Examining Shanahan's Failures In Personnel Acquisition - A Brief Overview:

[justice98]

After next year, I think he deserves to have 1 season with a healthy franchise QB and a full off-season with the same amount of money to spend as other teams.

 

I don't know what the right answer is, but he's not some innocent bystander that got a raw deal with those two events.  They're inarguably, IMO, two circumstances he helped contribute to as the head coach and GM.  As such, I don't know if "deserves" is appropriate.  He doesn't deserve anything other than being judged on his record (which includes the state of his QB and the cap debacle).  But his record being not just the W-L, but the totality of the entire situation and state of the franchise.  

[SJValleySkinz]

It's common knowledge that 2nd, 3rd, and to a lesser 4th round picks are the most effective tools teams that know how to draft have for building the middle to upper middle (sometimes even higher than that) tier of their roster. For Redskins Diehard AKA Bill Walsh, this part of the roster if put together correctly is what gets you long term, consistent success (argue these two points all you want if you don't know this to be a fact, do some research, because it is) because in these rounds teams have the best odds of finding above average+ starters for the least amount of money. I took the 8 current division leaders, plus some teams that have been consistently successfull recently, (Texans, Broncos, 49ers, Giants, Ravens, Falcons) and found that players from the rounds in question drafted by these teams make up 25% of their starters. Go back to 2010, when we desperately needed cheap, young and talented players, the type of players we have successfully found when we had those picks available, and tell me those wasted picks wouldn't have made a difference in the future. You embarrass yourself by calling me a kid homie I've forgotten more about football and the NFL than you'll know in your life.

[steve09ru]

If a GM/coach cannot construct an offensive line in 4 years, I think its fair to assume they will not be able to going forward.

 

Maybe Dan needs to hire a bingo caller consultant to tell them how to build an OL.  Quite frankly, nothing I have seen makes me think more cap room will change his approach to line construction.

 

It's off the radar, free agents, LeReaches or late round guys that he prefers. His big pickup in FA, Chester, was nothing more than a projected backup in Baltimore. That's a sweet deal he got.

 

Since the HC and OC cannot get on the same page in year 4 on how to use said OL to their strengths, I am not optimistic about positive changes, without one or both moving on.

 

We all know Mike wants to run behind a mobile line he builds himself. We all know Kyle wants to pass. All the defenses know this, too. Tis a rare thing to fool a team in our passing game anymore. Everything deep is double covered.

 

All the cap room in the world can't mold those 2 different visions into 1.

 

You don't become a top (1-2) running team in yards/attempt or a top 10 total offense in terms of yards and points with a bad oline.

[skinny21]

Haven't noticed the full list posted, so here you go

Drafts

1- Williams

2- McNabb*

3- Jarmon*

4- Riley

5- Carriker**

6- Morris (Dennis)

7- Austin

7- Cook

7- Capers

1- Kerrigan

2- Jenkins

3- Hankerson

4- Helu

5- Gomes

5- Paul

6- Royster

6- A. Robinson

7- Thompson

7- White

7- Hurt

7- Nield

1- Griffin

2- (Griffin)*

3- LeRibeus

4- Cousins

4- K. Robinson

5- Gettis

6- Morris

6- Compton

7- Crawford

7- Bernstine

1. (Griffin)*

2. Amerson

3. Reed

4. Thomas

5. Thompson

5. Jenkins

6. Rambo

7. Jamison

I somehow missed including the Brown trade but I'm too lazy to look into it ATM.

* Indicates trade, obviously

** With Carriker, we swapped 5th round picks with the Rams, though I believe we then traded down? Overall a net gain there and it would have probably been a steal but for the injury/setback.

All things considered, I think they've done a fine job in the draft. Serious injuries (K. Robinson, Helu, Thomas, Bernstein, Crawford, J. Jenkins, Hankerson, Hurt and Nield - great googly moogly that seems like a lot!) have been a big problem and make it harder to judge. Trading away picks has certainly hurt, though I can understand the effort to try and get a good QB and LT.

