Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The Thunder are 5-1 since Westbrook's return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 He's already signed a hundred million deal though. After a certain point, does the money keep mattering more than legacy? He only gets so many more chances to win a ring as anything more than a washed up vet riding along with a contender. I think this is so easy for fans to say. It's just just $50 million versus a ring. It's a tangible $50 million versus a very nebulous possibility for a ring. Chicago could very easily be a third seed that loses in the second round even with Melo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's hard to blame guys for taking the money. I mean if all things were equal, wouldn't you take the job that pays you more? Sure you can argue that the Bulls are closer to a ring than the Knicks, but that's still alot of money to turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Money over rings. You make it to the NBA to make money. A guy like Melo is about money and not about being the best like Lebron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think this is so easy for fans to say. It's just just $50 million versus a ring. It's a tangible $50 million versus a very nebulous possibility for a ring. Chicago could very easily be a third seed that loses in the second round even with Melo. In a year with no real favorites, I think Chicago becomes the favorite with Melo. Butler, Melo, Gibson, Noah. Even without any contribution from Derrick Rose, that is a team with three to four All Stars in the starting line up. They'd play their usual hellacious defense and kill teams on the glass + be able to score in crunch time. I think he could have gotten a ring this year in Chicago. Realistically, whose beating that team? Nobody in the East. Probably the Spurs and maybe GS would be the only teams in the West with similar balance. I also think he could have made Dallas the title favorite if he signed there. Dallas is already close, upgrade Parsons's fairly ordinary level of play to Melo and you've got a pretty scary team with the best front-court by a country mile. You're right, it's not certain. But it's also not certain that he couldn't have made as much money elsewhere by taking a one year deal like LeBron. The only thing that is certain is he will never win a ring with the Knicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's hard to blame guys for taking the money. I mean if all things were equal, wouldn't you take the job that pays you more? Sure you can argue that the Bulls are closer to a ring than the Knicks, but that's still alot of money to turn down. All things are not even close to equal. The Bulls are a far better team and organization than the Knicks. Would you work a **** job for an awful company that kills all of the joy in the thing you love most over the opposite because it paid a lot more money? Popovich's "quality of life" really does matter. Maybe more than anything. Do you think the Spurs's Big 3 regrets their decision to leave a bunch of money on the table for a minute? Do you think LeBron regrets sacrificing money to end up in the best basketball situations for himself, in both Miami and Cleveland? He's on top of the basketball world--cemented as one of the greatest ever and the most famous and important athlete in the world--as a result of finding the best basketball situations. Do you think Dwight Howard regrets leaving 30 million and a TV Show on the table to flee Kobe's train-wreck of a team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 In a year with no real favorites, I think Chicago becomes the favorite with Melo. Butler, Melo, Gibson, Noah. Even without any contribution from Derrick Rose, that is a team with three to four All Stars in the starting line up. They'd play their usual hellacious defense and kill teams on the glass + be able to score in crunch time. I think he could have gotten a ring this year in Chicago. Realistically, whose beating that team? Nobody in the East. Probably the Spurs and maybe GS would be the only teams in the West with similar balance. I also think he could have made Dallas the title favorite if he signed there. Dallas is already close, upgrade Parsons's fairly ordinary level of play to Melo and you've got a pretty scary team with the best front-court by a country mile. You're right, it's not certain. But it's also not certain that he couldn't have made as much money elsewhere by taking a one year deal like LeBron. The only thing that is certain is he will never win a ring with the Knicks. All that is fine and dandy. But on the other hand, there is $50 million in guaranteed dollars sitting in a pile on that coffee table. I'm sure you would be the noble champion, taking pay cuts so the team can sign that three point specialist from the Euro-league. I would be in it for the money and the sex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 By the way, what Lebron is doing right now is grabbing the one commodity even more valuable than money - power (followed by a ridiculous amount of money). He's taking a slight risk but what he is doing is waiting for the cap to explode where we can lock down an insane contract AND be the de facto GM of whatever club he winds up with. Lebron is going to own a team within five years of his retirement and he is laying the foundation now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm sure you would be the noble champion, taking pay cuts so the team can sign that three point specialist from the Euro-league. I would be in it for the money and the sex. agree. You worked your entire life. He wants to maximize his earnings. You want to have fun. Who the hell cares about a ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 agree. You worked your entire life. He wants to maximize his earnings. You want to have fun. Who the hell cares about a ring? I mean, I'd want to win games. I don't think I would be Nick Young and JR Smith where as long as I got my 20, I'd be content. But I grew up a Larry Bird fan. That dude won. But that dude squeezed every penny out of the Celtics he could get. If First