***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Destino said:

I disagree.  Very few teams win 60 or more games.  Last year only one managed it.  The last time more than two teams in the league finished with 60+ wins was 2008-09.  Point is 60 wins is a kind of achievement in it's own right.  The Bucks are a one star team, getting to 60 wins with just one star would be a hell of a trick. 

 

I don’t think it’s likely the Bucks get to 60.  I think the Lakers probably add talent before the trade deadline so 55 may not seem as impressive in the second half of the season.

 

To me that Bucks team is well built.  They've got a bunch of good players on it and the roster has been optimized to support Giannis.  And their coach is amazing.

 

This Lakers team is completely slap-dash and the coach is hanging on by a thread.  LeBron has elevated them.  Guys like Lonzo and Kuzma and Ingram are not good players yet.  But they're flashing and LeBron has filled in the cracks so that the team is confident and winning and can play to the strengths of the young guys.

 

If you swapped LeBron and Giannis, the Bucks would definitely win 60 and the Lakers probably would not win 50.

[PeterMP]

D'Angelo Russell might get 50 points against the Sixers tonight, and he isn't even going off from 3.  If you are guard and you have any quickness, when you play the Sixers you are looking at a big night.

 

They have nobody (including Butler) that can defend on the perimeter.

 

But Butler saves the game.

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

[PeterMP]

Yeah,

 

Simmons in the 1/2 court is a huge issue, which is why the inability to play defense and get stops is an issue.  Given the latest Fultz issues, it is hard to believe that trading Simmons and riding with Fultz would have been the right move, but it is pretty clear to me moving on from Simmons early this season or even in the pre-season was the right move.

 

Other thoughts- Boston isn't as good as they appeared last year.  They might not be a 500 team, but they aren't as good as they looked last year, especially Brown and Tatum.  Tatum is not a future MVP candidate.  Irving is warming up on offense and is trying on defense, but that just makes them more stagnant on offense as he'll call his own number more.

 

They can't trade for AD during the season while Irving is on his Rose contract.  He'll have to opt out this summer for a trade to occur.

 

Milwaukee also isn't as good as they appear.  They are better than last year because their defense is better (have talked about Kidd's crazy scheme before), but they are getting career 3 point shooting out of too many people for it to be sustainable.

 

They space the floor well, move the ball well, and Buldozer's scheme gets them good looks from 3, but they won't keep making them at the clip they are, especially when teams lock down on them in the playoffs.  They'll be ripe for a 2nd round upset in the playoffs.

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

Defenses used to play off John Wall like that his first three seasons.  In his second season John only made three three pointers.  Three.  In his third season he only made 12.  Then he learned to shoot and made 100 in his fourth season and defenses stopped leaving him alone at the three point line.

 

It's a mistake to think Ben Simmons today is the player he will always be.  It's a mistake to give up on a freakish physical talent who is good at every part of the game except shooting the three because he can't shoot threes yet.

 

It's a mistake to expect Philly to contend with a bunch of 23 year olds.  They're still years away from being a championship caliber team with a core of Simmons and Embiid.

 

It's also a mistake to pin all of their long term hopes on Joel Embiid, a guy with only 3500 career minutes in the midst of his fifth year in the NBA.  There will come a point in the not too distant future where Philly is Ben Simmons' team.

[PeterMP]

27 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Defenses used to play off John Wall like that his first three seasons.  In his second season John only made three three pointers.  Three.  In his third season he only made 12.  Then he learned to shoot and made 100 in his fourth season and defenses stopped leaving him alone at the three point line.

 

It's a mistake to think Ben Simmons today is the player he will always be.  It's a mistake to give up on a freakish physical talent who is good at every part of the game except shooting the three because he can't shoot threes yet.

 

It's a mistake to expect Philly to contend with a bunch of 23 year olds.  They're still years away from being a championship caliber team with a core of Simmons and Embiid.

 

It's also a mistake to pin all of their long term hopes on Joel Embiid, a guy with only 3500 career minutes in the midst of his fifth year in the NBA.  There will come a point in the not too distant future where Philly is Ben Simmons' team.

 

First, it isn't that he can't shoot 3's.  He can't shot period.   He's a 60% ft shooter.  If anything, he's going backwards from college (a 67% FT shooter in college).  Wall was a 75% FT shooter in college.  Year one in the NBA Wall was a 77% FT shooter.  The next year, he was up to 79%, and then over 80%.

 

This is really Simmons' 3rd year in the league, and his shooting really hasn't gotten any better.  (He played in college, got hurt, but in the pre-season, then was better by in the spring, even though he didn't play at all, so had much of the spring and summer to work on his game.  Plays last year and has another summer to work on his game.)  He's really had 3 springs/summers to work on his game (between college and year one where he got hurt, between year one and 2 (he's really better in the spring), and then last spring/summer.  And he's not gotten any better.

 

Wall was a good shooter and clearly becoming a better shooter early in his career.  If Simmons was shooting even 75% from the line (which would mean he is where Wall was in college), it would be a different story.