[RandyHolt]

You don't become a top (1-2) running team in yards/attempt or a top 10 total offense in terms of yards and points with a bad oline.

 

You will not be a top team forever, when you think that teams will buy into play action indefinitely.

 

Eventually, be it in early blowouts, or late in games needing a few scores, an OC simply needs to pass the ball. Everyone knows they need to, and everyone knows they will.

 

That is where all those great running stats and the great yd/attempt stats go out the window. That is where we are dead in the water.

 

We are one dimensional; not built to come from behind and not built to straight up pass the ball. You can only deceive a defense into thinking you are running so many times. It's that simple. It is an inherit flaw in the construction of the OL when preaching pocket passing as a priority.

 

The problem is compounded infinitely if the OC does not remain one dimensional in his creating of game plans. Kyle is all over the board; very dynamic and he largely wants to pass, we all know this. He has to go out of his way to get Al carries. His philosophy is not a good fit for Dad's great A1 run blocking OL.

 

The one that can't push for 1 yard, but still, is a great great run blocking OL.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Dude, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Carriker had just completed 2 full seasons when he signed his extension.  Davis was a cheap, good signing to bring back to prove considering his play making ability and recent successes before injury.  Morgan was the cheapest we could have gotten at receiver and did not have a bad year last year at all.  He we one of the only guys you could count on going over the middle and holding on to the ball, not to mention the impact he's made at a blocker.  He has also been pretty good on Special Teams.

 

These moves were made before Talib was even a FA.  Winston signed with the Chiefs within 5 days of being released and their were multiple reports of them being interested in bringing him in.  They did not pursue him after the Chiefs cut him 1 year later.  Cut Bowen?  That would have been a 4.5M cap hit plus he's been a solid DE.  Who do we replace him with?  Jenkins was suspended and Golston should not be a starter. 

 

Carriker maybe, though his 6 sacks overstated his production. Morgan has been little more than a glorified #3 WR who has shown very little production. A good franchise can find similar production in the draft. And lol @ morgan being good on teams. And again, because of poor drafting and decisions, we felt compelled to overpay veteran players instead of having cheap replacements on the roster. And with more money/picks, we could have outbid the Patriots for Talib and the Chiefs for Winston.

 

Again, this is Vinny-esque teambuilding - because of his ineptitude in the draft, Shanahan has had to chase expensive free agents to fill holes, but this time the fans are justifying it. He's better at drafting sure but he's not "good".

[skinny21]

It's common knowledge that 2nd, 3rd, and to a lesser 4th round picks are the most effective tools teams that know how to draft have for building the middle to upper middle (sometimes even higher than that) tier of their roster. For Redskins Diehard AKA Bill Walsh, this part of the roster if put together correctly is what gets you long term, consistent success (argue these two points all you want if you don't know this to be a fact, do some research, because it is) because in these rounds teams have the best odds of finding above average+ starters for the least amount of money. I took the 8 current division leaders, plus some teams that have been consistently successfull recently, (Texans, Broncos, 49ers, Giants, Ravens, Falcons) and found that players from the rounds in question drafted by these teams make up 25% of their starters. Go back to 2010, when we desperately needed cheap, young and talented players, the type of players we have successfully found when we had those picks available, and tell me those wasted picks wouldn't have made a difference in the future. You embarrass yourself by calling me a kid homie I've forgotten more about football and the NFL than you'll know in your life.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? Looking at the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks from the 'skins I suppose you can critique them in hindsight, but I don't really see any glaring problem here. Tell me what I'm missing?

[SJValleySkinz]

Carriker maybe, though his 6 sacks overstated his production. Morgan has been little more than a glorified #3 WR who has shown very little production. A good franchise can find similar production in the draft. And lol @ morgan being good on teams. And again, because of poor drafting and decisions, we felt compelled to overpay veteran players instead of having cheap replacements on the roster. And with more money/picks, we could have outbid the Patriots for Talib and the Chiefs for Winston.

 

Again, this is Vinny-esque teambuilding - because of his ineptitude in the draft, Shanahan has had to chase expensive free agents to fill holes, but this time the fans are justifying it. He's better at drafting sure but he's not "good".

