***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Destino]

Lebron doesn't have the defensive impact on a game as a great defensive center. Not that Lebron isn't a good player, just that an effective rim protector has bigger impact than perimeter defense. Just look what Hibbert was able to do to the Heats points in the paint. When he was in there even the great Lebron got nothing but frustration at the rim.

[Going Commando]

I agree, a Big man is going to win DPOY award.  It's basically become the De Facto best big man award now that the primary role of the great big men is defense.  It's a legitimate race now too, you've got Dwight, Duncan, Noah, Hibbert, and Gasol all looking about even in quality based on last season.  Plus Davis is up and coming.  And Noel should be in it eventually if he ever pans out.  Pretty awesome.

 

Kind of a joke that Tyson Chandler won it two years ago... I think that was a bit of an award for his play with the Mavericks, particularly in the postseason.  Also feels like a joke that Chandler is making Team USA over the likes of Hibbert and Brook Lopez.

 

Hibbert was incredible in the postseason.  He's the best player on the Pacers.  I wonder how much of his postseason play will carry over into the regular season?  He was scoring in the playoffs.  He has the ability and he seems to have the blessing of Tim Duncan to be his heir.  The only other guy in the league as big as him is Brook Lopez.  Those guys can dominate if they stay healthy.

Edited October 22, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Big men don't get the ball like they used to.  Perimeter players dominate scoring.  I can't remember if I pointed it out already, but Aldridge was the only big man to break 20 PPG last season, and he is a jump shooter.  It's like your big has to be able to shoot mid range jumpers and 3s now to score in volume.

 

You also see a lot of big men FG %s dropping in relation to former great big men because these guys are shooting so many jumpers now.

 

Individual rebounds per game is also dropping for bigs, very few guys averaged double digit rebounds.  I think this ties into shifting defensive roles as well.

 

Because the big's role has shifted away from offense to defense, this means the best big men are unlikely to factor into MVP voting because that award is heavily based on scoring and on offense.  So DPOY is what they've got.

 

I also think the way we think of "superstars" has to be modified for bigs.  Zach Randolph isn't a superstar big even though he is a 20-10 threat playing on a great team.

 

His game is not the one that powers his team to a ton of wins.  But Marc Gasol is a superstar big, his game makes a huge impact in the W/L column.  He averaged 14 pts and 7.8 rebounds on .496 shooting from the field last season.  Those numbers aren't impressive at all in historicall standards.

 

A big man who is a legit 6-11 to 7' with a big body that can play in space, control the paint, protect the rim, play high quality man defense on bigs, and play great PnR D, but also do a few things really well on offense so as not to be a self check--this is a superstar in their effect on wins and losses.  

 

By this definition, Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Tim Duncan, and Roy Hibbert were all superstars last season.  They had an equivalent impact on team wins as Kobe/Westbrook/LeBron/Wade/Melo/Durant/Paul, etc.

 

Once you accept that, you understand how the Bulls can lead the league in winning % the previous two years with "only" one superstar in Derrick Rose.  You understand how "no superstar" constructions in Memphis and Indiana were so damn good.  And you understand how the Spurs can win 70% of their games every year despite the fact they haven't had a top 5 player in a long time.

 

But I think the big has to legitimately be an elite defender and I'd stress that he needs some offensive skills that go beyond just catching the ball at the basket and dunking it.  He needs a mid range jumper like Noah and Gasol and Duncan have.  He needs to be a post passer like them.  Or he needs something like a powerful post game like Hibbert has.

[RonArtest15]

If D12 is healthy/motivated, it's his award to lose.  I've got no argument for a 3, even as good as Lebron, winning the award when up against premier 4/5's like Howard, KG, Duncan, etc.  A lot of things have to go Lebron's way for him to win it.  However, I think he's an elite defender who can change the landscape of a game due to who he's matched up against.  Yes, there are guys who protect the paint at an elite level, but Lebron's versatility at 6'8" 270, to me, is unmatched.  Case in point, when he put the clamps on D.Rose a few years back in the playoffs.  He CAN win the award.  I wouldn't be shocked if it happened. 

[Ozymandias]

LeBron's comments don't make any sense to me.KG and Pierce were traded...Allen left on his own terms. I'm sure Paul Pierce would've liked to retire a Celtic, so it's slightly different.

 

KG and Pierce contracts had a No trade clause i believe. So they had to sign off in order to be traded. Which they did do, and thus, were traded. 

If D12 is healthy/motivated, it's his award to lose.  I've got no argument for a 3, even as good as Lebron, winning the award when up against premier 4/5's like Howard, KG, Duncan, etc.  A lot of things have to go Lebron's way for him to win it.  However, I think he's an elite defender who can change the landscape of a game due to who he's matched up against.  Yes, there are guys who protect the paint at an elite level, but Lebron's versatility at 6'8" 270, to me, is unmatched.  Case in point, when he put the clamps on D.Rose a few years back in the playoffs.  He CAN win the award.  I wouldn't be shocked if it happened. 

 

I agree, I just dont see LeBron winning both MVP and DMVP. I think its one or the other for him, unless he has a phenomenal year. 

