Taylor703 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Having gone back and watched the games again as well as looked at the advanced metrics, I would say that statement is incorrect. We signed Jason Hatcher because he destroyed our OL. Polumbus was completely embarrassed vs. San Fran. They're probably the reason Everson Griffin got a big contract. Justin Tuck got half of his sacks in one game against this OL. I get that you like PFF but this OL sucked. The excuses made for it are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 We signed Jason Hatcher because he destroyed our OL. Polumbus was completely embarrassed vs. San Fran. They're probably the reason Everson Griffin got a big contract. Justin Tuck got half of his sacks in one game against this OL. I get that you like PFF but this OL sucked. The excuses made for it are a joke. Hatcher destroyed everyone's offensive line. Griffin got a big contract because he is an athletic freak who has huge potential. Go back and watch Polumbus vs San Fran and Tuck against us, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about when I say Rg3 holding the ball created a lot of sacks. I'm not sure how you can say PFF is a joke when you're sitting here spouting stats without context.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Chester and Litch must go, I think starters will be Williams,Lauvao,Mcglynn,Long,Polumbus The other 4 to make it Gettis,Moses,Compton,Leribus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hatcher destroyed everyone's offensive line. Griffin got a big contract because he is an athletic freak who has huge potential. Go back and watch Polumbus vs San Fran and Tuck against us, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about when I say Rg3 holding the ball created a lot of sacks. I'm not sure how you can say PFF is a joke when you're sitting here spouting stats without context.. The new coach came in and immediately cut the center and signed Lauvao to a reasonably large contract. He then spent two third rounders on OL. If our OL was as great as PFF says we wouldn't be replacing anyone. Face it, the OL was a disaster. Polumbus, Chester and Kory L. are decent options for back ups but if all three are starting on your OL than you have problems. My god, the Polumbus love drives me crazy. This is as bad as the guys who would defend Stephon Heyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, the coaches are gone, and so the thought is this group of coaches will work more with him. But, you're in complete and total denial if you don't think that QB play last year adversely affected the OL..... I know you like to argue/ debate things to the nth degree: but when I said it was pointless rehashing the past I meant it. This was done to death last year, not least by yourself with me. dg, DC9 and others to the point of tedious exhaustion and I have no inclination to bore everyone by going over old ground one last time as I said to the previous poster. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 This is the same pro football focus that ranked Winston Justice as the leagues best left tackle in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 The new coach came in and immediately cut the center and signed Lauvao to a reasonably large contract. He then spent two third rounders on OL. If our OL was as great as PFF says we wouldn't be replacing anyone. Face it, the OL was a disaster. Polumbus, Chester and Kory L. are decent options for back ups but if all three are starting on your OL than you have problems. My god, the Polumbus love drives me crazy. This is as bad as the guys who would defend Stephon Heyer. Cutting the center and signing a new guard was undoubtably done in an attempt to beef up for the new, more power oriented scheme. Again, our 2 early rounders were drafting guys who either 1. Fit the scheme 2. Represented value at a position of need. You cannot replace an entire offensive line in 1 offseason, so of course you are going to have some holdover from last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Here are some advanced metric from PFF. The Pro Football Focus Time In The Pocket data lets you find out which quarterbacks are holding onto the ball the most and how it impacts performance. RGIII (2013) RGIII(2012) Andy(2013) Andy(2012) Average time to Throw...............2.97............................3.07...........................2.43...................................2.64 ^^ time from the snap to attempt or sack or scramble Average time to Attempt.............2.66............................2.70...........................2.24....................................2.40 ^^time from snap to attempt Average time to Sack..................4.43.............................4.21...........................4.22...................................4.10 Not much difference between Griffin "holding the ball too long" in 2013 vs 2012 If anything it shows Griffin held the ball LONGER in 2012 But, that's in the past different coaching staff different gameplan philosophy. Also, included are Dalton's numbers the past 2 seasons. It should stand out how much quicker Jay's offense gets the ball out: 2.66 to 2.24 That difference alone bodes well for both the OL and Griffin. The OL has less onus on them in pass protection. Griffin is a good quick rhythm passer. Stats from when Griffin throws the ball 2.5 second and under: 2013-In 266 drop backs (49% of the time) 67% comp 90 qb rating 0 sacks 2012-237 drop backs 72% comp 99.7 qb rating 5 sacks but I digress.... I have full faith that regardless of the line-up the scheme will make the OL better. BUT I will also think that Lauvao taking over at LG and bumping Kory to Center makes the OL better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 This is the same pro football focus that ranked Winston Justice as the leagues best left tackle in 2012. Justice started 12 games at RT and ranked 45th in the tackle rankings. