Do you think this organization has become a disgrace?

[aolforbroadband]

Let's be honest, this organization has had nothing but shortcomings since the end of the first Gibbs era. The only issue is, it's only gotten worse, and it hasn't just been about losing...

 

It's been a steady decline since 1992, which includes:

 

- Always making headlines for all the WRONG reasons..such as controversies with players and coaches.

- Missing the playoffs 17 out of the last 21 seasons.

- Making terrible free-agent acquisitions(with the exception of London Fletcher.)

- Making terrible draft choices(LaVar Arrington, Rod Gardner, Patrick Ramsey, etc.)

 

The current situation just adds to the first issue I listed. It's everywhere on any site that covers the NFL, and it's the negative attention this organization has brought upon itself for much of the last 20 years. Much of that is on Dan Snyder, but even when he tried something new and went with control freak for a coach, it completely backfired. We brought this guy in because of his past accolades, and he's done nothing but push us further into despair and potentially sabotaged the future of the organization.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Single worse organisation in proball.

Don't know how that can be argued.

Hail.

[MusicCitySkin]

We've been a disgrace for a while now.

[ncr2h]

I'm having a lot of trouble seeing what's disgraceful about putting the 2013 version of RG3 out of his misery.  He has looked awful for large portions of this season, and his ceiling this season has been merely good instead of dominant like he was last year.  And he hasn't looked "good" for more than 2 or 3 drives in a long time.

 

Let's see if putting Cousins in makes a difference.  Because if he does, then maybe we don't have to upgrade our entire OL, coaching staff, WR corps, etc.  Maybe it's just one guy who needs to make quicker decisions with the ball.  But, hey, maybe it's not.  And if so, now we know for sure.

[LetThePointsSoar]

I'm just not ready to mail it in on the Shanahan era yet. I realize I'm virtually alone on this viewpoint, but I'm not ready to pile in on him. I think we will see a massive difference in the offense with Kirk because he gets the ball out quicker right now. That tiny change can make a UNIVERSE of difference on the field.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm just not ready to mail it in on the Shanahan era yet. I realize I'm virtually alone on this viewpoint, but I'm not ready to pile in on him. I think we will see a massive difference in the offense with Kirk because he gets the ball out quicker right now. That tiny change can make a UNIVERSE of difference on the field.

 

Hard for Kirk to not only overcome a historically bad ST and defense, but a football team that's quit on it's coaching staff no matter how good he may play. 

 

Hail. 

[Burgold]

2012 was not a disgrace.  The Gibbs years were not a disgrace.  Even Zorn was just bad versus a disgrace.  However, what is happening now is disgraceful.  Our special teams is would insult a high school coach.  Our defense wouldn't be acceptible to a pee wee team.  And the way, the leaks are happening and Shanny is acting are horrible.  He deserves to be rapped across the knuckles with a ruler.

[Commander PK]

I am very grateful for all the charity work the Redskins do in the community, nothing about the organization is a disgrace on that end.

 

When it comes to the Football side of things...YES.  Disgraceful

[hail2skins]

Even Zorn was just bad versus a disgrace. 

No, it was disgraceful how Zorn got emasculated in mid-season.  Also disgraceful was how the Redskins, at least for one game, decided to ban signs that were critical of ownership and claim that it was done "so as not to block people's view of the game"....on the same night that the Redskins themselves gave away signs at the gate!!!!

 

At least the Skins under Zorn (and, for that matter, Spurrier) seemed to fight until almost the end, in Zorn's case until Vinny got canned and everyone knew regime change was coming.  The 2013 Redskins have flatlined since Minnesota.

 

And for those who are hoping for Shanahan to possibly return.......you might have to realize there's a good chance that scenario would not include RG3 as a Redskin.

[LetThePointsSoar]

 

And for those who are hoping for Shanahan to possibly return.......you might have to realize there's a good chance that scenario would not include RG3 as a Redskin.

I agree with this statement, and to be honest, I'm torn. But if that is what is best for the football team, at the end of the day, I'm ok with it. At this point,I don't think any of us have the answers.

[MattFancy]

Don't know if it's a disgrace, but it is certainly embarrassing right now. I don't think I've ever been this mad as a Skins fan.

[Forehead]

*WARNING - THREAD DERAIL!*

 

I think some organizations have it worse from a recent history/competitive standpoint, teams like the Jaguars, the Pirates until last season in MLB, the Clippers historically, but it's been a lean set of years, I'll give you that.

 

Now the point where I accidentally derail the thread.  I'd argue, from your OP, that Lavar Arrington was not a bad draft choice.  Sure, pretty much no one on this board likes him because of his run-ins with Joe Gibbs, his freelancing, the contract fiasco, his ****-stirring radio show, and the way he's bad mouthed the organization.  But let's face facts.

