Oldfan Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Where I'm coming from with this thread: I want to root for a team that has being the number one organization indefinitely as its goal. I'm not concerned with winning short-term if there is long-term progress toward that goal. I didn't like the hiring of Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan because the best one could project from their extensive resumes is high-level mediocrity, a team that averages about nine wins per season. After their three seasons here, that prediction still looks good to me. I see both positives and negatives in Mike Shanahan's performance. Yet, I post more about the negatives because it is not a popular thing to do in this forum and I don't see anyone else doing it. I'm filling a void. The trust factor: Football coaches talk a lot about leadership. As a player, I wouldn't trust the Shanahans to lead me anywhere. I think they would talk a good game, and then turn on me if it served their purpose. I think the Shanahans, Mike and Kyle, will deceive their fans if it's in their best interest. We first saw this clearly when they couldn't get their stories straight after yanking McNabb from the game in Chicago. More recently, it annoys the hell out of me that, judging from the comments in this forum, Mike and Kyle have succeeded in convincing most Redskins fans that their stellar quarterback bears the burden of responsibility for his injuries in 2012. The Shanahans have repeatedly told us that RG3 has to learn to protect himself better on runs. Okay, fine. But that fact was obvious to me from watching one or two games. How long did it take the Shanahans to figure that out? Could they not see that from scouting his college games? Couldn't they see that from the first couple of games in 2012? Why do you continue to call designed runs for a player that you know can't protect himself well on runs? Lately, Mike's refrain has been that Robert needs to be more honest with him in the future. Does that make any sense at all when we are talking about a knee injury? After straining the knee in the first half of the season, Mike sent the Redskins most valuable asset back out there wearing a brace. That was foolish. The sufficiency of knee braces to prevent further injury in football has not been proven. If Robert begged to play, and insisted he was fine, he should have been ignored. In the Seattle game, millions of TV viewers saw that Robert had aggravated his knee injury and was at risk for still more damage if he continued to play, but Mike Shanahan kept him in the game. Forget about game strategy and focus on the added risk to the player. What convincing lie could Robert possibly have told to Mike that would have out-weighed the visable evidence? As a fan, I don't expect full disclosure from a coach or GM, but I expect them to show me some respect. I don't lke being treated like a fool. You can blame my friend Mahons21 for my rant. He linked me to an article about Bears GM Phil Emery that he thought I'd like. I read that and then searched for more about the man. I'm going to link you to his statement about selecting Kyle Long in the draft. Emery can be fairly criticized for giving too much information, but this one statement convinced me that the man respects Bears fans and wants to involve them as much as possible in his process. I can't imagine him deliberately deceiving Bears fans or betraying his subordinates. This is a man who can be trusted. http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2013/04/q_a_bears_gm_phil_emery_on_og_.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdrums Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 *Reads thread title* *Thinks, "Hm, sounds like an oldfan thread."* *Checks author of thread* *Chuckles* *Decides to share* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 *McNabb was the Detroit game after throwing a pic deep in our own territory when he should've eaten the ball *I think Robert has done a good job showing his own ass in the media in terms of his patience *The Seattle game was a mistake. We've covered that at naseum. It appears Mike has learned and moved on. Obviously we'll see how he handles it in the regular season, but as of right now it appears he's being very cautious with several players coming off of injury. *Every new thought doesn't need to be a thread. This is your equivelant to the DC City Paper piece from Dave McKenna a couple of years back on Danny... greatest hits rolled into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDP III Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 why can't people just be happy that we finally have a promising football team that is exciting and fun to watch. Given what we have had the last decade+ in terms of GM's and coaches sans Gibbs round 2, Shanahan and company are a godsend. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Who said a void needs to be filled, lol? Anyone feeling particularly empty around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems to me that Shanahan's approach is as long term as you can get in a business like the NFL. His team is built around players he has drafted. When the secondary became an issue he didn't pursue the one year thirty three year old rental, but went draft. That said, the NFL demands a blend. You have to have some win now or by the time your team is ready to run you will not have a job. So vets as mentors, starters, and even fill ins like Barnett are necessary. Mind you, in respect to long term success taking a flier on a Nick Barnett because of injury is a lot different than trading away second rounders for past their prime players. Should we trust them. I think the better question is should their players trust them. I'm less concerned with what's fed to the public for PR reasons than what is said and how the players are handled in