Take had existed in 1979, Skip Bayless would have been burning an effigy of Bird on tv every day during that contract negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 By the way, what Lebron is doing right now is grabbing the one commodity even more valuable than money - power (followed by a ridiculous amount of money). He's taking a slight risk but what he is doing is waiting for the cap to explode where we can lock down an insane contract AND be the de facto GM of whatever club he winds up with. Lebron is going to own a team within five years of his retirement and he is laying the foundation now. The max contract is structured as a percentage of the cap. So if LeBron had taken a max contract now or next year when the cap is supposed to climb, the contract would have been the same in dollars per year. The difference is now Cleveland can sign him to the fifth year next summer instead of having to settle for four years this summer. That gives you six guaranteed seasons of max deals instead of four. In Melo to Chicago scenario, it would be 6 max seasons instead of 5. Unless you think Melo wouldn't command a five year max from Chicago next summer, but I think it's a very safe bet he would. Or perhaps LeBron is gambling that the players might be able to get rid of the max contract in the next CBA negotiations, so he's happy to take short term deals in the meantime? Those negotiations are a ways down the road though. And I have to think that actually getting rid of max contracts is unlikely. I doubt the players would be willing to give up whatever it would take to get that major concession from the Owners--a concession that wouldn't actually increase the total player's share of the revenue. A concession that would only benefit a tiny percentage of all of the players (and possibly harm a larger percentage of middle class role players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The max contract is structured as a percentage of the cap. So if LeBron had taken a max contract now or next year when the cap is supposed to climb, the contract would have been the same in dollars per year. The difference is now Cleveland can sign him to the fifth year next summer instead of having to settle for four years this summer. That gives you six guaranteed seasons of max deals instead of four. In Melo to Chicago scenario, it would be 6 max seasons instead of 5. Unless you think Melo wouldn't command a five year max from Chicago next summer, but I think it's a very safe bet he would. Or perhaps LeBron is gambling that the players might be able to get rid of the max contract in the next CBA negotiations, so he's happy to take short term deals in the meantime? Those negotiations are a ways down the road though. And I have to think that actually getting rid of max contracts is unlikely. I doubt the players would be willing to give up whatever it would take to get that major concession from the Owners--a concession that wouldn't actually increase the total player's share of the revenue. A concession that would only benefit a tiny percentage of all of the players (and possibly harm a larger percentage of middle class role players). That may all be true. But I think Lebron is playing a different game than anyone else. So advising anyone to follow Lebron's lead in terms of contracts, etc is silly. Melo is not going to end up part owner of the Bulls or Knicks when he retires. Melo is not going to have any say in personell anyhwere. Melo is not going to be able to choose the staff or control the season tickets. Lebron is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 On the max contract I heard that the first year was a percentage and that every subsequent year was a standard increase amount but not tied to the cap. Which may or may not be true because no one really understand how nba contract and cap work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 All that is fine and dandy. But on the other hand, there is $50 million in guaranteed dollars sitting in a pile on that coffee table. I'm sure you would be the noble champion, taking pay cuts so the team can sign that three point specialist from the Euro-league. I would be in it for the money and the sex. Melo is one of the few players that's actually good enough to become an NBA legend and leave a big impact on the history of basketball. That kind of talent is so unbelievably rare. He's one of the two or three greatest scorers of his generation. Think about the millions of kids who grow up playing basketball in this country. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make their high school teams. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make the good AAU teams. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good to make the jump to major division one programs. Now remove all of the players who aren't good enough to get drafted. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make it as a journeyman career NBA player. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make it as like a one or two time AS and a mainstay of a team (Al Horford for example). Now remove all the ones who aren't good enough to make it as a legit superstar with all the accolades (Olympian, perennial All Star, award hardware). What you're left with is the players with the chance to truly climb to the top of the mountain. It's the most infinitesimal percentage of people whoever pick up a basketball. If you possess talent that rare, I think you have to do something truly worthwhile with it. Leverage it for the most accomplishment within your field that you can achieve. It's a shame to waste it otherwise. Don't you get disappointed when your favorite artists sell out and start producing **** to make money? Being an athlete of Melo's caliber is like being an extremely successful and accomplished artist. Only athletes like that perform in what can be boiled down to zero sum competition. There actually is a mountain to climb for them. Plus let's not act like Melo is starving. 