 

Arrington played six seasons for the team, and had 400 tackles, 22 sacks, 4 INT's, 10 forced fumbles, and a pair of defensive touchdowns.  He made the pro-bowl three times, which doesn't mean much to me, but he also made All-Pro three times, which is a much more impressive achievement.  One of those six seasons he didn't play much, and his career was cut short, but you figure that a highly regarded player can maybe carve out a career twice as long on average, so you double everything to get an approximation of what he might have become. 

 

Even looking at what he did for us in six years, let's look at a bunch of other #2 overall picks:

 

1995: Tony Boselli - A great lineman who had a career cut short.  In seven seasons, he made five pro bowls and was 3x All-Pro, also made the 1990's decades team.  I'd take seven seasons of Boselli over six of Arrington.

 

1996: Kevin Hardy - This is kind of a wash.  Hardy made 1x Pro Bowl, 1x All Pro, tackles were 700+, played three seasons longer than Arrington.  Had about the same number of sacks, fewer forced fumbles, but five defensive touchdowns.  Consistent impact plays clearly favor Arrington, Kevin Hardy was solid but never scared anyone.  Would you rather have six seasons of Arrington or nine season of Kevin Hardy?  Coin flip for me.

 

1997: Darrell Russell - Great start to his career, then the drugs and the auto accident.  You have to take Arrington here.

 

1998: Ryan Leaf - I'll take Arrington here, thanks.

 

1999: Donovan McNabb - Very good QB with a penchant for choking at the worst times, but no argument that his career was far better than Arrington's.

 

2000: Arrington - 3x All Pro, 3 Pro Bowls, 400+ tackles, 23.5 sacks, 10 FF, 3 INT's, 2 TD, 38 passes defended.

 

2001: Leonard Davis - 1x All Pro, 3 Pro Bowls, played on four different teams, shuttled positions.  He had up and down years, one or two outstanding, also heavily penalized, stole some of the Cowboys money.  Would you have rather have Arrington at LB or Davis at LG/LT?

 

2002: Julius Peppers - I don't think an argument needs to be made here, I'd rather have had Peppers.

 

2003: Charles Rogers - No question here the other way, I'd rather have Arrington.

 

2004: Robert Gallery - Total washout.  Highly paid and had to be moved to the interior to compensate.  Arrington please.

 

2005: Ronnie Brown - I'm torn on this one.  Ronnie Brown has had a pretty pedestrian career for a running back, just over 5,000 yards and 38 TD's.  He has also had almost 2,000 receiving yards and another 2 TD's.  Did Ronnie Brown ever scare you?  I feel like his production at it's peak would have been much easier to replace than Arrington's.  I lean Lavar here.

 

2006: Reggie Bush - Another RB who has never really lived up to his potential.  Before his resurgence with the Lions, I would have probably leaned Arrington, but because he has suddenly become a weapon in Detroit's spread offense, he's salvaged his career.  Stats to date are a combined 8,200 yards and 49 TD's.  Probably has a few good years left, so he wins on longevity as well.  Arrington probably slots between Bush and Brown comparing across positions.

 

2007: Calvin Johnson - No arguments here.

 

2008: Chris Long - Long is finishing his 6th season and has 210 career tackles, 48.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles.  It's an interesting comparison.  Long has many more sacks which is to be expected given the position, while Arrington has more tackles.  Arrington has far more impact plays as far as forced fumbles, interceptions, and the TD's, of which Long has none.  Interestingly enough, as long as Wikipedia is accurate, despite making the All-Rookie team in 2008, Long has never made a single Pro Bowl or All-Pro team.  He is elevated in many people's eyes because he is Howie Long's son, but Arrington's career was better over the first six seasons.  Long will eventually win assuming he continues to play and gets more stats, longevity, etc.

 

2009: Jason Smith - Total bust.  Is on his 4th team in 6 years and has never lived up to his potential.  Arrington win.

 

2010: Ndamukong Suh - You would expect, based on stats and projections, that Suh will be a better long term pick.  Already has 2 pro bowls and All-Pro teams in his short career.  So long as he doesn't wind up suspended for entire seasons or thrown out of the league, he'll wind up being better.

 

At this point, you're getting into players who haven't been in the league long enough to make a real determination of how they stack up.  The next three #2 overall picks were Von Miller, RG3, and Luke Joeckel.  Based strictly on law of averages, at least one of these three guys is going to wind up busting tremendously.  Right now, I'd bet on Joeckel, based on my reading that there are questions as to whether he's tough enough for the NFL.  Von Miller is on his way to a great career provided he doesn't have another positive drug test and miss an entire season.  RG3...well, we all know him intimately.  Does he regain the magic of his rookie season or is he forever mentally scarred by injury/poor coaching.  Who the hell knows at this point.