house. With that, he has a mixed record although ultimately with McNabb, Haynesworth and others he has been proven correct. I guess you might say he was wrong about Landry and Rogers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Who said a void needs to be filled, lol? Anyone feeling particularly empty around here? Hell, if anything, this place has been TOO negative over the past few seasons. Who said a void needs to be filled, lol? Anyone feeling particularly empty around here? Hell, if anything, this place has been TOO negative over the past few seasons. Who said a void needs to be filled, lol? Anyone feeling particularly empty around here? Hell, if anything, this place has been TOO negative over the past few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Mike Shanahan is a great coach in my eyes, I've long been a fan of his offenses going back to Denver. I thought Mike/Kyle's offense last year was nothing short of genius. But, for me Mike proved a long time ago that he will say anything to the media/fan regardless of truth. The current rumbles that I dislike are centered around Mike's statements regarding Griffin's availability for pre-season and week 1: '“We do have a plan for him. He may not always like that plan, but that’s my job, sometimes not to be liked.” Rather then a mea culpa regarding his own handling of Griffin's injury last year. He seems to be grandstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Overall I like shanny. But... My only real gripe against him is the handling of rg3 post ravens game. I saw the injury happen and noted that he should be out for the year. I can understand the desire to sit him for a game or two then bring him back, though I dont think that was a wise decision. The Seahawks game though was ridiculous. That loss is all on Shanahan. Rg3 should have been out of the game when the score was 14 to nothing, I was screaming at the tv. you've got a capable backup who has already proven that he can jump in the game in high pressure situations and perform admirably and cousins would have had a 14 point lead. Instead though, you risk rg3s long term health and you lose any chance of winning the game. I still dont know what shanny was thinking there. Also, everyone seemed to glaze over the fact that there were conflicting stories between the doc and coach. One of the two remains a liar, and I dont understand why a bigger deal wasn't made on that topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I understand that you are just playing devils advocate. But we're on the brink of a new season, hopes and expectations are high. So why bring this up now? Shanahan appears to be handling the injured players properly and not rushing anyone back too soon. Mistakes were made last year, and it's been discussed at length. But why apportion blame now? Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 What I never get with ppl that share this stance is this: Is it crazy to think that Shanny has learned from whole initial debacle and now knows what to do? Coaches are ppl too. They can learn new **** from time to time. I think if the situation arises again, we'll handle it the right way from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems to me that Shanahan's approach is as long term as you can get in a business like the NFL. His team is built around players he has drafted. When the secondary became an issue he didn't pursue the one year thirty three year old rental, but went draft. One thing frustrating on this board is people like to have it both ways. He HAD to draft, we didn't have any salary cap. The true Shanahan will show himself next offseason. Then we will know if the organization has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I understand that you are just playing devils advocate. But we're on the brink of a new season, hopes and expectations are high. So why bring this up now? Shanahan appears to be handling the injured players properly and not rushing anyone back too soon. Mistakes were made last year, and it's been discussed at length. But why apportion blame now? Let it go. I guess because if Redskin fans aren't pissing and moaning about something, they aren't breathing. I agree. Lets just play ball already. I see more talk about past stuff in here when we have a preaseason game a little over 28 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have a wound. I pick the scab off. I think to myself, " I know this happened a long time ago, but I can't imagine why its bleeding?" It scabs over. I pick it off again and wonder why it still hurts. We haven't given enough time to tell whether Shanny AND Griff will learn from that mistake. (I used the word AND - meaning a SHARED fault) Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems to me that Shanahan's approach is as long term as you can get in a business like the NFL. His team is built around players he has drafted. When the secondary became an issue he didn't pursue the one year thirty three year old rental, but went draft. One thing frustrating on this board is people like to have it both ways. He HAD to draft, we didn't have any salary cap. The true Shanahan will show himself next offseason. Then we will know if the organization has changed. Couldn't disagree more. We have a ton of evidence pointing to Shanahan valuing the draft over all else, while the only evidence against that is his willingness to depart with valuable picks for the QB position alone. To me, that makes sense. QB is the most significant position on the team. Other than that, the draft is king and they try to amass as many picks as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup's Uncle Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Wow. We finally have a team that's not the laughing stock and it's still not good enough. When we win a Super Bowl, people are gonna say, "yeah, but they shouldn't