 

I think he would have landed at worst one starter with the picks he gave away. I still go back to 2011 and remember (not sure which game) how much better we played when the season effectively over and the younger draftees got on the field, which trickled over to 2012. God himself couldn't convince me we'd be in a better position right now if Shanny took that approach the second he walked in the door.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here? Looking at the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks from the 'skins I suppose you can critique them in hindsight, but I don't really see any glaring problem here. Tell me what I'm missing?

 

I have absolutely no problem at all with how we have drafted since Shanny got here. It's the fact that those valuable commodity picks were given away in 2010 that bothers me precisely because I like how they've drafted.

[steve09ru]

You will not be a top team forever, when you think that teams will buy into play action indefinitely.

 

Eventually, be it in early blowouts, or late in games needing a few scores, an OC simply needs to pass the ball. Everyone knows they need to, and everyone knows they will.

 

That is where all those great running stats and the great yd/attempt stats go out the window. That is where we are dead in the water.

 

We are one dimensional; not built to come from behind and not built to straight up pass the ball. You can only deceive a defense into thinking you are running so many times. It's that simple. It is an inherit flaw in the construction of the OL when preaching pocket passing as a priority.

 

The problem is compounded infinitely if the OC does not remain one dimensional in his creating of game plans. Kyle is all over the board; very dynamic and he largely wants to pass, we all know this. He has to go out of his way to get Al carries. His philosophy is not a good fit for Dad's great A1 run blocking OL.

 

The one that can't push for 1 yard, but still, is a great great run blocking OL.

 

It comes down to the QB, when you can't make plays or reads, you are limited.  We are seeing that this year.  When teams pin their ears back and blitz RG3 and leave 1 on 1 coverage it's not an oline problem at that point when 7 guys are brought and only 5 are blocking.  It's the inability to read a defense, it's his lack of going through progressions.  He is not beating teams with his arm because of those things and the inaccuracy this year.  He puts no fear in the defenses so they can come right at him. 

 

I'll use a quote that has already been used in here but I guess needs referenced again - "and RG3 with a month and a half to throw again" - from the Bears game.  He is locking on to his primary and not looking at other options which is resulting in him holding the ball to long.  He cannot throw a receiver open in man coverage.  It's things that he is learning, he's never had to do those before.

[RandyHolt]

It comes down to the QB, when you can't make plays or reads, you are limited.  We are seeing that this year.  When teams pin their ears back and blitz RG3 and leave 1 on 1 coverage it's not an oline problem at that point when 7 guys are brought and only 5 are blocking.  It's the inability to read a defense, it's his lack of going through progressions.  He is not beating teams with his arm because of those things and the inaccuracy this year.  He puts no fear in the defenses so they can come right at him. 

 

I'll use a quote that has already been used in here but I guess needs referenced again - "and RG3 with a month and a half to throw again" - from the Bears game.  He is locking on to his primary and not looking at other options which is resulting in him holding the ball to long.  He cannot throw a receiver open in man coverage.  It's things that he is learning, he's never had to do those before.

I can't completely disagree with that, but I also feel it CAN come down to the OL. Cue Mark_Rypien.jpg.

 

I think lost in all of the problems people tend to pin on the QB is, that we don't know what Kyle is asking him to do. Kyle may well be asking him to stay on that first read.  Be patient, give him time to get open. Trying to keep it simple for him; but making it worse because he is not allowed to move.

 

My question is, why behind the porous A gaps, is THIS the time to learn to be a pocket passer? 

 

I just think his fine resume before this year where he made plays, is proof enough. I trust RG3 infinitely more than I trust our OL to protect him. It comes down to Kyle using him to his strengths. No one I know thinks his strengths are when confined to the pocket. 

 

So its a year to learn perhaps. Only, the division is wide open. A foolish move to decide to do  because of his knee or otherwise; this is the time to change him. Change him during the offseason.