[DM72]

Because they're taking a big dump on the league by intentionally putting an awful, uncompetitve team on the court.  You're not supposed to try to lose, certainly not before the season even begins.

How can you say they're "intentionally" putting an awful team on the court? I just think they're a horrible team.

[Ozymandias]

On a side note, would it not be easier just to have "The NBA Thread" instead of having to renew it every year? I tried finding this thread a number of times but couldnt seem to get it, even with the search function. I thank whoever bumped this to the front page.

[CrypticVillain]

I think Lebron could win both. I doubt if he does, but still...

 

My playoff predictions
West:

Rockets

Clippers

Warriors

Grizzlies

Thunder

Spurs

Nuggets

Mavericks

 

East:

Heat

Pacers

Bulls

Knicks

Brooklyn

Detroit

Wizards

Cleveland

[Mr. Sinister]

On a side note, would it not be easier just to have "The NBA Thread" instead of having to renew it every year? I tried finding this thread a number of times but couldnt seem to get it, even with the search function. I thank whoever bumped this to the front page.

 

It's always good to do a new one every year I think, because it used to be that mega threads would start to have issues. Btw, whether you are a fellow Heat fan, or an admirer of Lebron, good luck here come playoff time. I probably won't be posting in here much anymore because I don't like having to torture myself, listening to idiots either take the tired, rehashed shots at the Heat, or Miami in general that I'm sure you're aware of, or constantly ****ing and moaning their lungs out over every call.

Most of them don't come around until playoff time, but I'm pretty much done.

 

Not sure what to expect from Miami this year. I think an ECF is in the cards, but I don't know about the Finals. The competition has gotten tougher every year, and every year, all the guys put on more and more mileage. I think Indy (gold swagger and all) will probably get the one seed. I hope Greg Oden's corpse can at least grab some rebounds, and keep us from getting ****slapped in the paint. We'll see what happens with Beasley but I'm not fairly confident that he can do anything of note. if he can, I'll take it.

 

Whatever happens, I'll enjoy this season and worry about the offseason/contract situations when it gets here.

[CrypticVillain]

Btw, whether you are a fellow Heat fan, or an admirer of Lebron, good luck here come playoff time. I probably won't be posting in here much anymore because I don't like having to torture myself, listening to idiots either take the tired, rehashed shots at the Heat, or Miami in general that I'm sure you're aware of, or constantly ****ing and moaning their lungs out over every call.

Most of them don't come around until playoff time, but I'm pretty much done.

All I heard was... DEFEAT THE HEAT!!!

 

Seriously though, I don't hate on Lebron as much as I used to. All I wanted him to do was improve his game, and he did that and he is the two-time reigning NBA MVP, NBA Finals MVP, and NBA Champion. I would look dumb criticizing him any further...

[Big Weirdo]

Nerlens Noel is not expected to play this season.

This season the 76ers have one of the worst rosters I've ever seen. There is a legit chance they go 10-72.

They're going to have like two, maybe three players worthy of playing more than 10 minutes a game in the NBA right now. I've never seen such a baldly anticompetitive strategy from a team before the season even starts.

They don't deserve Wiggins. I hope Toronto dumps Rudy Gay and deals DeRozan and wins the lottery and gets Wiggins.

Dark times for the Philadelphia sports fan.

Oh well.

[Going Commando]

How can you say they're "intentionally" putting an awful team on the court? I just think they're a horrible team.

 

They dealt away their good players and picked up an injured rookie they knew wouldn't play very much this year, if at all.

[Mr. Sinister]

I still can't wrap my brain around getting rid of Jrue Holiday. That team is going to be some garbage.

[DM72]

I still can't wrap my brain around getting rid of Jrue Holiday. That team is going to be some garbage.

Jrue is very good, but let's not act as if he was gonna bring Philly a ring anytime soon.

They dealt away their good players and picked up an injured rookie they knew wouldn't play very much this year, if at all.

The way the NBA is set up, can you really blame any bad team for tanking a season to get a once an every 10 year player? If this kid Wiggins is as good as everyone says he is, as a Sixers fan, I'm hoping we're all-time bad. Edited October 22, 2013 by DM72

[Destino]

Dark times for the Philadelphia sports fan.

Oh well.

 

Not 76ers handle it right and get a little lucky.  Nerlens wasn't going to do a damn thing for the team this season anyway, he's a project that has no offense to speak of and lacks the bulk to be much of a defender, especially while worrying about that knee.  If the 76ers are smart once he heals (around February?) they'll find a gym and a big man coach and lock them in for the remainder of the season.  None of this meaningless "travel with the team" garbage.  By the time next season starts he could be better and bigger than he ever would have this year, even without the knee injury.  If at the same time they get a good pick in this super talented draft, this year could end up setting the team up for the next decade.  

 

As a wizards fan I hope you ****s get the 5th pick at best.  But hey, you never know.  

Edited October 22, 2013 by Destino

[Predicto]

Because they're taking a big dump on the league by intentionally putting an awful, uncompetitve team on the court.  You're not supposed to try to lose, certainly not before the season even begins.

