***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Klay is the guy who I’m the least worried about leaving. He says he wants to stay and hasn’t deviated from that. 

[Hersh]

GS trading Durant for Wall makes zero sense for GS. 

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Bottom line, if the Warriors think Durant is going to walk this summer, then their best possible move is to trade him for an All Star player who they think they can extend, or to trade him for one who is on a multi-year deal.  They won't have any cap space this summer without releasing their hold on Klay Thompson, which they won't do.  Otherwise Durant walks for nothing and they don't have the cap space to sign anyone and they're stuck with a massively expensive Steph Curry and Klay Thompson and a rapidly aging Iggy and Draymond as their team moving forward.  Trading Durant to a dead end East team for a season keeps him from threatening you in the postseason and doing it for a perennial All Star means they're still trotting out an AS game line up.  Plus Wall is boys with Cousins so you improve your chances of keeping him this summer too.

 

Wall + ballast (Keef Morris) for Durant is actually a sneaky brilliant trade for the Warriors.  It's a bad trade for the Wizards though because you have to get draft picks in exchange for dealing Wall.  Cap relief and a fun midseed season isn't enough to make it worth our while.  We need assets to rebuild with.

 

You do realize how insane this post is, right? 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Why trade for Wall and that massive contract when his own teammates don’t like him? Warriors aren’t dumb enough to mess with that chemistry. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Going Commando]

Yes can’t touch that perfect Warriors chemistry.  And KD is certainly beloved by his teammates in Golden State.

[StillUnknown]

 

this rookie class is going to be a damn good one

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

He takes too many bad 3’s. 

[Mr. Sinister]

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Yes can’t touch that perfect Warriors chemistry.  And KD is certainly beloved by his teammates in Golden State.

 

There's chemistry (Golden State), and then there's olden time folksy dark alchemy (Washington).....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

13 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Bottom line, if the Warriors think Durant is going to walk this summer, then their best possible move is to trade him for an All Star player who they think they can extend, or to trade him for one who is on a multi-year deal.  They won't have any cap space this summer without releasing their hold on Klay Thompson, which they won't do.  Otherwise Durant walks for nothing and they don't have the cap space to sign anyone and they're stuck with a massively expensive Steph Curry and Klay Thompson and a rapidly aging Iggy and Draymond as their team moving forward.  Trading Durant to a dead end East team for a season keeps him from threatening you in the postseason and doing it for a perennial All Star means they're still trotting out an AS game line up.  Plus Wall is boys with Cousins so you improve your chances of keeping him this summer too.

 

Wall + ballast (Keef Morris) for Durant is actually a sneaky brilliant trade for the Warriors.  It's a bad trade for the Wizards though because you have to get draft picks in exchange for dealing Wall.  Cap relief and a fun midseed season isn't enough to make it worth our while.  We need assets to rebuild with.

 

A team built on ball movement, shooting and defensive chemistry is going to trade for someone who controls the ball, doesn't shoot well, and plays one on one defense well when the mood strikes him? So basically, Steph gets relegated to a corner in a drive and dish Wall-centric offense.

 

You are NOT handing this Wizards' season well at all.

 

(If we are making up Nevernever trades, how does Haywood, Jaylen Brown and that Sacramento pick sound?)

Edited November 20, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[PeterMP]

If anything, the Warriors are going to trade Green.

 

Fultz going to see a shoulder specialist.  What is/has happened to that guy is going to go down as one of the oddest stories in big time sports.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

(If we are making up Nevernever trades, how does Haywood, Jaylen Brown and that Sacramento pick sound?) 

 

For Durant?  Boston can't say yes to that without a commitment from him to sign a long term deal.  If he'd give them that then I'd say it's a win win for both sides.

31 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

If anything, the Warriors are going to trade Green. 

 

Trade Green and KD still walks or only signs a one year deal and they're screwed.

 

I think Green is a GS lifer.  Durant is the mercenary and the outsider.

[PeterMP]

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

For Durant?  Boston can't say yes to that without a commitment from him to sign a long term deal.  If he'd give them that then I'd say it's a win win for both sides.

 

Trade Green and KD still walks or only signs a one year deal and they're screwed.