[skinny21]

I think he would have landed at worst one starter with the picks he gave away. I still go back to 2011 and remember (not sure which game) how much better we played when the season effectively over and the younger draftees got on the field, which trickled over to 2012. God himself couldn't convince me we'd be in a better position right now if Shanny took that approach the second he walked in the door.

I have absolutely no problem at all with how we have drafted since Shanny got here. It's the fact that those valuable commodity picks were given away in 2010 that bothers me precisely because I like how they've drafted.

Fair enough. I can't recall the Brown trade in detail, though I believe we recouped those picks? McNabb was definitely a questionable move, but I can understand their thinking at the time. Really though, I'm with you in that they should have taken their lumps in 2010 and evaluated the team before trading picks. Also with you that their drafting seems pretty good, though the injuries have made it difficult to judge a bunch of the picks.

[SJValleySkinz]

Fair enough. I can't recall the Brown trade in detail, though I believe we recouped those picks? McNabb was definitely a questionable move, but I can understand their thinking at the time. Really though, I'm with you in that they should have taken their lumps in 2010 and evaluated the team before trading picks. Also with you that their drafting seems pretty good, though the injuries have made it difficult to judge a bunch of the picks.

 

It couldn't have been more obvious that our roster needed to blown up and rebuilt, and the only proven method to successfully do that is via the draft. Those two trades were the EXACT type of moves that put us in position to need a roster overhaul.

 

As for recouping the picks, a full complement of draft picks in 2010 revurburates through the next couple of off-seasons improves our position anyway you slice it, rather than putting us in position to have to recoup wasted draft picks in the first place.

[War Paint]

The story of this team is the repeated errors in player acquisition that goes back to his first year here that have undermined the team's rebuild and continue to haunt us today.

2010

2011

2012:

 

Wow. I'm not sure where to begin.  I agree with some of your points but disagree with several others.

 

I agree pretty much with your 2010 assessment.  We traded several picks for players that didn't do anything for us.  I'm not sure if the Fat Albert situation could've been handled differently or not.  That was and still is a huge mess.  I don't think we could've gotten anything for Cooley and Carter.

 

I disagree with your opinion on the 2011 draft.  We had like 12 picks that year. Kerrigan has been fantastic.  I wouldn't trade him for any other player at his position.  He's a fantastic player to have on a team.  We also got Helu in the 4th round, who has been a good change of pace back for Morris.  The jury is still out on Jenkins and to some degree Hankerson.  Even if Hankerson doesn't emerge as a stud, he was a 3rd round pick.  You can make arguments about Paul and Aldrick Robinson, but these guys were taken in the 5th-6th rounds.

 

In 2012, your criticism ignores the fact that we had a massive cap penalty, so we probably couldn't go out and sign Winston.  Wasn't Winston the Olineman looking for high pay?  In regards to Russel Wilson, I heard stories that we talked to him about being the back up to RG3.  I like R. Wilson a lot.  He's talented and a great character guy, but I still think he greatly benefits from being on a loaded team and I have my doubts that R. Wilson would've been special if he was on a team with a lot of issues and question marks.  I guess LeRib could be labeled as a disappointment, but those olinemen were probably drafted with the mindset that they would be developed for a year or two.

 

In 2013, I agree the draft looks solid, but again, you seem to ignore our cap penalty when criticizing the front office for not going out and signing quality FA linemen.

[steve09ru]

It couldn't have been more obvious that our roster needed to blown up and rebuilt, and the only proven method to successfully do that is via the draft. Those two trades were the EXACT type of moves that put us in position to need a roster overhaul.

 

As for recouping the picks, a full complement of draft picks in 2010 revurburates through the next couple of off-seasons improves our position anyway you slice it, rather than putting us in position to have to recoup wasted draft picks in the first place.

Look at what the Colts have done to completely rebuild.  You can't do it all via draft so you do have to take some outside shots.  Some pan out, some don't.  The thing is, outside of the McNabb piece, we really didn't throw away any picks.  Carriker was effective for 2 seasons before getting hurt last year and we swapped picks with the rams in that draft so essentially moved back 2 rounds to get Carriker.  The Brown trade was a wash because he was injured so we didn't lose anything.  McNabb is the only bad move that cost us picks at this point in my opinion.