200 million in career earnings would get you as much sex and money as anyone would need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 eff that, you take that $50 million. People need to stop being idealistic and be realistic. No one is turning down $50 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 eff that, you take that $50 million. People need to stop being idealistic and be realistic. No one is turning down $50 million. Why not take a one year deal with Chicago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Why not take a one year deal with Chicago? eff that, you take that $50 million. People need to stop being idealistic and be realistic. No one is turning down $50 million. unless you are Lebron, and you can because you have other avenues. Even then, he didnt turn it down either. He wants to recoup in 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 eff that, you take that $50 million. People need to stop being idealistic and be realistic. No one is turning down $50 million. Large sum of money, but there are other guys in the league who have taken less to help their team's chances of winning. It does go both ways, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Melo is one of the few players that's actually good enough to become an NBA legend and leave a big impact on the history of basketball. That kind of talent is so unbelievably rare. He's one of the two or three greatest scorers of his generation. Eh, that ship has probably sailed and even if it hasn't, what obligation does he have to become a quote-unquote NBA legend. He's already a high school legend, college legend, multiple gold medal winner, many time all-star, and gazillionaire. What obligation does he have to become a Moses Malone vagabond trying to find a team that he can win with? Think about the millions of kids who grow up playing basketball in this country. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make their high school teams. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make the good AAU teams. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good to make the jump to major division one programs. Now remove all of the players who aren't good enough to get drafted. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make it as a journeyman career NBA player. Now remove all of the ones who aren't good enough to make it as like a one or two time AS and a mainstay of a team (Al Horford for example). Now remove all the ones who aren't good enough to make it as a legit superstar with all the accolades (Olympian, perennial All Star, award hardware). What you're left with is the players with the chance to truly climb to the top of the mountain. It's the most infinitesimal percentage of people whoever pick up a basketball. Do it for Johnny!! Don't you get disappointed when your favorite artists sell out and start producing **** to make money? Not really. Plus let's not act like Melo is starving. 200 million in career earnings would get you as much sex and money as anyone would need. I just don't like the idea of signaling out individuals and putting my hand in their pocket. I'll talk tax policy and ecnomic inequality all day long. But I'm not going to say, "Hey! You! You need to agree to earn this much!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Anyone see the videos of Kobe ripping his teammates in practice? They are NSFW due to language, but I'm shocked no one has put hands on him. All in all, it's hard to have any sympathy for the guy as he knew exactly what he was getting in to when he signed for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Large sum of money, but there are other guys in the league who have taken less to help their team's chances of winning. It does go both ways, IMO. That's an individual players' choice. Not everyone has the same goals. I really don't like the idea of throwing out moral judgments on players for their personal business decisions. And we almost always do it to players (and generally a certain type of player at that). Where is the Hot Sports Take that Nick Saban has an obligation to himself and the game of football to go back to the NFL and prove that he can win a Super Bowl? Why did we never demand that Dan Marino leave Miami and play of peanuts on a team he can win a ring with? (By the way, we will also kill you if you do this - see Karl Malone). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Here's the thing: the NBA is hard and brutal and is essentially a pecking order. In reality, every team has maybe 7 guys who matter, and it almost always comes down to which team has the best individual player on this particular night. Now, that's not saying that you can't enhance a player or cover up weakness or basically win without the best player. The Spurs do it all the time, but they have maybe the greatest coach in the history of team sports running things (I'm deadly serious about that). The Spurs are the outlier of all outliers. Most of the time it comes down to Lebron versus Durant and whether the team around Durant or Lebron is a better platform to launch that dude. Carmelo seems like a pretty saavy dude. He may have decided, "I need a lot of help to beat Lebron, Durant, or the Spurs machine.....and Chicago ain't it. I'm not running myself into the ground for that maniac and counting on Rose's knees to hold up and still maybe lose in the ECF - where everyone is going to blame me. Not when I can live in New York and get paid like I'm getting paid. F-that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 He made his decision and he has to live with it. Knicks aren't gonna win anything in the next 5 years but money is money Still, I have trouble going with it's $50 million excuse. Melo and his wife are rich as **** right now. He'd be fine "settling" for $70 and there's no way to deny that He was greedy. Simple as that. I'm not mad about it but now he has to live with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Man, I'm not judging ANYONE....all I'm saying is that there are guys who willingly take less money to help their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Melo also wants to win his way, he's like Kobe....just less skilled and unwilling to play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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