 

So overall, from 1995 - 2010, you have Arrington in 2000.  Of the other 15 guys drafted at #2, I would clearly rather have had six of them over Arrington.  I would rather have had what we got from Lavar over seven others.  The last two (Kevin Hardy and Chris Long) are total coin flips, though I believe Long will move into the first category with another good season or two.

 

Point is, Arrington is right in the middle of what you can expect out of a #2 draft pick, neither boom nor bust.  Our extreme dislike for him colors our view of his contributions on the field, which isn't really fair.

[MontanaSkins]

Where I think our Redskins have become a disgrace is how they stay in the news cycle in the middle of a miserable season. They are a bad team and I won't list the reasons why because they have been disscussd enough on this board. But lets quietly let this dreadful season come to an end and try again next year.

[Burgold]

No, it was disgraceful how Zorn got emasculated in mid-season.  Also disgraceful was how the Redskins, at least for one game, decided to ban signs that were critical of ownership and claim that it was done "so as not to block people's view of the game"....on the same night that the Redskins themselves gave away signs at the gate!!!!

 

At least the Skins under Zorn (and, for that matter, Spurrier) seemed to fight until almost the end, in Zorn's case until Vinny got canned and everyone knew regime change was coming.  The 2013 Redskins have flatlined since Minnesota.

 

And for those who are hoping for Shanahan to possibly return.......you might have to realize there's a good chance that scenario would not include RG3 as a Redskin.

Largely fair.  I have selective amnesia it seems.  With this team it's a quality that's really helpful.

[Mursilis]

Single worse organisation in proball.

Don't know how that can be argued.

 

Ask a Buffalo or Cleveland fan? 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Ask a Buffalo or Cleveland fan? 

 

Equally as bad but without the VERY public drama. 

 

They don't realise how good they have it. 

 

Hail. 

[bobbi3stix]

It's a reflection of its fanbase.

[LD0506]

Equally as bad but without the VERY public drama. 

 

They don't realise how good they have it. 

 

Hail. 

 

IMO that right there is the biggest difference/problem, I hatehatehate soap opera BS and didn't expect to be choking down so much of it from my *@%(*&$#^ football team!

[Prototype]

Sometimes, I wish we could just suck in silence like Jacksonville...

[HogNose]

Ask a Buffalo or Cleveland fan? 

Buffalo worse the Redskins organization? Hell no!   They may not win much these days but they have one hell of an owner and drama doesn't engulf Orchard Park on a yearly basis. 

[MattFancy]

Equally as bad but without the VERY public drama. 

 

They don't realise how good they have it. 

 

Hail. 

 

That's my main issue. Just because we're 3-10 doesn't mean we need all the drama. Now is that the team or because we're in a bigger media market than Cleveland or Jacksonville? I don't know. But teams can be bad without all the drama

[UK Skins]

At our Christmas Party last night I was introduced to someone by a friend of mine as "a Redskins fan". He laughed. Never happened before. First time I have ever been embarrassed to be a Fan. So sadly I'm voting "yes".

[Wingsuit]

I guess its a matter of semantics, but I voted no.

 

Penn State with Sandusky was a disgrace. Aaron Hernandez is a disgrace. Some of those Cowboys and Bengal teams with players getting arrested every other weekend were a disgrace. The Redskins are just a ****ty circus.

 

I think to be a true disgrace you have to do more than just suck at football.

 

Then again, a large segment of the population would say we are a disgrace based on our team name alone....I dunno....I still vote no. Embarrassment yes. Disgrace no.

[markmills67]

I think that after Shanawasteoftime is sacked the next HC of the Washington Redskins will be the most important decision ever made by this franchise. Snyder needs to realize that we need a GM first and foremost and that the GM and only the GM chooses the next HC. And on another very important note we Must remain as the Washington REDSKINS.

[Mursilis]

Equally as bad but without the VERY public drama. 

 

They don't realise how good they have it. 

 

Hail. 

 

To be honest, the drama doesn't bother me that much.  I mean, sure, it's terrible, because it's due to, and in part the cause of, the lack of winning, but it's not boring.  Buffalo and Cleveland are just awful in a sad, boring kind of way.  They're pretty much expected to be somewhere between mediocre and bad, and they usually are - yawn.  Of course, I'd prefer the Redskins to be drama-free and successful, with the biggest question facing this team being who they're going to face in the playoffs, but that's not going to happen, at least this year.  At least if the season's going to be a disaster, it might as well be epic!