 

Obviously, with Embiid there is going to always be a health concern, but Embiid right now is an MVP caliber player.  Simmons is a negative player in the 1/2 court.

 

And that picture doesn't happen if you are 75% FT shooter because, then you have options there.  Simmons won't shoot, but he also won't make plays where he's likely to take contact and get fouled.  Simmons isn't going to drive into that scrum with the idea that he'll draw a foul.

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Defenses used to play off John Wall like that his first three seasons.  In his second season John only made three three pointers.  Three.  In his third season he only made 12.  Then he learned to shoot and made 100 in his fourth season and defenses stopped leaving him alone at the three point line.

 

It's a mistake to think Ben Simmons today is the player he will always be.  It's a mistake to give up on a freakish physical talent who is good at every part of the game except shooting the three because he can't shoot threes yet.

 

It's a mistake to expect Philly to contend with a bunch of 23 year olds.  They're still years away from being a championship caliber team with a core of Simmons and Embiid.

 

It's also a mistake to pin all of their long term hopes on Joel Embiid, a guy with only 3500 career minutes in the midst of his fifth year in the NBA.  There will come a point in the not too distant future where Philly is Ben Simmons' team.

You missing the bigger point.

 

Wall at least shot three-pointers and shot from midrange. Simmons hasn't taken a three-pointer this season and has only taken 26 out of 238 shots from outside of 3 feet.

 

Simmons is a supersized Rondo.

 

Simmons on the court also hurts Embiid as he can only score in the areas Embiid dominates. None of the exciting rookies of last season have taken a step forward as sophomores this season. D'Arron Fox has stepped up tremendously and is looking like an all star candidate in Sacramento after being nothing last year. I say that because Tatum and Mitchell at least have different facets of their games they are trying. Simmons is the exact same player he was at LSU.

 

I would really hesitate giving Simmons the max contract when his time is up. And no, this will never be Ben Simmons team. Its Embiid's team with Butler.

[Mr. Sinister]

Think we all gave that team way too much credit during that gump winning streak last year. 

 

At least as it pretained to future prognosticators 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Renegade7]

A lot of people admitting to overestimating sixers this year also pointed out number of weaker teams they beat during that win streak.  It's like some of yall forget you were right.

[Mr. Sinister]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

A lot of people admitting to overestimating sixers this year also pointed out number of weaker teams they beat during that win streak.  It's like some of yall forget you were right.

 

Lot of people including me pointed it out, but I think even with that realization, everyone looked at them as a team trending up as an immediate future ECF stalwart,  with that trend continuing in '18-19.

 

I wasn't bold enough to go that far (saying they would regress to the mean).

Edited November 26, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Bozo the kKklown]

Sixers made that run last year because they had a lot of shooters.

 

This year it is only Reddick. Embiid is their second best three-point shooter. (or maybe third now with Butler)

[Going Commando]

Wait, are we saying this team is bad now?  They're 14-8 and performing to expectations.

 

The instability in the FO has led to some mistakes but the team is still really rich in top end talent.  Fultz is a bust and they shouldn't have traded Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith, BUT, in defense of that move, Smith is three years younger and has the potential to be an elite perimeter defender.  He might still turn out good.

 

That team has the foundation pieces to play elite defense.  They can go and get shooters.  Wilson Chandler is a good shooter and they can deal Fultz and use the space/rotation spot for acquiring a shooter.

[Bozo the kKklown]

No one said the team is bad.

 

But this team don't look like a title contender.

[Renegade7]

As Wizards fans we should know about having a "core" and what it looks like without the right pieces around it.  Maybe Philly gets those pieces down the road, but that's something only a solid front office can pull off, anyone can hit on a lottery pick or two, we see that all the time

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

No one said the team is bad.

 

But this team don't look like a title contender. 

 

They're not going to be one with a 24 year old Embiid and 22 year old Simmons.  That was never on the table this year, or even for the next couple of years.  Their future is still way off down the road, but they're still good enough now to grow and win games and play meaningful basketball late into the season.

[Bozo the kKklown]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They're not going to be one with a 24 year old Embiid and 22 year old Simmons.  That was never on the table this year, or even for the next couple of years.  Their future is still way off down the road, but they're still good enough now to grow and win games and play meaningful basketball late into the season.

3

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-remain-quiet-contenders-make-their-case-eastern-conference-supremacy

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-grades-76ers-establish-themselves-as-elite-contender-wolves-add-solid-pieces-to-young-core/ 

 

I could find more too.

 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

On 11/25/2018 at 8:34 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

To me that Bucks team is well built.  They've got a bunch of good players on it and the roster has been optimized to support Giannis.  And their coach is amazing.

 

This Lakers team is completely slap-dash and the coach is hanging on by a thread.  LeBron has elevated them.  Guys like Lonzo and Kuzma and Ingram are not good players yet.  But they're flashing and LeBron has filled in the cracks so that the team is confident and winning and can play to the strengths of the young guys.

 

If you swapped LeBron and Giannis, the Bucks would definitely win 60 and the Lakers probably would not win 50.

