Coach Janky Spanky Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree with some of the OP and I disagree with some, but here's a question I haven't seen answered in the last few days: Why does everyone think Morocco Brown and Scott Campbell are so great? Here's my understanding: during the Cerrato years, the word was that Cerrato didn't listen to his scouts. This is why Brown and Campbell were kept around during Shanahan -- Shanahan saw that the problem was that Cerrato hadn't listened to the scouting department's recommendations, and the problem was not the scouting department iself. So, Shanahan keeps Brown and Campbell around. And things don't go well. Sure, there are other reasons (RGIII injury, salary cap penalty, etc.). But why is everyone so sure that those guys are good? My main wish is that Allen be the VP hire a personnel guy as a GM, who hires the head coach, etc.... But it seems a lot of people feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 What makes this 2014 coaching search so much different is the absence of Dan Snyder. For the first time since Dan took ownership he isn't handpicking the head coach of the Washington Redskins. Actual football minds are conducting the process and the interviews won't include lavish sleepovers at Dan's palatial mansion. I'm very encouraged by this whole process, the Redskins are actually starting to do things like the 30 other teams (Cowboys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree with some of the OP and I disagree with some, but here's a question I haven't seen answered in the last few days: Why does everyone think Morocco Brown and Scott Campbell are so great? Here's my understanding: during the Cerrato years, the word was that Cerrato didn't listen to his scouts. This is why Brown and Campbell were kept around during Shanahan -- Shanahan saw that the problem was that Cerrato hadn't listened to the scouting department's recommendations, and the problem was not the scouting department iself. So, Shanahan keeps Brown and Campbell around. And things don't go well. Sure, there are other reasons (RGIII injury, salary cap penalty, etc.). But why is everyone so sure that those guys are good? My main wish is that Allen be the VP hire a personnel guy as a GM, who hires the head coach, etc.... But it seems a lot of people feel that way. No one is sure. But here's what we know: At least Brown has been coveted by other teams. We also know that the cap penalty stopped us from signing key free agents. We also know that the decision to draft RG3 handicapped the rest of the draft. We don't have access to their grades. I personally don't know how good they are. But here's the bottom line: Neither do you. Bruce Allen said they grade guys out very well. He has seen their grades, he has seen players in the NFL that were assigned those grades. That's really all we have to go on right now, and it's not great. But it's there. I know of a few people that are in the football world, and Morocco Brown really is a guy that is very respected among his peers. Take that for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 So, Shanahan keeps Brown and Campbell around. And things don't go well. Sure, there are other reasons (RGIII injury, salary cap penalty, etc.). But why is everyone so sure that those guys are good? I do believe Shanahan was urged (not forced) to keep Brown/Campbell by Allen. Initially Shanny wanted to bring his guys from Denver, the Goodwin brothers, to run the scouting and player personnel departments. Having said that, as Cooley pointed out, Shanny still went outside the organization for scouting/free agent advice, undermining the efforts of Brown/Campbell. Bruce Allen kept mentioning giving these two guys a legitimate shot at performing their duties and have their voice have actual real weight. Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread we've had young up and coming guys in the org that were let go to other organizations and they are know doing great (Baalke, Schneider, Decosta) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm almost convinced that you have to have something negative to say. It doesn't take Stephen Hawking to link Briles to DC. Griffin is certainly a major reason why. But, what leaks? Since this search officially began, not a word has been said about Briles through any "leak". We've discussed it, but again, is it that far fetched to see the connection? Come on, man. It's okay to admit you are unsure of the future and that you really have no idea. It's even cool to admit that you don't like Briles as a candidate. But at the end, what does either of us know? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many times do I have to be fooled? I also was beat over the head on these boards for not saying Danny had righted the ship and all was well with Bruce Allen as GM and Shanny as head coach. I was lambasted for being negative. I simply asked to see them win prior to declaring everything was fixed. We have been here and done that the last hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 When Bruce Allen said they looked at previous FA and draft grades given by MB and SC to see how they have performed since, I got the notion MS was not taking their recommendations and was getting who he wanted. It also seems they did a pretty good (not great) job dealing with that rediculous cap penalty. We were able to keep 21 of our 22 starters last year (ok, 3-13 doesn't reflect that but no one saw that coming) in spite of the penalty. I am optimistic about this current FO and do believe it can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I feel like trust went out the window a long time ago, and for some reason we dont make them earn it back. Too many fans in my opinion just give them a free pass in a way they would never give it to anyone else. Either trust is earned, or it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I feel like trust went out the window a long time ago, and for some reason we dont make them earn it back. Too many fans in my opinion just give them a free pass in a way they would never give it to anyone else. Either trust is earned, or it isnt. I don't think anyone is giving anyone a free pass. But I do think many of us are okay with seeing what happens before pissing all over the Cheerios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I don't think anyone is giving anyone a free pass. But I do think many of us are okay with seeing what happens before pissing all over the Cheerios. Like I posted, look at how the board celebrated the same process with Allen and Shanny. Rinse, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Like I posted, look at how the board celebrated the same process with Allen and Shanny. Rinse, repeat. I don't think anyone in this thread has thrown a party in regards to the current situation. I think a majority of us in this thread are cautiously optimistic. Afterall, we've all been burned. And knowing what we know now, the last head coach was hired pretty much before Allen was. That doesn't pass the smell test. This time, things seem to be going the way we've clamored for. Is that reason to celebrate? Hardly. Is it reason to allow a little bit of sunshine in our dimly lit Redskins Rooms? Yes. Give it a chance. That's all anyone is saying. Not one of us has said, "YOU MUST BE HAPPY OR YOU'RE NOT A FAN!". Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including yours. And hell. you might ultimately wind up being 100% on the money. But, that doesn't mean you have to be totally negative in regards to what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Not one of us has said, "YOU MUST BE HAPPY OR YOU'RE NOT A FAN!". Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including yours. And hell. you might ultimately wind up being 100% on the money. But, that doesn't mean you have to be totally negative in regards to what's going on. Being realistic is not being negative. When the new coach is hired I will be cheering with the best of them, be it Art Briles or Gregg Williams. I just want to know when I am allowed to be realistic, the next hire???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Being realistic is not being negative. When the new coach is hired I will be cheering with the best of them, be it Art Briles or Gregg Williams. I just want to know when I am allowed to be realistic, the next hire???? You're allowed to be negative any time you want. And for the record, I'm not using "negative" as an insult. But that's exactly what you're being. You don't have a close enough relationship with the situation to be realistic when you're assuming you know what's going on. What you're being is negative. And you're entitled to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You're allowed to be negative any time you want. And for the record, I'm not using "negative" as an insult. But that's exactly what you're being. You don't have a close enough relationship with the situation to be realistic when you're assuming you know what's going on. What you're being is negative. And you're entitled to that. Well I don't know whats going on, none of us do except what is being spoon fed to us via leaks. I am excited for what a new regime brings, as I always am with the exception of Zorn. I am also excited that this is probably the first time a new coach will come in and basically have a blank canvas (no high priced free agents, no salary cap issues, no entrenched players on the roster that are too costly to cut). For the first time under Snyder, I feel like the new coach will have the ability to immediately mold the team into their own identity and immediately rebuild for the future. I will never be excited about the process until Snyder does things the right way. Hire a real GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well I don't know whats going on, none of us do except what is being spoon fed to us via leaks. I am excited for what a new regime brings, as I always am with the exception of Zorn. I am also excited that this is probably the first time a new coach will come in and basically have a blank canvas (no high priced free agents, no salary cap issues, no entrenched players on the roster that are too costly to cut). For the first time under Snyder, I feel like the new coach will have the ability to immediately mold the team into their own identity and immediately rebuild for the future. I will never be excited about the process until Snyder does things the right way. Hire a real GM. The first paragraph was excellent. The last two sentences of your post wasn't a shining moment. You don't know if Allen is or isn't a real GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The first paragraph was excellent. The second sentence wasn't a shining moment. You don't know if Allen is or isn't a real GM. Well I saw what he did in Tampa, not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well I saw what he did in Tampa, not a fan. Did you see what Belichick did in Cleveland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Another take (based on a contention/premise open to debate) that can leave the already-muddled 'skins fan unsure: why do more than a few other teams seem to find it easier to put together staffs/FOs that just simply look better on paper from the get-go (and then look better on the field, too) in their "rebuild/turnaround" periods? (or is that a mainly false premise--see "debate") Whatever happens, if this is yet one more revamp that falls well behind what other teams accomplish in their own revamps this off-season (as seems to be the repeating case)...well, I'll just leave that thought unfinished for now... The "legit excuses" I can make for "this time around" (RG3 injury/cap penalties), valid to the extent they are, still do not leave me feeling confident about this next "new regime." I'm obliviously on this train for the long haul, but I have seen too much of the "it's always something" (no matter what the "something" is) to be anything other than "just waiting to see" until the pudding is actually proof. The future I want to see is to have a different identity than the "it's always something" team as used to explain why we suck so broadly and deeply so often for so many years, overall. Even just being consistently associated with qualities like "competent" and "tough" and "well-coached", and over-500 w/l records as a standard, would be a huge leap forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Bass Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Don't forget AJ Smith. I would say he's probably the most proven and respected talent evaluator on our staff ( respected in terms of talent evaluation.) After we suspected the front office wouldn't change, but before Bruce Allen announced himself as GM, I was hoping Bruce Allen would be elevated to "Team President" and AJ Smith would be our "football only" GM. It's actually still possible that functionally that is what we have. In other words, Allen and AJ Smith are "co-GMs", with Allen officially having all the GM accountability and the final say, but Allen runs all the player moves by AJ Smith. I think that would be the closest to having a "real football GM" that we ever had, since Ron Wolf turned us down in 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm actually extremely intrigued about how AJ Smith fits into this whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I don't want AJ Smith running anything. He seems like he has difficulty getting along with people and I have an issue with hiring and keeping Turner as your coach. In terms of Allen, I'm not excited to see him have the title of GM, but if you have people in place that can evaluate talent, then I'm not sure it is a huge issue (if we start losing top scouts, then things change). In term of the TB years, I'm not sure how much say he actually had in the decision making, and the Glassers were cheap. My impression always was that Gruden was running things. http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/26/moneyball-nfl-style/ (TB spent the least money in the NFL those years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Did you see what Belichick did in Cleveland? Yeah, did you see everyone in Cleveland? Hopefully we aren't Cleveland, but we are looking like Cleveland more than looking like the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I hope the 'Process' does not come up with another 'Holy ****, we got X' again. I am really not liking the high profile attitude that has run rampant within this organization. I get it that Dan S wants to have an organization that is flashy and sexy with big names, but there comes a point where a team needs to create its own identity without the initial 'omg' factor. And SeaBass, the only really good GM's this team has had was Bobby Beathard and Charley Casserly. If this team fails again to get this right, I fear that a mass exodus of fans will ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 strong OP, KD. A bit of woosah is necessary at a time like this. I've been rooting for Morocco to get a shot for a little while now. Who is to say that he can't get promoted next year if we turn a good class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Does anyone know who exactly is on the interview team, if any, with Allen? Just curious if anyone else is interviewing these candidates with BA. And, I don't mean the owner, but perhaps someone to offer their input and opinion on the quality of the candidate to BA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm actually extremely intrigued about how AJ Smith fits into this whole process. I don't get all of the AJ hate. He had some darn good drafts in San Diego. Other than being a bulldog with Vincent Jackson and hiring Norv, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I could be way off because I don't follow a lot of the west coast teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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