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 This article is too perfect lmao. After you read Winston's rating scroll down to see who's the worst.... https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/17/snapshot-pbe-offensive-tackles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Justice started 12 games at RT and ranked 45th in the tackle rankings. Lol. And Kyle I think you're a damn smart guy. Pretty fun to talk football with for a young cat. My feelings about PFF have been set in stone for awhile now. No hard feelings towards you I just dislike PFF very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 This article is too perfect lmao. After you read Winston's rating scroll down to see who's the worst.... https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/17/snapshot-pbe-offensive-tackles/ It clearly said in 173 snaps, he only gave up 2 pressures. In not way does that imply he was the best tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKKI8 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 More of how I hope it plays out instead of how I think it will. LT- Trent Williams- Every year I pray that he stays healthy RG- David Lauvou- Hopefully the highly paid front office and coaching staff knows something us fans don't C- Spencer Long- An injury forces the rookie to play center and he turns out to be awesome RG- Tom Compton- Coming out of college he projected as a better G than T he just needed to add strength (wild card guess) RT- Morgan Moses- He really looks good in pre-season an starts opening day and makes the all rookie team I'm trying my best to be positive about the team. At least until the season actually starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 And Kyle I think you're a damn smart guy. Pretty fun to talk football with for a young cat. My feelings about PFF have been set in stone for awhile now. No hard feelings towards you I just dislike PFF very much. Thank you. I'm also in no way saying Polumbus or Lict are great players, I'm just saying that they will be serviceable starters if they play to the level they did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Offensive line wasn't horrible last season. The difference between 2012 and 2013 was RG3 holding the ball 2 seconds longer. Glasses would serve you well my friend. I don't disagree that at times Robert held the ball too long but more often than not he was running for his life. Just last week I went back and watched multiple games on GameRewind and Chris Chester, Montgomery, and Polumbus (in order of poor performance overall) often let rushers come free or they got blown up in the backfield. You should know this and here's how....Montgomery (2013 starting Center) is gone, OLmen were brought in via FA and drafted not just for depth but to contribute immediately within the type of scheme that Gruden wants to run. Chester doesn't fit that scheme, Montgomery obviously doesn't/didn't, and clearly Polumbus is on his way out sometime soon once Moses is groomed and ready...hopefully sooner rather than later. Don't forget that McGlynn, Lauvao, and Lichtensteiger were all starters last year and will likely be the middle of the O line in 2014 Williams McGlynn Lichtensteiger Lauvao Polumbus That would be my guess unless Moses shows really well in camp and preseason games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Thank you. I'm also in no way saying Polumbus or Lict are great players, I'm just saying that they will be serviceable starters if they play to the level they did last year. This is the type of stuff that I just don't get. We get mauled by a team like San Fran, and everyone goes...oh, well they're San Fran. They're really good. If we want to get to where we want to go, we need to have an OL that can compete and beat teams like San Fran, Seattle, etc. I'm not a superbowl or bust guy, and I certainly don't expect us to get there this season. But to do that, we need a huge upgrade on our OL, no matter how you want to slice it or what advanced metrics you wanna use. We play in a weak division. Guys like Licht and Polumbus might help us compete there. However, when it comes to the elite teams, the only thing serviceable that they will provide is helping to get our asses kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I'm surprised to see people project Leribeus as a starter. Moses beating out Polumbus would be a nice lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 As I said earlier, the mauling by San Fran was mostly Griffins fault, as he held on WAY too long. But the person who was ultimately beaten for the sacks, was Trent Williams, who struggled to block Smith for the 5 seconds Griffin needed to throw the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Having watched the game film myself, it looks as if our interior OL was abused more times than not. Griffin isn't absolved of blame, but I saw the interior of our OL get blown up, Griffin attempt to get out of the pocket and then either pressured or hit or sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Trent Lauvao McGlynn Long Moses Tyler is not going to give up that spot too easily as the 19th ranked OT last year. He improved a lot but there is a reason we drafted an OT. From the link.... Despite such a dramatic statistical leap, the veteran lineman still seems to draw the ire of most Redskins fans. As always, it’s best to examine the tape to backup statistical analysis .... Priceless..