 

I think Green is a GS lifer.  Durant is the mercenary and the outsider.

 

Why?  They are still in line for a championship this year, and if he signs a 1 year contract, they go into it as favorites next year.  Trading Green doesn't really affect that much at all.

 

Subtracting Durant and inserting Wall this year makes the championship this year more of a question mark this year and into the future.  You win championships while you have a chance.  Being the favorite to win a championship is not "screwed".

 

(especially with Wall's trade kicker)

 

Trading Green just makes more sense in the context that he's had a continual multi-year decline that looks like its continuing.  After next year, bringing Green back for anything more than a vet min contract isn't even going to make sense.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

30 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Why?  They are still in line for a championship this year, and if he signs a 1 year contract, they go into it as favorites next year.  Trading Green doesn't really affect that much at all.

 

 

 

Steve is obsessed with flexibility down the road. It's a very weird thing. I think he would rather be competitive three years from now than win a championship now.

[Going Commando]

The Warriors could win a championship with John Wall instead of Durant.  Curry + Wall + Thompson + Green + Cousins is a friggin AS line up.  And they could probably keep that entire group together long term because Wall and Curry are locked up long term and they have Bird Rights on Thompson and Green.  Cousins might leave for more money.  But he might also decide that he likes GS enough to take a couple of paycuts to stay there before eventually cashing in.  And I think having Wall in the locker room helps them keep him.

 

If you're pretty Durant is going to walk this summer, then you have to think about trading him.  Even the Warriors can't pay the opportunity cost of having a top five player walk for nothing.  If you think you can keep him, then no, you don't trade him.  But if you trade Draymond Green to placate Durant and Durant still walks or only signs a one year extension, you've absolutely destroyed your culture and effectively ended GS's championship window.  You're left with just Curry and Thompson most likely, which is not enough to get it done any more.

 But it's a moot point.  The Wizards would not make a trade to add an expiring contract they have no chance of extending with zero long term assets in exchange for Wall.

 

They'll be looking for a team with draft picks or interesting young players on medium term deals to trade with.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The Warriors could win a championship with John Wall instead of Durant.  Curry + Wall + Thompson + Green + Cousins is a friggin AS line up.  And they could probably keep that entire group together long term because Wall and Curry are locked up long term and they have Bird Rights on Thompson and Green.  Cousins might leave for more money.  But he might also decide that he likes GS enough to take a couple of paycuts to stay there before eventually cashing in.  And I think having Wall in the locker room helps them keep him.

 

If you're pretty Durant is going to walk this summer, then you have to think about trading him.  Even the Warriors can't pay the opportunity cost of having a top five player walk for nothing.  If you think you can keep him, then no, you don't trade him.  But if you trade Draymond Green to placate Durant and Durant still walks or only signs a one year extension, you've absolutely destroyed your culture and effectively ended GS's championship window.  You're left with just Curry and Thompson most likely, which is not enough to get it done any more.

 

They could win a title with Wall.

 

They will win a title with Durant. Giving up a damn near automatic third title in a row and 4 in five years is a big opportunity cost.

 

If Durant walks, he walks, If nothing else, you save the money.

 

If I'm GSW, why do I want to live in a world where I have John Wall's contract on my books in 2023? Does he seem like a dude whose game is going to age well?

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[PeterMP]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The Warriors could win a championship with John Wall instead of Durant.  Curry + Wall + Thompson + Green + Cousins is a friggin AS line up.  And they could probably keep that entire group together long term because Wall and Curry are locked up long term and they have Bird Rights on Thompson and Green.  Cousins might leave for more money.  But he might also decide that he likes GS enough to take a couple of paycuts to stay there before eventually cashing in.  And I think having Wall in the locker room helps them keep him.

 

If you're pretty Durant is going to walk this summer, then you have to think about trading him.  Even the Warriors can't pay the opportunity cost of having a top five player walk for nothing.  If you think you can keep him, then no, you don't trade him.  But if you trade Draymond Green to placate Durant and Durant still walks or only signs a one year extension, you've absolutely destroyed your culture and effectively ended GS's championship window.  You're left with just Curry and Thompson most likely, which is not enough to get it done any more.