[War Paint]

  McNabb is the only bad move that cost us picks at this point in my opinion.

This is true, but didn't we get Alfred Morris with one of those picks we got from the Vikings/Mcnabb trade?  Alfred Morris definitely takes the sting out of the picks we initially lost for McNabb.

[steve09ru]

I can't completely disagree with that, but I also feel it CAN come down to the OL. Cue Mark_Rypien.jpg.

I think lost in all of the problems people tend to pin on the QB is, that we don't know what Kyle is asking him to do. Kyle may well be asking him to stay on that first read. Be patient, give him time to get open. Trying to keep it simple for him; but making it worse because he is not allowed to move.

My question is, why behind the porous A gaps, is THIS the time to learn to be a pocket passer?

I just think his fine resume before this year where he made plays, is proof enough. I trust RG3 infinitely more than I trust our OL to protect him. It comes down to Kyle using him to his strengths. No one I know thinks his strengths are when confined to the pocket.

So its a year to learn perhaps. Only, the division is wide open. A foolish move to decide to do because of his knee or otherwise; this is the time to change him. Change him during the offseason.

oh I agree completely and said the exact same thing in another thread regarding rg3 and Kyle and getting him outside the pocket. That's the only way he's going to get better in the pocket because defenses will hesitate on sending so many people.

I think there are a couple obvious holes on this team that the cap penalty would have allowed us to fill but with what mikes done personnel wise, I think ha been great considering what it was at. The thing that is not working is not on the personnel itself but how the personnel we have is being used, both offensively and defensively.

This is true, but didn't we get Alfred Morris with one of those picks we got from the Vikings/Mcnabb trade? Alfred Morris definitely takes the sting out of the picks we initially lost for McNabb.

correct, just talking about the trade in itself with what we gave up. I was 70/30 on mcnabb at the time so can't say a lot against it but I'm also not the one to make the decision. Tht we got something for mcnabb was great

[SJValleySkinz]

Look at what the Colts have done to completely rebuild.  You can't do it all via draft so you do have to take some outside shots.  Some pan out, some don't.  The thing is, outside of the McNabb piece, we really didn't throw away any picks.  Carriker was effective for 2 seasons before getting hurt last year and we swapped picks with the rams in that draft so essentially moved back 2 rounds to get Carriker.  The Brown trade was a wash because he was injured so we didn't lose anything.  McNabb is the only bad move that cost us picks at this point in my opinion.

 

The level of egrigiousness comes from completely missreading a situation that wasn't very hard to diagnose for people that have been in the NFL for decades. The Brown trade was a loss because we lost draft picks and gained nothing.

 

As for the Colts, assuming the goal is to get back to where they're in the playoffs and competing for their division every year their project is far from complete and post Manning they immediately began accumilating picks (17 in two drafts), and so far they've been very good in free agency and while I don't agree with the two major trades they have made at least you can lay out a legitimate list of pros for them. Both players (Vontae Davis, Trent Richardson) are young with a lot of upside and like I mentioned before, when you have 17 picks in two years those kind of trades become an affordable luxury. Unless some things change in the NFL, there will never be a valid excuse or reason to make the trades that were made in 2010 at the onset of an obvious rebuilding project.

[RG3Hunna]

But if he fails this year its okay? Why does another season make the difference between being 'moronic' and 'wouldn't bring him back period'? If he's the right man for the job where are the results?

Who do you want to replace Shanahan? That's my point so many of you are ready to blow the thing up but you don't have a replacement candidate, cowher and gruden are not coming to this team. 

 

This is "Fire Danny Smith" all over again, our special teams is even more PUTRID then when Danny Smith was here, at least when Danny Smith was here our punt return and kick return coverage was very good. Our problem was we never had a kicker we finally get cobra kai and our punt return and kick return coverage is TERRIBLE.