have won it" or "they didn't deserve to win it, they are a joke". He built the team the right way. We have a young, fast, competitive team, that hopefully will only get better. He's coming back to quick!!! He's not even back yet guys. He's not playing in the preseason and not participating in team drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Shanny is in the HOF. Oldfan is in the ES Ring of Fame. Place your bets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 DC9 -- McNabb was the Detroit game after throwing a pic deep in our own territory when he should've eaten the ball. What difference does that make given our topic? *I think Robert has done a good job showing his own ass in the media in terms of his patience. I don't know what you mean, but Robert's trustworthiness isn't relevant here. *The Seattle game was a mistake....It appears Mike has learned and moved on. It doesn't appear that way to me when he keeps repeating that Robert must learn to be more honest with him. Can you tell me what lie Robert might have told that would make him in any way responsible for the Seattle debacle? *Every new thought doesn't need to be a thread. This is your equivelant to the DC City Paper piece from Dave McKenna a couple of years back on Danny... greatest hits rolled into one. You have opinions, but no arguments. How can I be so far wrong if you can't find an on-topic counter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems to me that Shanahan's approach is as long term as you can get in a business like the NFL. His team is built around players he has drafted. When the secondary became an issue he didn't pursue the one year thirty three year old rental, but went draft. One thing frustrating on this board is people like to have it both ways. He HAD to draft, we didn't have any salary cap. The true Shanahan will show himself next offseason. Then we will know if the organization has changed. Couldn't disagree more. We have a ton of evidence pointing to Shanahan valuing the draft over all else, while the only evidence against that is his willingness to depart with valuable picks for the QB position alone. To me, that makes sense. QB is the most significant position on the team. Other than that, the draft is king and they try to amass as many picks as they can. I am happy with where the team is, and not complaining. As to Shanny and the draft, he had to, he had two back to back salary cap penalties. Next year will show his true colors....just saying... Year one under Shanny with no cap penalty he didn't intend to build through the draft :-) And he made dumb moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems to me that Shanahan's approach is as long term as you can get in a business like the NFL. His team is built around players he has drafted. When the secondary became an issue he didn't pursue the one year thirty three year old rental, but went draft. One thing frustrating on this board is people like to have it both ways. He HAD to draft, we didn't have any salary cap. The true Shanahan will show himself next offseason. Then we will know if the organization has changed. But if you look at the pre cap penalty bs the contracts were still pretty reasonable and the blend was still there. Again, no coach can build totally through the draft and survive. There's room for gray beards, mentors, and mercenaries that hopefully you can sift out as you build. One of the ways you know the future isn't being ignored is that we are starting to see signs of depth. People can step up and even with gads of injuries and a cap penalty we have enough in the tank to win seven in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 drtdrums, SDP III, the submittedone, 98QBkiller, pjfootballer, London Kev, Braveson the warpath, Dagoonies, Soups uncle and Alvinwaltonismyboy have posted their displeasure with my post but none countered the arguments made. This supports my suspicion that my position would be unpopular but correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Didn't Shanahan already admit it was a mistake to simply go along with RGIII saying he felt fine and could go back in from the Seattle game? He said he won't leave those decisions soley in RGIII's hands anymore due to his competative nature and always wanting to be in there regardless. Do you think he is lying? One fellow Ring of Famer to another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Oldfan - What difference does that make given our topic? It illustrates your attention to detail... or lack thereof I don't know what you mean, but Robert's trustworthiness isn't relevant here. 1) You said the Shanahans have done a good job convincing everyone they were not at fault in the Seattle game 2) Robert's trustworthiness is in question, when it's on film that he lied to Shanahan and told Trent Williams to cover for him It doesn't appear that way to me when he keeps repeating that Robert must learn to be more honest with him. Can you tell me what lie Robert might have told that would make him in any way responsible for the Seattle debacle? See above. And I'm not saying both were at fault. I'm saying that it was a team effort. Obviously Shanny should've pulled Rob because his performance didn't pass the eye test. Robert said that he was "Hurt, not injured, there is a difference". Move on. You have opinions, but no arguments. How can I be so far wrong if you can't find an on-topic counter? You apparently wouldn't know a counter if you fell and hit your head on it, Oldfan. Come on man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 If you look at most Superbowl winning coaches, they went as far as the Franchise QB took them. What would Shanahan's motivation be to purposely put RGIII in harm's way? What does he have to gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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