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I do remember our interior Oline getting "blown up" a lot, but I also remember it wasn't necessarily their fault. Well, at least it was tough to point the finger at any one of them. There were two types of pressure last year that I consistently saw, one was the "instant pressure" caused by teams blitzing and the other was the interior getting pushed back enough to where it moved Griffin from his spot. I remember a lot of the "instant pressure" was coming from Linebackers blitzing inside on obvious passing downs. When that happens, it's either an issue with the protection scheme, the HB isn't picking up his guy properly, or the QB isn't making the right read and getting rid of the ball quick enough. I think that's where a lot of the disconnect comes from between those who argue that our Oline wasn't that bad and those who claim they were. The Oline seemed to get blamed for both types of pressure mentioned above. With that said, it doesn't change the fact that a guy like Chester was getting owned by Tuck over and over (just one example, Montgomery got owned a lot as well), so I think it's great that Gruden placed an emphasis on getting bigger in the interior this offseason. First thing we did was bring in Lauvao, cut Montgomery and move Lich to center and tell him to bulk up. Gettis was supposedly working his butt off and Leribeus stayed in shape. Then we drafted Long and Moses, only for Gruden to talk up Long like he has a chance to start right away whereas with Moses he's more of a project. To me, that spells it out pretty much. The interior was an issue last year and they did get pushed back too often into Griffin's face. The FO made it a priority to get bigger guys who can anchor better in the interior, that way Griffin doesn't have to worry as much about escaping the pocket and bouncing outside. However, a lot of the pressure wasn't their fault, either. That still remains true in my mind. It also means that no matter who is playing within the interior, the issue of teams blitzing up the middle and getting through the A gaps so easily is still there. The hope is that Gruden's offense, a better arsenal of weapons, and Robert having an entire offseason to work on his game will be enough to make sure teams can't just send their guys up the middle against us every time it's an obvious passing down, or else they'll pay. I think that's what Alfred Morris was alluding to earlier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 As I said earlier, the mauling by San Fran was mostly Griffins fault, as he held on WAY too long. But the person who was ultimately beaten for the sacks, was Trent Williams, who struggled to block Smith for the 5 seconds Griffin needed to throw the ball As I said earlier, we keep getting our asses kicked by elite teams. I would argue that we never beat an elite team in 2012 even when we went on our end of the year tear. We won the game against the Ravens, but I would say that was more lucky than anything. But by all means, let's just keep starting serviceable guys. In a good year, compete for a wild card or maybe the division. Early exit. Rinse and repeat. While you're in the film room, you might wanna check out some tape of the 91 team. You'll see a bit of a difference in our OL play. Best team we ever had. Haven't been close since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 While you're in the film room, you might wanna check out some tape of the 91 team. You'll see a bit of a difference in our OL play. Best team we ever had. Haven't been close since. LT Jim Lachey LG Raleigh McKenzie C Jeff Bostic RG Mark Schlereth RT Joe Jacoby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 LT Jim Lachey LG Raleigh McKenzie C Jeff Bostic RG Mark Schlereth RT Joe Jacoby I've said it before and I'll say it again...Jim Lachey is the best OL in Redskins history. Other guys have gotten more accolades (Grimm)...other guys are held in higher regard (Jacoby)...and they both deserve it...BUT...Jim Lachey is the best OL to ever play for the Redskins. Carry on boys (and girls)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I've said it before and I'll say it again...Jim Lachey is the best OL in Redskins history. Other guys have gotten more accolades (Grimm)...other guys are held in higher regard (Jacoby)...and they both deserve it...BUT...Jim Lachey is the best OL to ever play for the Redskins. Carry on boys (and girls)... I think Rypien got sacked 9 times that year. YEAR! And they were not running a quick release offense, it was bombs away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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