 

Not a snarky comment but PLEASEEEEEEe let me know who you want to replace Shanahan, who is a valid coach? The vikings wanted childress gone they hired frazier and he's even WORSE lol 

[darrelgreenie]

Who do you want to replace Shanahan? That's my point so many of you are ready to blow the thing up but you don't have a replacement candidate, cowher and gruden are not coming to this team. ........Not a snarky comment but PLEASEEEEEEe let me know who you want to replace Shanahan, who is a valid coach?..

I will gladly answer your questions. But first do you have a response to mine?

[RG3Hunna]

I will gladly answer your questions. But first do you have a response to mine?

Sure, sorry forgot to answer your question, shanahan said when he got the job I need 5 years to turn this thing around. I, like many others expected us to take a step back this year. RGIII is playing so terrible this year, he's the reason for the loss against the broncos and the loss against the lions, that's two L's that we could have turned in to W's.

 

That has nothing to do with the front office/coaching staff, of course they have made mistakes, I think every front office/coaching staff does, but the reason why we are 2-5 is because of RGIII. I love the kid but he's just not playing like himself and i'm not ready to overreact and blow up what we've built to bring in another regime who want's to blow up everything and build another team with different philosophies which is going to take another 3-4 years to build. 

 

The lions for example took a step back last year, they could have blown up everything but they decided to stay the course and they are now 5-3 in the driver seat of the very tough NFCNorth. 

 

My point is, lets not overreact and hit the panic button and start all over just because we are 2-5 and not 4-3 or 5-2 like we should be. The chargers had Phillip Rivers take a MAJOR step back last year and they sucked in result of that and now he is playing like Phillip Rivers again and they are 4-3 in an extremely tough division.

 

Lets see how the team performs next year when we have cap and the kid RGIII doesn't have a bulky brace restricting his passing. If we struggle next year then I agree the coaching staff/front office should get the boot, but if they don't struggle next year then we know we made the right choice in not overreacting and pressing the panic/restart button. 

[steve09ru]

The level of egrigiousness comes from completely missreading a situation that wasn't very hard to diagnose for people that have been in the NFL for decades. The Brown trade was a loss because we lost draft picks and gained nothing.

 

As for the Colts, assuming the goal is to get back to where they're in the playoffs and competing for their division every year their project is far from complete and post Manning they immediately began accumilating picks (17 in two drafts), and so far they've been very good in free agency and while I don't agree with the two major trades they have made at least you can lay out a legitimate list of pros for them. Both players (Vontae Davis, Trent Richardson) are young with a lot of upside and like I mentioned before, when you have 17 picks in two years those kind of trades become an affordable luxury. Unless some things change in the NFL, there will never be a valid excuse or reason to make the trades that were made in 2010 at the onset of an obvious rebuilding project.

The 3rd and 6th that were lost in 2010 were a result of Vinny (Jason Taylor and Jeremy Jarmon).  You also mention the accumulating picks piece but the Redskins have had 16 picks since RG3 (18 the 2 years before). 

 

What I see in terms of the McNabb trade is them wanting to evaluate the current team they inherited to fully understand what needs and direction the team needed to go in.  When everything failed with that, they then knew what direction they needed to go in.  McNabb did not help through the evaluating process like they had hoped.  It's almost impossible to evaluate a team when you don't have a QB.  The play of the QB directly effects every offensive position and your own defense as well.

 

When Mike signed his contract it was "I need 5 years to do the rebuild I want" - Year 1 is evaluating current talent (only way to do that is with a competent QB - unfortunately that QB ended up being lazy and bumping heads with the coaches).  Year 2 could have been QB focus but what was there?  They knew about the strong 2012 QB class so they began to build outside of the QB position that year.  They finally got their franchise QB in year 3 but didn't have money to spend because of the cap penalty. Didn't matter, year 3 was a success and took home the division crown.  Year 4, our QB just had major knee surgery and is still not 100% mentally back.  He missed the whole off-season, a lot of people (realists) knew this would be a down year due to that.  Year 5 is still to be seen.

[darrelgreenie]

Sure, sorry forgot to answer your question, shanahan said when he got the job I need 5 years to turn this thing around.....RGIII is playing so terrible this year, he's the reason for the loss against the broncos and the loss against the lions, that's two L's that we could have turned in to W's.

