Examining Shanahan's Failures In Personnel Acquisition - A Brief Overview:

[SJValleySkinz]

of course you don't homey...you're playing nfl 101. focusing on individual moves...the ones you disagree with...instead of the big picture. you learn that in nfl 202.

 

I won't hold my breath on learning anyhting I don't know about the NFL from you. The big picture is that considering how well they've drafted those 2nd and 3rd picks could have been starters, and would have eliminated future needs, allowing for more talent to be stock pilled. BTW, saying there's no difference between a 2nd round pick and 4th or 6th round pick is NFL short school bus.

[NoCalMike]

The Kaepernick pick is a bit different considering the team had a starting QB who took the team to the NFC Championship. It was a low risk pick.  A guy with a ton of upside but not possibly ready yet.

[Redskins Diehard]

I won't hold my breath on learning anyhting I don't know about the NFL from you. The big picture is that considering how well they've drafted those 2nd and 3rd picks could have been starters, and would have eliminated future needs, allowing for more talent to be stock pilled. BTW, saying there's no difference between a 2nd round pick and 4th or 6th round pick is NFL short school bus.

If someone said they were the same maybe you'd be right. you've said draft picks are the number one commodity....but don't care about how many they gained...just how many they lost. I know it is a challenging math problem.

as it turns out they found a future starter in the McNabb fiasco. his name is alfred morris. they did miss out on nate allen though. I can see how you'd be upset

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The sheer amount of sophistry is mindboggling.

I love how we're using Nate Allen as an argument, when Sean Lee, Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Zane Beadles, Terrance Cody, Carlos Dunlap, and a bunch of other Pro Bowl caliber guys were taken after that pick. And somehow to defend the trade, you need to draw a direct line of causation from selling McNabb for pennies on the dollar to drafting a late round RB and striking gold.

Here's a thought - if Shanny didn't come in and do his best Vinny impression year one, we could have had Morris AND one of those guys we gave up. And yes, that was a Vinny-esque move, and I'm ashamed it didn't set off alarm bells right away. In fact, the McNabb move was worse in hindsight than any single move Vinny EVER did (gave up better picks, lost the chance to draft elite stud talents)

[Redskins Diehard]

The sheer amount of sophistry is mindboggling.

I love how we're using Nate Allen as an argument, when Sean Lee, Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Zane Beadles, Terrance Cody, Carlos Dunlap, and a bunch of other Pro Bowl caliber guys were taken after that pick. And somehow to defend the trade, you need to draw a direct line of causation from selling McNabb for pennies on the dollar to drafting a late round RB and striking gold.

Here's a thought - if Shanny didn't come in and do his best Vinny impression year one, we could have had Morris AND one of those guys we gave up. And yes, that was a Vinny-esque move, and I'm ashamed it didn't set off alarm bells right away. In fact, the McNabb move was worse in hindsight than any single move Vinny EVER did (gave up better picks, lost the chance to draft elite stud talents)

comic gold

[skinpride1]

Right...Vinny getting Fat Albert Is the one of worst deals in NFL history. Not McNabb

[chipwhich]

comic gold

 

Yeah but you are the butt end of the joke.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Right...Vinny getting Fat Albert Is the one of worst deals in NFL history. Not McNabb

Vinny didn't give up premium draft picks though.

[Redskins Diehard]

Yeah but you are the butt end of the joke.

yeah, because some kid decides to hindsight a draft. for every terrence cody there is a sergio kindle. the McNabb deal didn't work out. hardly handcuffed the franchise. certainly doesn't compare to vinny.

[skinpride1]

Vinny didn't give up premium draft picks though.

You forgetting the reason we got 36 million taken away in cap space??? Goes back to VInny giving fat boy that monster contract. We still paying the price today!!!!

[Redskins Diehard]

Right...Vinny getting Fat Albert Is the one of worst deals in NFL history. Not McNabb

how about vinny and his 2 second round receivers and 1 tight end. those were not one, not 2, but 3 second round picks

[chipwhich]

yeah, because some kid decides to hindsight a draft. for every terrence cody there is a sergio kindle. the McNabb deal didn't work out. hardly handcuffed the franchise. certainly doesn't compare to vinny.

 

You are a Ravens fan?  Again you are the butt end of the joke.  Comedic gold.

[Mania]

Because RGIII as a QB prospect was arguably the best QB prospect since Elway, and getting a QB of that caliber is worth the draft picks given up.

