Examining Shanahan's Failures In Personnel Acquisition - A Brief Overview:

[steve09ru]

Most of the moves in the OP is the perfect answer to those that scream 'SALARY CAP B/S' 

 

Hail. 

No it doesn't.  There are a number of FA's that could have made an impact to fill OL, WR, CB, S.  The reason we had to go some of the routes we did was because of the salary cap restrictions.

 

What moves would you have made for the cheap?

Talib?  we tried

Veteran Safeties? tried those too but were limited on what was available due to...that's right salary cap issue

Resigned Alexander?  tried but salary cap restrictions

How about Vincent Jac....nevermind, we didn't have the cap room for him

Or Carl Ni...sorry him either

Oh yeah, Barry Chur...oh wait..

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. 

 

Why don't you give him a full off season to fill holes with a full cap before calling for the hanging. 

 

We can also look at the moves he did make:  well you can really just take a look at the whole roster and no more than a couple were here pre-Shanny.

 

Do you honestly think the Salary Cap penalties have played no part in some of the holes that are still in the lineup?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Not sure where you infer I think the cap B/S plays no part on the current team steve.

 

But a lot of those moves, particularly the ones for picks, and subsequent drafts thereafter, could of been far better handled in terms of roster building. It's gotten WAY too easy an excuse for some to scream about the cap penalty at the expense of both bad moves we have made aside from that and terrible coaching and preparation of the players we have had at our disposal. The cap penalty hasn't been in force for the past 4 years. 

 

And no, I wouldn't want him to have a full off season to dig into the cap space unless he's guaranteed to be here beyond next season. Why would you want to tie all that money and talent up with guys the new GM and Coach may well not want if we went down that road?

 

O-line for one I HIGHLY doubt he touches in FA. It's just not his MO. Trent Williams is about as big a splash as your ever gona' get from Shanahan in that regard. He's had opportunity's to address that higher up in the draft and passed even through the cap restrictions. Nobody is telling me we couldn't of found a better RT than Tyler fricking Polombus even with the restrictions. What makes anyone think he'd suddenly change a career line tact now?

 

Hail. 

[Dirt]

The timing of ES is interesting:

 

We pretty much knew we were going to lose to the Broncos, but we lost just badly enough to decide Shannahan is a failure and needs fired. 

 

Ok.

 

Honestly, what does Albert ****ing Haynesworth have to do with the game yesterday lol...  Let the past be the past.  Let this young QB grow.

[Redskins Diehard]

The timing of ES is interesting:

 

We pretty much knew we were going to lose to the Broncos, but we lost just badly enough to decide Shannahan is a failure and needs fired. 

 

Ok.

 

Honestly, what does Albert ****ing Haynesworth have to do with the game yesterday lol...  Let the past be the past.  Let this young QB grow.

Actually they decided that after the Cowboys game also. Just weren't as vocal last week. 

 

I love the notion that we could have traded Haynesworth, Cooley, and Andre Carter for a bunch of picks with no salary cap ramifications whatsoever. 

[steve09ru]

Not sure where you infer I think the cap B/S plays no part on the current team steve.

 

But a lot of those moves, particularly the ones for picks, and subsequent drafts thereafter, could of been far better handled in terms of roster building.

Hail. 

I agree on the McNabb one but the others mentions of players are not accurate.

 

 

Haynesworth, no way he was getting traded with that contract on attitude for more than what we got.

Cooley was only 27-28 years old.  He had no trade value after his injury.  He'd still be a productive TE for us if it wasn't for the post 2010 injuries.

Andre Carter had a no trade clause so couldn't have done anything there.

Campbell, we were lucky to get anything for.

Even salvaged a 6th (which turned out to be Alfred) for McNabb.

The old backs were brought in (Parker & Johnson to split with Portis) - Johnson was cut a week or 2 into the season and Keiland Williams, who was an undrafted free agent that year, ended up getting the 2nd running back spot so the part about Shanahan not grooming young backs is false in that aspect.  Then in 2011 you had Royster and Helu who were drafted.

And then for Jamaal Brown, sure it was a risky trade but one that didn't hurt too much - low risk/high reward.  Brown was a solid RT who had hip injury 1 year (28 years old, experienced) and was able to get him for a 4th.  Unfortunately, the hip injury was a lingering one or else he'd still be our RT and that would not currently be a hole on the line.

 

There's no way we can trade the players that were on the roster when Shanny got here due to the contracts they received from Vinny.

 

As for the Oline FA's not being his MO.  3/5ths of the current oline was acquired via FA (Monty and Trent are the only ones drafted).  Not to mention his target of affordable free agents in the off-season to compete for the RT spot.

 

Then for the drafts we've been able to get a franchise LT, franchise ROLB, Fletchers replacement, another ILB in Robinson, a young CB that is looks to have a promising future, a few young CB's & Safeties that are getting a lot of work in that may/may not pan out.  A DE in Jarvis Jenkins, a OLB in Brandon Jenkins.

 

A potential #2 in Hankerson, a franchise QB in RG3, a franchise RB in Morris, a franchise TE in Reed.  And a couple work in progress o-linemen

[RG3Hunna]

I hope Shanahan leaves so I can watch ES meltdown and say "I told you so" when we get a new coach who is terrible. 