 

My point is, lets not overreact and hit the panic button and start all over....

 Thank you for the response i'll sum it up: so basically you want to keep Shanahan because he asked for 5 years, RGIII is the reason for our struggles this year and not bringing this regime back would be a panic move?  And you're not put off back the lack of results in the W/L column. Is that correct?

 

Your question:

 

In the hypothetical situation where we need a new FO here is what I would want:

 

 

o AJ Smith would be gone. I never liked him in San Diego and his mere presence on our staff bothers me.

o Bruce Allen would be gone in favor of an actual GM.

 

GM: a young Jr. GM that has learned behind a good GM from a successful franchise e.g. Eric DeCosta

 

HC: An offensive minded coach Pete Carmicael, Tom Clements Green Bay OC that isn't from a total different scheme.

Other options: I would like to hire this man Phillip Montgomery (OC from Baylor) as the QB Coach or WR coach or offensive assistant just invent a position to get him on the current staff working with Griff and adding some Baylor into our offense.

[steve09ru]

I look at it this way:

 

You're a new CEO taking over a struggling company that has zero processes and direction in place.  You spend the first quarter evaluating what you have, 2nd quarter making the necessary moves, 3rd quarter you are able to finally turn a profit in which the company hasn't done for 5 years but lose your VP of Sales.  You adjust to that in Q4 while you work out the kinks with the new guy but your Q4 is down from Q3.  You also have a couple big investors coming in for the start of 2014 Q1 that should help get your company even further ahead than what it was in Q3.  Do you deserve to be let go to start the year?  Or should you be given a chance with stability and the money from investors that you haven't had before to build off a strong Q3?

[SJValleySkinz]

The 3rd and 6th that were lost in 2010 were a result of Vinny (Jason Taylor and Jeremy Jarmon).  You also mention the accumulating picks piece but the Redskins have had 16 picks since RG3 (18 the 2 years before). 

 

What I see in terms of the McNabb trade is them wanting to evaluate the current team they inherited to fully understand what needs and direction the team needed to go in.  When everything failed with that, they then knew what direction they needed to go in.  McNabb did not help through the evaluating process like they had hoped.  It's almost impossible to evaluate a team when you don't have a QB.  The play of the QB directly effects every offensive position and your own defense as well.

 

When Mike signed his contract it was "I need 5 years to do the rebuild I want" - Year 1 is evaluating current talent (only way to do that is with a competent QB - unfortunately that QB ended up being lazy and bumping heads with the coaches).  Year 2 could have been QB focus but what was there?  They knew about the strong 2012 QB class so they began to build outside of the QB position that year.  They finally got their franchise QB in year 3 but didn't have money to spend because of the cap penalty. Didn't matter, year 3 was a success and took home the division crown.  Year 4, our QB just had major knee surgery and is still not 100% mentally back.  He missed the whole off-season, a lot of people (realists) knew this would be a down year due to that.  Year 5 is still to be seen.

 

If he inherited such a mess from Cerrato that would need a few years to clean up, why start it off by giving away a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick? If the roster was so bad, why risk slowing down the rebuilding process? These are of course rhetorical questions because these moves are 100% indefensible.

[steve09ru]

If he inherited such a mess from Cerrato that would need a few years to clean up, why start it off by giving away a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick? If the roster was so bad, why risk slowing down the rebuilding process? These are of course rhetorical questions because these moves are 100% indefensible.

 

Again, I don't think the McNabb move was a good one looking back but that 2010 draft he was already without a 3rd and 6th.  He got rid of a 2nd only that year.

 

2010 draft picks:

1, 2(McNabb), **3 (Jarmon), 4, 6, 7, 7, 7

There was not a 6th initially due to the Jason Taylor trade so he traded out of the 5th and picked up a 6th and 7th (2).

 

2011 draft picks below:

1,2,3,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,7

 

So essentially Mike only gave up 1 pick, the 2010 2nd rounder.  Jamal Brown didn't have enough snaps so I don't believe the conditional we traded for him ever ended up being taken away.