And yes, I thought he should have given up GM duties last year. He's been a poor drafter with a penchant for bad personnel management, since the Elway years - he does hit gems like Marshall, Morris, Clady and Cutler from time to time, but more often than not he picks guys like Will Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss.

And you don't call giving up a 2nd rounder and getting a 6th in return, especially a HIGH 2nd rounder, a ridiculously bad deal? ESPECIALLY when you look at who was drafted in the 2010 second round.

When that 6th turns into Morris it becomes well worth it. Lucky, but worth it.

[Redskins Diehard]

You are a Ravens fan? Again you are the butt end of the joke. Comedic gold.

yes, you figured it out.

[chipwhich]

yes, you figured it out.

 

Well you might change your name.  Comedic gold.

 

Anyone saying low picks that were lucky > high picks = comedic gold plus you showed your colors.

[Redskins Diehard]

Well you might change your name. Comedic gold.

Anyone saying low picks that were lucky > high picks = comedic gold plus you showed your colors.

maybe i'll look into that.

now if you could just find where I said low picks better than high picks you would be on to something. but you can't. because I didn't.

your madden playing op that wanted to trade everyone for picks chose to highlight terrence cody as a player we should have had. maybe he is the ravens fan? of course if you look at the draft the ravens themselves thought Sergio kindle was the better prospect. how did that turn out?

[TheLongshot]

What I don't get is how this franchise sucks at drafting WRs.  Their judgement just seems to be so off at who will succeed at the NFL level.

 

Hankerson is in year 3 and most times barely makes a blip on the radar during games. 

 

Compare this to guys like Morris & Reed.  There was no "wow, can't to see what they will look like in their 3rd year in this offense" with them.  They were drafted, came in immediately and have been studs since Day 1.

 

Is the WR position that hard to scout that we keep ending up with busts or guys who belong as #4 slot WRs, playing #2 & #3 for this team?

 

I just don't understand.

 

The last good WR the Redskins drafted was Art Monk.  It doesn't matter who the GM is or the head coach, they haven't drafted a WR worth a damn since.  That hasn't changed under Shanny.

 

I'm not going to comment much on the OP, since there was a good deal of wishful thinking there, but when Shanahan got here, the OL and S were probably the positions of greatest need.  4 years later, they are still probably the worst positions on the team.  People like to talk as if our drafts have been great under Shanahan, but his first two are looking pretty shaky.  Only two players from the first draft are still on the team, after trading a 2nd for McNabb.  We picked a lot of guys in 2011, but most of them don't look nearly as good as we hoped, with Kerrigan the only bonafide stud in the group.  People will probably remember 2012 for RG3 and Morris, but so far the rest hasn't done much.  Jury is still out there, but it doesn't look good.

 

Yeah, we can blame a lot by getting screwed by the owners collusion in our cap penalty, but it isn't good that we have to look at FA to fix a ton of problems with this team.  We know from the past that it is difficult to do that.

 

After 4 years, I was hoping we'd be further along.  Not enough parts are sticking.

[MusicCitySkin]

What Longshot said.

 

The fact that people are screaming for the cap penalty to be over so we can fix the holes on the roster with FA acquisitions doesn't speak very highly of this regime's ability to draft talent.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Also the wasted picks and blown cap dollars have further knock on effects.

 

For example, let's say we don't resign Fred Davis, we don't resign Carriker, we don't sign Josh Morgan in 2012. That's about 12 million in cap dollars, and all of those moves are very reasonable, given injury/lack of productivity (we signed ALL of those guys coming off major injuries, what the hell?)

 

That gets us Eric Winston, at the least, and maybe allows us to trade for Aqib Talib (who has been an absolute stud this year, as a lot of us thought he would). If you're willing to go even more radical, say, cutting Moss and Bowen (dunno the hit for cutting Bowen), that's even more money. And it's easier to make those moves if you draft better, and don't waste the picks you do have.

[steve09ru]

What Longshot said.

The fact that people are screaming for the cap penalty to be over so we can fix the holes on the roster with FA acquisitions doesn't speak very highly of this regime's ability to draft talent.

its ridiculous to expect a full string of starters in 4 drafts. There's also a reason we went from the oldest team in the nfl to one of the youngest in a matter of 2 years.

[steve09ru]

Also the wasted picks and blown cap dollars have further knock on effects.

