alamogordo

 

And quite frankly, I consider such displays and threats by tea party "patriots" as a direct threat to me and *my* beliefs.

 

Que the "that's not MY tea party" response....

 

I hope the space guys are coordinating which unit of measure they are using this time .....OOPS 

 

The notion ya can sue is rather foolish on the face, the intolerance you display even more so.

 

poor thing feeling threatened 

[PCS]

I live in Lake Tahoe. We've gotten pretty much no snow the last 3 winters and this summer have had more cloudy rainy days than sunny. A summer like this is unheard of. It feels like the East coast up here, humid and hot during the day, then the clouds roll in during the afternoon for a storm in the evening. Climate Change is real. Want to fix it, stop voting all of these idiots into the senate and house. Don't cast a single ballot for any Republican or Democratic candidate. They have all had many chances and have failed us. Many times.

Right down the hill from you and it is bad. Real bad. Yes. This is the most arid state,but this is unsettling. The Carson River is literally a trickle right now. Practically standing water in many spots. 

[Mad Mike]

If you are lining up on election day to cast your ballot for Rep or Dem, you are part of the problem and shouldn't complain. You have been enabling these parties to act like fools, fight with each other, point fingers at each other and ultimately get nothing done while getting rich.

 

That's right, ignore their stance on issues. Let me guess... vote tea party.... because freedom!

After this wonderful belching of delusions of grandeur and over inflated self confidence? Will do.

Thinking you in any way shape or for can sue a politician or political party to force them to change their stance on policy is laughable and can only be conceived by one who is both immense in ego and fringe in their hyper partisanship

 

Peeping Larry - TIME

 

 

 

In tech circles, opinion on Dumpstergate is mixed. Microsoft's critics were forgiving. "While what Ellison did was distasteful, the facts that were exposed were despicable," says J. Michael Washe, founder of the websitehttp://Breakupmicrosoft.org.

 

[Mad Mike]

and that little nugget changes nothing,nor are we in a bubble

 

 

 

I hope the space guys are coordinating which unit of measure they are using this time .....OOPS 

 

The notion ya can sue is rather foolish on the face, the intolerance you display even more so.

 

poor thing feeling threatened 

 

The mindless, childish stupidity of your posts is simply astounding. You contribute nothing of any value to any intelligent conversation.

[twa]

The mindless, childish stupidity of your posts is simply astounding. You contribute nothing of any value to any intelligent conversation.

 

How would you know? 

 

Am I to presume from that you think this thread is a intelligent conversation?

[s0crates]

There is a fair point in this except that it misses something very, very basic. The reason it is called a representative form of government is because we are supposed to vote for people to represent us and stand for us. That means when we say Republicans or Democrats... usually we're not talking about every single person who votes that way, but we are referencing the elected ones who we have chosen to be our surogates. The guys who stand for us.

And that is fair. In primaries, town halls, and elections a majority of voters said... this guy best mirrors my beliefs about what I want. Therefore, if I point to the craziness of a Republican.... let's say one that has served ten terms (in other words, has been chosen as the best champion for his people's wants and needs for 20 plus years) and think that he or she is an examplar of Republicans. Well, you had ten opportunities to choose someone else and didn't. Clearly, this guy is you.

This line of reasoning would be more persuasive if many (most?) of us didn't feel like we were always choosing the lesser evil. I've never had the opportunity to vote for somebody who really represents me. The two party system is broken.

Congradulations, you discovered E.S. The Tailgate Mission Statement!!!!

I always felt like most people here were pretty conservative.

[s0crates]

This is what we deserve. Most people are single issue voters or vote for some odd reason. Personally I don't vote because I believe that it encourages the bad behavior from politicians. Me voting for the candidates lets them know that what they are doing is okay. Well its not okay. Our 2 party political system and economy are going to have to burn to the ground before things really change. Politicians use to be afraid of voters they would hold their promises. Now voters are **** on. They don't respect you only view you as tickets to power. Every person who holds office needs to be voted out everyone. People need to look for the people running that actually care. The people that are not yet bought off by major companies. Currently almost none of those people run for office. But if we start replacing all the cancers in office with people who care then more of those people might start to run. Too long have seats been passed down to groomed replacements. But I'm a realist. That will not happen people are too far programmed. Things won't change it will only get worse. A lot of bad things are going to have to happen for people to see that they are being screwed by everyone.

Go vote. Just write in "no confidence." I'm almost there myself. Edited August 2, 2014 by s0crates

[PeterMP]

and that little nugget changes nothing,nor are we in a bubble

 

It provides a mechanism by which dumpling lot's of CO2 in the atmosphere is likely to cause the climate to change.

Can you provide a mechanism by which we'd dump lot's of CO2 into the atmosphere and the climate would NOT change?

[Burgold]

This line of reasoning would be more persuasive if many (most?) of us didn't feel like we were always choosing the lesser evil. I've never had the opportunity to vote for somebody who really represents me. The two party system is broken.

I always felt like most people here were pretty conservative.

Again, that may hold true for the election, but what about the primaries or even before that. The candidate represents you. If they don't and you stay silent then you are giving them

Your stam

P of approval.

[s0crates]

One last thing for now...

I'm still waiting for someone to refute the things that I am saying.

Tell me why the Republicans, funded by oil billionaires who have pumped god knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars into the right wing to avoid any and all regulations should be trusted to ignore NASA, the military, and science itself to guide our energy policy backward.

Pretty sure those guys are pumping money into both sides. International corporations run things. It's a no win situation.

[twa]

It provides a mechanism by which dumpling lot's of CO2 in the atmosphere is likely to cause the climate to change.

Can you provide a mechanism by which we'd dump lot's of CO2 into the atmosphere and the climate would NOT change?

 

Would not change is a losing game(it always changes,perhaps to our benefit), but heat sinks and heat leaving the atmosphere in manners/degree not accounted for in most models is a start.

 

 http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25801-huge-whirlpools-in-the-ocean-are-driving-the-weather.html#.U9xTAPldXiU

 

co2 being less of a factor than some suggest is another

[s0crates]

Again, that may hold true for the election, but what about the primaries or even before that. The candidate represents you. If they don't and you stay silent then you are giving them

Your stamp of approval.

I always vote. In a close race I vote for the least terrifying prospect. In a landslide I vote for Mickey Mouse.

In primaries my guy never has a chance (e.g . Kucinich, Ron Paul). I suspect this has more to do with the media than the people.

Edited August 2, 2014 by s0crates