 

Could they?  Yes, but I think their chances go down pretty significantly.  It isn't at all clear to me how those pieces actually fit together.  There really is an issue of interior defense on that team and Wall nor Curry have a great history of staying healthy.  Cousins has never played defense in his career that he's going to start now coming off of an ACL injury is unlikely and Green's living off his reputation at this point in time.

 

You trade Green because he's going to get over $18 million next year, and you can get similar if not better production from somebody else and pay them a lot less, which saves you money on the tax, and the chance you might be able to get something for him now vs. in 2 years, it is absolutely going to make sense to let him walk for nothing.

 

I also suspect that other players on Golden State are getting annoyed with him too.

Edited November 20, 2018 by PeterMP

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Also, you're the only guy in the world who would be excited about having Boogie, John Wall, and Draymond Green in the same locker room. Durant seems like a moody, difficult dude, but - at the end of the day - Draymond is not going to knife him.

 

Boogie and John Wall together in Oakland feels like the premise of a Tarantino movie.

[PeterMP]

3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

If I'm GSW, why do I want to live in a world where I have John Wall's contract on my books in 2023? Does he seem like a dude whose game is going to age well?

 

Especially with the trade kicker.

 

Wall is untradable.  Even if I were in GS position, I'd trade Durant for the Wizards next 2 number 1 picks before I traded him for Wall.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

You trade Green because he's going to get over $18 million next year, and you can get similar if not better production from somebody else and pay them a lot less, which saves you money on the tax, and the chance you might be able to get something for him now vs. in 2 years, it is absolutely going to make sense to let him walk for nothing.

 

 

If I'm GSW, I'm standing pat with my roster until the summer. I don't care what their record is, there's not a team in the league who has the firepower to beat them over a 7 game series when they are focused.

 

Durant is a weird guy, and who knows what he wants. I've always suspected the end game for GSW was basically a rebuild around a two-man star combo of Durant/Curry with hopefully Klay as the most over-qualified third wheel ever. As Pat Riley showed in Miami, you can always find guys to play on low ball one-year deals if they feel like you're a path to a ring.

 

I do feel Draymond has had arguably the most difficult job in NBA history the last 4 years. He has to eventually break down physically from it. I would be leary of locking him in long term.

[PeterMP]

5 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

If I'm GSW, I'm standing pat with my roster until the summer. I don't care what their record is, there's not a team in the league who has the firepower to beat them over a 7 game series when they are focused.

 

Durant is a weird guy, and who knows what he wants. I've always suspected the end game for GSW was basically a rebuild around a two-man star combo of Durant/Curry with hopefully Klay as the most over-qualified third wheel ever. As Pat Riley showed in Miami, you can always find guys to play on low ball one-year deals if they feel like you're a path to a ring.

 

I do feel Draymond has had arguably the most difficult job in NBA history the last 4 years. He has to eventually break down physically from it. I would be leary of locking him in long term.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't be in a hurry to trade Green this year.  Just if I were going to look to make a move, that's the move I'd look to make.

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

If Durant walks, he walks, If nothing else, you save the money.

 

You don't save money.  They are making money hand over fist right now.  They have a brand new arena opening up next year.  They do not want to have the dynasty fall apart right as they're making that transition.  If Durant walks they are still capped out in salary commitments.  They'll have cap space again in 2020, assuming Green and Iguodala walk or take paycuts.  But are they still a premier draw at that point?  Curry and Thompson would be 32 and 31.  Curry gets hurt every year.  His contract isn't going to be pretty towards the end either.

 

It won't be Wall because no trade that the Warriors can make would make sense for the Wizards.  But the Warriors need to be exploring Durant trades.  If they can get an All Star on a multi-year commitment (and get Bird Rights for him) back in return for Durant, that has to be considered a win.  If not an AS, young assets like players and picks would be worth it too.  If Boston offered me Brown and Hayward and the pick in exchange for Durant, I would take it.

 

But if your're GS, you would still rather have someone like Wall than a package of lesser players/picks.