 

For example, let's say we don't resign Fred Davis, we don't resign Carriker, we don't sign Josh Morgan in 2012. That's about 12 million in cap dollars, and all of those moves are very reasonable, given injury/lack of productivity (we signed ALL of those guys coming off major injuries, what the hell?)

 

That gets us Eric Winston, at the least, and maybe allows us to trade for Aqib Talib (who has been an absolute stud this year, as a lot of us thought he would). If you're willing to go even more radical, say, cutting Moss and Bowen (dunno the hit for cutting Bowen), that's even more money. And it's easier to make those moves if you draft better, and don't waste the picks you do have.

Dude, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Carriker had just completed 2 full seasons when he signed his extension.  Davis was a cheap, good signing to bring back to prove considering his play making ability and recent successes before injury.  Morgan was the cheapest we could have gotten at receiver and did not have a bad year last year at all.  He we one of the only guys you could count on going over the middle and holding on to the ball, not to mention the impact he's made at a blocker.  He has also been pretty good on Special Teams.

 

These moves were made before Talib was even a FA.  Winston signed with the Chiefs within 5 days of being released and their were multiple reports of them being interested in bringing him in.  They did not pursue him after the Chiefs cut him 1 year later.  Cut Bowen?  That would have been a 4.5M cap hit plus he's been a solid DE.  Who do we replace him with?  Jenkins was suspended and Golston should not be a starter. 

[Fred Jones]

It really comes down to RG3.  Will he develop into a true franchise QB?  If he does not than Shanny failed, but it is hard to blame him since every year teams fail trying to get a franchise QB.

[Audible_Red40]

Wow man, calling them failures is a bit harsh.

 

The 2010 roster moves should not even be considered failures.  You still wanna win when "rebuilding". 

 

To come out and say "failed to trade players".  C'mon man, that's not how the NFL works.  It takes 2 to tango as well.

 

Considering the roster he "inherited" when becoming head football coach.  Shanahan has done a super job in getting rid of overpriced, over hyped, OLD players.

 

How about answer the question of, how many players has Shanahan gotten rid of that were Vinny's mess of draft picks and contracts, have gone on to have stellar careers or even ONE super season?  Outside of Carlos Rogers and LaRon Landry who paid their dues as players and left via free agency (regardless of the relationship with the team), there's not a player from that pathetic roster doing an once of anything.

 

The 2010 year was cleaning up another man's puke.  You can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

[RandyHolt]

If a GM/coach cannot construct an offensive line in 4 years, I think its fair to assume they will not be able to going forward.

 

Maybe Dan needs to hire a bingo caller consultant to tell them how to build an OL.  Quite frankly, nothing I have seen makes me think more cap room will change his approach to line construction.

 

It's off the radar, free agents, LeReaches or late round guys that he prefers. His big pickup in FA, Chester, was nothing more than a projected backup in Baltimore. That's a sweet deal he got.

 

Since the HC and OC cannot get on the same page in year 4 on how to use said OL to their strengths, I am not optimistic about positive changes, without one or both moving on.

 

We all know Mike wants to run behind a mobile line he builds himself. We all know Kyle wants to pass. All the defenses know this, too. Tis a rare thing to fool a team in our passing game anymore. Everything deep is double covered.

 

All the cap room in the world can't mold those 2 different visions into 1.

[TheLongshot]

Carriker had just completed 2 full seasons when he signed his extension.  Davis was a cheap, good signing to bring back to prove considering his play making ability and recent successes before injury.  Morgan was the cheapest we could have gotten at receiver and did not have a bad year last year at all.  He we one of the only guys you could count on going over the middle and holding on to the ball, not to mention the impact he's made at a blocker.  He has also been pretty good on Special Teams.

 

To be honest, you can't predict injuries.  You also can't predict that a rookie would be so awesome to put a guy on the bench.  But as for Morgan, I felt he would have been expendable if it weren't for the fact that we haven't found any answers at WR from the draft.  Had Hankerson showed some signs in developing into a solid #2 WR, we wouldn't had to waste money on Morgan, who has been a waste so far this season.

 

Personally, while part of me liked the fact that a lot of players I liked were coming back, part of me also was wondering if we would have been better off in the long-term if we just cut ties with some of these mediocre players and play the draft compensation game.  Course, that would require us to get better returns from the draft.