 

Redskin fans solution for everything = cut and fire everybody

 

This is what Daniel "The Redskins fan" Snyder has been doing with this franchise since 1999 and we've been a laughing stock because of it, finally Shanahan comes around and brings some respect to the franchise and we want to fire him because we aren't winning games even though every sane fan realize we were going to take a step back this year and be 7-9. lol 

[cphil006]

It really takes a strong GM-coach team. For years we lacked that with Vinny. I mean, could you imagine if we had a GM who gave Gibbs Kurt Warner instead of Brunell, or a free agent Stephen Jackson instead of trading our best CB and a 2nd for Portis?

This offseason will say a lot, we will have room to add an elite DB and maybe another DL/LB

[darrelgreenie]

If you were going to change something up while still retaining Shanahan, I'd do the opposite. Allow him to slide up to the front office and hire a new coaching staff.

 

I'm slowly coming around to preferring a complete change though...keep Allen as the organization's figurehead, hire or promote a personnel guy, and hire a new coach.

But wouldn't that be a promotion through failure? Hey you're not get it done as GM/HC so we're going allow you to direct our personnel dept?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... even though every sane fan realize we were going to take a step back this year and be 7-9. lol 

 

7 wins huh? 

 

Who said the drugs don't work? 

 

Hail. 

[darrelgreenie]

I hope Shanahan leaves so I can watch ES meltdown and say "I told you so" when we get a new coach who is terrible. 

 

Redskin fans solution for everything = cut and fire everybody

 

This is what Daniel "The Redskins fan" Snyder has been doing with this franchise since 1999 and we've been a laughing stock because of it, finally Shanahan comes around and brings some respect to the franchise and we want to fire him because we aren't winning games even though every sane fan realize we were going to take a step back this year and be 7-9. lol 

Under what circumstance would you consider not bringing Mike back?

[steve09ru]

Under what circumstance would you consider not bringing Mike back?

After next year, I think he deserves to have 1 season with a healthy franchise QB and a full off-season with the same amount of money to spend as other teams.

[RG3Hunna]

Under what circumstance would you consider not bringing Mike back?

If he fails next year then I wouldn't bring him back period. I think it would be absolutely moronic to terminate Shanahan in year 4, now if he has this same type of year in year 5 he needs to go. But I personally believe he is the right man for the job and i'm willing to give him 5 years and be patient.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

For the record, there was plenty of trade talk around Haynesworth and multiple teams making offers:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/23/1386890/2010-nfl-draft-rumors-reports-trades

 

There were many reasons to trade him. It was, frankly, stupid not to. Even if you get nothing for him, you get him off the cap and don't have to worry about whether your game of chicken with the NFL over our cap shenanigans was going to work.

[PeterMP]

You could have done a lot of things in retrospect but getting the Grossman experiment over a year earlier since 2011 wasn't the year to draft a quarterback.  Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder were the first round qbs. 

 

So we essentially missed out on Nate Allen(that was the second round pick) and Luke Stocker and ended up with Alfred Morris and Keenan Robinson.

 

Yeah, and Kapernick and Dalton went in the 2nd round.

 

Maybe with the McNabb 2nd round pick (whoever they would have actually drafted) and the knowledge that Grossman/Back aren't going to cut it, they decide it is worth it to trade up and get Dalton or Kapernick.

 

Realistically, who knows how things work out if we don't get McNabb.

 

And for people saying we couldn't have traded Haynesworth earlier, there was plenty of reports on it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5542035

[darrelgreenie]

If he fails next year then I wouldn't bring him back period. I think it would be absolutely moronic to terminate Shanahan in year 4, now if he has this same type of year in year 5 he needs to go. But I personally believe he is the right man for the job and i'm willing to give him 5 years and be patient.  

But if he fails this year its okay? Why does another season make the difference between being 'moronic' and 'wouldn't bring him back period'? If he's the right man for the job where are the results?

[SJValleySkinz]

I've often wondered if we make the same trade if the cap penalty was known at the time of the trade.  I'm not convinced that the the perceived available cap room did not play into the decision to trade picks and move up.  It's definitely challenging to improve your team without picks OR cap space. 

The number of picks the McNabb situation cost and retrieved was the same....2.  What changed was giving up a 2nd rounder for a 6th rounder. 

 

In that case let's trade all our 2s, 3s and 4s for 2nd rounders because they're exactly the same. Those picks were far more valuable than the ones we got back.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

After next year, I think he deserves to have 1 season with a healthy franchise QB and a full off-season with the same amount of money to spend as other teams.

 

 

If he fails next year then I wouldn't bring him back period. I think it would be absolutely moronic to terminate Shanahan in year 4, now if he has this same type of year in year 5 he needs to go. But I personally believe he is the right man for the job and i'm willing to give him 5 years and be patient.  

 

If we carry on down the road we are this year and end up with a double digit losing season (and there's little to no indication to suggest we won't); that will make three out of four years he'll of had double digit losing seasons. Which would of been 4 for 4 bar a miracle late run-in last year which is becoming more and more apparent with each passing week was a complete anomaly to the norm.  