 

I think if the Lakers win just 50 games, then LeBron gets it.  They haven't made the playoffs since winning 45 games back in 2012-13 and had some really horrible seasons.  They only won 35 games last year and LeBron coming in has completely changed that team (agreeing with everything you said in your post), they win 50+, then he's taken one of the most storied franchises in NBA history out of their 5 year slump.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This year it is only Reddick. Embiid is their second best three-point shooter. (or maybe third now with Butler)

 

This isn't true.  They have plenty of shooters and maybe even more than last year.

 

Shamet, a rookie, is shooting 39% from 3 on 4.8 attempts a game.  That's very good. (and in terms of shooting realistically, easily replaces Covington from last year).

 

Wilson Chandler was hurt at the begining of the year, but he's shooting 36.4% this year and shot 35.8% last year.

 

Muscala was hurt early in the year, but he's shooting 32.4% and shot 37.1% last year.

 

All of them are better than Embiid and likely better than Butler.  And in totality give them about the same quality, if not more, shooting that they had at the end of last year.  They don't have a shooter that plays good defense too, but that was an issue (other than Covington) last year too.

 

(Though, Saric was better than some of the guys they are running out there now too.)

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They're not going to be one with a 24 year old Embiid and 22 year old Simmons.  That was never on the table this year, or even for the next couple of years.  Their future is still way off down the road, but they're still good enough now to grow and win games and play meaningful basketball late into the season.

 

I don't know how you can say that Embiid's age is a limitation to this team.  He's playing like an MVP candidate.  What more do you want out of him?

 

They aren't bad.  They might be the 2nd best team in the ECF, however, they are a team that has limited up side as long as Simmons is starting, especially at the 1.

 

And the Butler trade (for now) didn't really make them a better team.  They now have somebody that can close out close games, which they didn't have before, but their possession to possession defense has gotten worse, which really hurts Simmons utility.

 

(I said when the trade was made Patton is going to have to be a key component of that trade for the Sixers to win that trade.  He's going to have to become at least a meaningful rotational player.)

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

51 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-remain-quiet-contenders-make-their-case-eastern-conference-supremacy

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-grades-76ers-establish-themselves-as-elite-contender-wolves-add-solid-pieces-to-young-core/ 

 

I could find more too.

 

 

All of that talk unrealistically jumped the gun.  No team wins a title when their two guys are as young as Embiid and Simmons.  Jimmy Butler was a hired gun, brought in to help them win in the meantime and keep from falling behind Boston.  This didn't suddenly become his team, nor did he give them the ability to contend.

 

Philly might be able to win the East this year, most of their competition is in a similar boat.  But to think that they ever had a serious chance to beat Golden State or even Houston is to profoundly misunderstand how the NBA works.

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I don't know how you can say that Embiid's age is a limitation to this team.  He's playing like an MVP candidate.  What more do you want out of him?

 

To be better than Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, James Harden. Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, etc.

 

That is what it will take for him to lead an actual contender.  He's not there yet as a player and won't be for years.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

All of that talk unrealistically jumped the gun.  No team wins a title when their two guys are as young as Embiid and Simmons.  Jimmy Butler was a hired gun, brought in to help them win in the meantime and keep from falling behind Boston.  This didn't suddenly become his team, nor did he give them the ability to contend.

 

Philly might be able to win the East this year, most of their competition is in a similar boat.  But to think that they ever had a serious chance to beat Golden State or even Houston is to profoundly misunderstand how the NBA works.

 

To be better than Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, James Harden. Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, etc.

 

That is what it will take for him to lead an actual contender.  He's not there yet as a player and won't be for years.

 

Taking into account impact on the defensive end, he's better than Harden right now.  And he might be better than some of the others, if he was put in a position where he didn't have take so many perimeter shots because the 1 he plays with won't.

 

Swap him in Toronto for Kawhi, I'm not sure that Toronto doesn't actually get better.

 

**EDIT**

That's really why the Butler trade was made.  Embiid is good enough now to be your 1A on a championship level team so it makes sense to start to accelerate the process.

 

And one thing they will need with Embiid is a perimeter player to close out games even when they had a lead.  At the of end of a close game even when they are up, you can't give the ball to Simmons because the other team will just foul him (which is one reason that things would be different if he were a 75% FT shooter), and the likes of Reddick and Covington aren't good enough ball handlers.  They lost a game or 2 early in the year up with leads trying to close out games by giving the ball to Reddick and he turned the ball over.  Butler gives you that perimeter player that can close out a close game.

 

The problem is in doing so they gave up their best defensive perimeter stopper and generally got worse on defense.  Now I suspect they hope that Zhaire Smith will be able to fill in the role as defensive perimeter stopper and they'll be okay.  And if Patton can give them something as a 4/5 defensively then that helps too.

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterMP

[Warhead36]

Philly and Boston proving that you don't crown teams early in this league. Things can change.

[Destino]

 

Ayton had so much promise, but then Collison shook the soul clean out of him.  Luka’s path to RoY just got easier.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

RIP Ayton

[Going Commando]

Just a mundane crossover escape dribble.  What an oaf.