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You don't save money.  They are making money hand over fist right now.  They have a brand new arena opening up next year.  They do not want to have the dynasty fall apart right as they're making that transition.  If Durant walks they are still capped out in salary commitments.  They'll have cap space again in 2020, assuming Green and Iguodala walk or take paycuts.  But are they still a premier draw at that point?  Curry and Thompson would be 32 and 31.  Curry gets hurt every year.  His contract isn't going to be pretty towards the end either.

 

It won't be Wall because no trade that the Warriors can make would make sense for the Wizards.  But the Warriors need to be exploring Durant trades.  If they can get an All Star on a multi-year commitment (and get Bird Rights for him) back in return for Durant, that has to be considered a win.  If not an AS, young assets like players and picks would be worth it too.  If Boston offered me Brown and Hayward and the pick in exchange for Durant, I would take it.

 

But if your're GS, you would still rather have someone like Wall than a package of lesser players/picks.

 

 

 

First of all, you are insane.

 

Seocndly, yes, a team with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson coming off 4 titles in 5 years is going to be a pretty good draw as far as a basketball team goes. 

 

Thirdly, you've never explained how Wall fits in from a basketball perspective. I assume he handles the ball and Curry and Thompson just endlessly run through screens. I don't get why you want a guy who needs the ball 70 percent of the team to be effective when you already have the best guard combo in NBA history. And you need to develop this in-season.

 

Just win the title with what you have, dude.

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Wall is untradable.  Even if I were in GS position, I'd trade Durant for the Wizards next 2 number 1 picks before I traded him for Wall. 

 

That is absurd.  A perennial all star PG, in his prime, locked up long term, is a premier asset.  He doesn't have some long history of getting hurt either.  He got injured on a freak collision at the beginning of last season.  Prior to that he played four full seasons without any issues except for a broken hand which kept him out of three playoff games.  In his most recent healthy season he finished tied for 7th in MVP voting with Giannis and one spot behind Curry.

 

I realize dumbass John Wall takes are the flavor of the moment but God Damn.

[PeterMP]

The other thing about trading for Wall is then Green really becomes useless.  If you trade for Wall, then you have a point forward that can't shoot that doesn't have the ball in their hands.

 

You trade Durant, and you've lost your best interior defender who is also a good perimeter defender, and you've taken Green and made him useless.  If they made that trade, their best lineup actually become Wall, Curry, Thompson, Cousins, and Looney.

 

I'm actually not sure that's a championship starting 5.  That team is going to have issues playing defense.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That is absurd.  A perennial all star PG, in his prime, locked up long term, is a premier asset.  He doesn't have some long history of getting hurt either.  He got injured on a freak collision at the beginning of last season.  Prior to that he played four full seasons without any issues except for a broken hand which kept him out of three playoff games.  In his most recent healthy season he finished tied for 7th in MVP voting with Giannis and one spot behind Curry.

 

I realize dumbass John Wall takes are the flavor of the moment but God Damn.

 

A guy that finishes the season, but is playing injured and needs knee surgery, isn't really healthy, and you can't say he hasn't had any issues. 

 

Hey, I played all year and didn't have any issues, but I did need knee surgery in the off season.  No!  You had issues, you were just able to put the surgery off until the end of the season.

 

How many knee surgeries has Wall had now?

Edited November 20, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Seocndly, yes, a team with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson coming off 4 titles in 5 years is going to be a pretty good draw as far as a basketball team goes. 

 

Or it could be a breaking down Steph Curry and a bunch of bad money tied into aging and declining players like Iggy and Green is not that appealing a destination after all.

 

It could be that an MVP caliber Kristaps Porzingis, Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons, or Karl Anthony Towns are bigger draws.  Or a Giannis Antetokounpo or Anthony Davis coming off back to back MVPs are the biggest draw.  Or Damian Lillard or any number of younger players who are coming into their own are legit competition for potential free agents.

 

The fact that Durant is a question mark this summer is proof alone that this GS core is nowhere near the draw that they were three years ago.

 

And another fact of superstar migration is that players try and team up with other players who share their career windows.  We're getting to the point where the decline of the 2007-2009 generation of stars is coming.  There will be a time within the next two or three years when the only good players left from those classes are Curry, Harden, and Durant.