 

How many other coaches would get a 5th year off the back of that abysmal record regardless of circumstance. Perceived or not?

 

I need to do a study on that for every team, but I'm betting it's a REAL low percentage through history. Certainly in the modern NFL. 

 

Why do I strongly suspect if his name wasn't Shanahan and he didn't have a couple of Lombardi's in the bag most people backing him would be screaming for his head by now? 

 

Like if he was named Zorn for instance. Who's teams were MORE than comparable in on field production. As putrid as that episode was. 

 

I honestly don't get the reasoning for a 5th year if things continue as they are. 

 

Hail. 

[SJValleySkinz]

Definitely not a great deal.  But you swap from a 2nd to a 6th to take a shot on a solution at QB?  There wasn't one on the roster.  But if you want to criticize the decision just criticize using accurate facts.   

 

It's also an accurate fact that this roster needed to be blown up in 2010. Yet another accurate fact is when you rebuild in the NFL draft picks are your most precious commodity. This is NFL 101 not "hindsight."

[steve09ru]

GHH, I understand where you're coming from but the difference between then and now is great. We now have a lot of franchise players as I mentioned above that are in years 1-4. If Zorn took us and did a complete rebuild and had just had his rookie qb lead them to a division title and then struggle after suffering a major knee injury then I would give him a pass as well. We've seen what this team can do when they are clicking and that starts with the qb on the field. It's not like that ran was a bunch of close games, they were games in which we were up by double digits in almost all. Mike deserves a 2nd year with his franchise qb, this year excluded

[Redskins Diehard]

oh, the two Jason's reported trade rumors...well that must be true!

It's also an accurate fact that this roster needed to be blown up in 2010. Yet another accurate fact is when you rebuild in the NFL draft picks are your most precious commodity. This is NFL 101 not "hindsight."

and they have accumulated a ton of them as has been pointed out by others.  In fact in the egregious McNabb trade where they gave up that most precious of all commodities.  They gave up the 104th pick in a draft and had to wait until the 105th to take Roy Helu

the roster basically was blown up. but in the nfl you have to have a team each year. and you can't just cut people with ridiculous contracts.

In that case let's trade all our 2s, 3s and 4s for 2nd rounders because they're exactly the same. Those picks were far more valuable than the ones we got back.

That's brilliant dude. Good call!

[SJValleySkinz]

oh, the two Jason's reported trade rumors...well that must be true!

and they have accumulated a ton of them as has been pointed out by others.  In fact in the egregious McNabb trade where they gave up that most precious of all commodities.  They gave up the 104th pick in a draft and had to wait until the 105th to take Roy Helu

the roster basically was blown up. but in the nfl you have to have a team each year. and you can't just cut people with ridiculous contracts.

That's brilliant dude. Good call!

 

First of all I didn't say a word about who to release and who to keep. All I was talking about were the draft picks.

 

For McNabb and Brown they gave away a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick. I don't give a rat's behind what happened after that. You're wasting your time playing draft pick jenga and it's completely meaningless. What matters is AT THAT TIME, in 2010 facing a roster that needed to be blown up and rebuilt they traded away the best tool at their disposal for rebuilding.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

But wouldn't that be a promotion through failure? Hey you're not get it done as GM/HC so we're going allow you to direct our personnel dept?

I'm not advocating that he stay as GM. I just think he's done a better job acquiring players than he has coaching them. So, if he were to stick around to do just one, I'd prefer personnel.

[NoCalMike]

What I don't get is how this franchise sucks at drafting WRs.  Their judgement just seems to be so off at who will succeed at the NFL level.

 

Hankerson is in year 3 and most times barely makes a blip on the radar during games. 

 

Compare this to guys like Morris & Reed.  There was no "wow, can't to see what they will look like in their 3rd year in this offense" with them.  They were drafted, came in immediately and have been studs since Day 1.

 

Is the WR position that hard to scout that we keep ending up with busts or guys who belong as #4 slot WRs, playing #2 & #3 for this team?

 

I just don't understand.

[chipwhich]

When Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen took over, this board heralded and ran to the mountaintops and let everyone know that the two of them turned this franchise around.

 

I simply asked to see a couple of winning seasons in a row before we declare anyone king.  Still waiting....

 

If we keep Mike one more year, he gets the joy of a ton of cap room and with all of our free agents yet ANOTHER rebuild.

Question is, do you want Mike and Bruce doing the rebuild.

 

I guess I will hang my hat on Mike for another year, I am tired of yet another coach to get excited about only to be the same 4 years from now.

[Redskins Diehard]

First of all I didn't say a word about who to release and who to keep. All I was talking about were the draft picks.

For McNabb and Brown they gave away a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick. I don't give a rat's behind what happened after that. You're wasting your time playing draft pick jenga and it's completely meaningless. What matters is AT THAT TIME, in 2010 facing a roster that needed to be blown up and rebuilt they traded away the best tool at their disposal for rebuilding.

of course you don't homey...you're playing nfl 101. focusing on individual moves...the ones you disagree with...instead of the big picture. you learn that in nfl 202.