 

Tell that to the Indy Colts  

 

Amazing how all this defensive talent just appeared in Indy the year after they tanked.  

[Big Weirdo]

Not 76ers handle it right and get a little lucky.  Nerlens wasn't going to do a damn thing for the team this season anyway, he's a project that has no offense to speak of and lacks the bulk to be much of a defender, especially while worrying about that knee.  If the 76ers are smart once he heals (around February?) they'll find a gym and a big man coach and lock them in for the remainder of the season.  None of this meaningless "travel with the team" garbage.  By the time next season starts he could be better and bigger than he ever would have this year, even without the knee injury.  If at the same time they get a good pick in this super talented draft, this year could end up setting the team up for the next decade.  

 

As a wizards fan I hope you ****s get the 5th pick at best.  But hey, you never know.  

 

If you talk to anyone who's a Philadelphia sports fan you pretty much will get consensus that the 76ers are the ones who have the best chance of being good again solely because of Hinkie and what he's trying to do.  I'm not much of a basketball guru so I only enjoy the game on a surface level really but from what I can tell he's doing what needs to be done to turn them around.

 

On a side note Nerlens looks like Kid from Kid N Play.  For that alone I want him to succeed. 

[Ozymandias]

It's always good to do a new one every year I think, because it used to be that mega threads would start to have issues. Btw, whether you are a fellow Heat fan, or an admirer of Lebron, good luck here come playoff time. I probably won't be posting in here much anymore because I don't like having to torture myself, listening to idiots either take the tired, rehashed shots at the Heat, or Miami in general that I'm sure you're aware of, or constantly ****ing and moaning their lungs out over every call.

Most of them don't come around until playoff time, but I'm pretty much done.

 

Oh I know, ive been following this board for years. Those people that use to argue about about how LeBron wouldnt amount to anything or wouldnt win anything, no longer even post in this thread lol

 

Im a wizards fan, but have followed LeBron since he was in high school. So i guess you could say im a Heat fan also? But not really, i dont even watch the games if LeBron doesnt play.

 

Other than that, I think if Oden can be even 50% healthy, to get boards and easy put backs, barring any injuries to anyone, I dont see anyone beating the heat. They've come back stronger than last season.

[Going Commando]

Tell that to the Indy Colts  

 

Amazing how all this defensive talent just appeared in Indy the year after they tanked.  

 

Yeah the Colts tanked like hell, which actually works as planned in the NFL without the lottery.  But single players don't necessarily change franchises as much as they do in the NBA.  I feel like Indy should suffer some Karmic consequences for that brazen tanking job.

 

The Wizards tanked without ever intending to for years.  We were just awful.  Maybe we still are.  That's what I believe you should have to go through if you're going to luck into a franchise changing talent with a high draft pick.

 

Tanking is gaming the system.  I understand why it's done.  Doesn't change the fact that it's anticompetitive and violates the fundamental principle of sports--to try and win.  I understand but don't really like it when teams do it with 20 games left, they're hopelessly out of the playoffs, and they sit their best player, who may or may not have some nagging injury or other.  It screws over the fans who actually pay to see those games.  But to go into a whole season in tank mode?

 

My one consolation is that tanking also has a way of spiraling out of control and getting people fired and years later you're just bad and you've forgotten what the original vision for the rebuild was.  Especially in the NBA, where it is really really hard to get and keep a team full of young players together long enough for them to eventually pan out.

 

Also, if Philly puts the all time worst team out on the court this season, whatever the intent, that's a huge permanent stain on their franchise's legacy.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

How can you say they're "intentionally" putting an awful team on the court? I just think they're a horrible team.

 

They traded a young all-star for a draft pick that they used to take a player that they do not intend to use this year.

 

The team spent no money in free agency despite being $12 million under the salary floor.

 

They made nearly all their off-season moves before they hired a coach, because it didn't matter what the plan was. They had no intention of finding players to fit the coach's strategy.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 

Also, if Philly puts the all time worst team out on the court this season, whatever the intent, that's a huge permanent stain on their franchise's legacy.

 

Is it? If they get Wiggins and have three all-stars on the court during the ECF in four years, I doubt anyone even remembers.

 

The 76ers went 9-73 in '73. Is that what people remember about the team? Or do they remember Doctor J, Moses, Barkley, and Iverson?

 

The Spurs are the model NBA franchise of the last 15 years because they went through a ridiculous tank job to get in position to get Duncan. Does anyone ever discuss that? Is that a stain on the franchise?

Jrue is very good, but let's not act as if he was gonna bring Philly a ring anytime soon.

The way the NBA is set up, can you really blame any bad team for tanking a season to get a once an every 10 year player? If this kid Wiggins is as good as everyone says he is, as a Sixers fan, I'm hoping we're all-time bad.

 

I don't blame anyone. The only way teams not named the Heat or Lakers can rebuild in the NBA is by getting really bad and nailing a lottery pick.

[CrypticVillain]

 

 

 

 

Man, if Greg Oden can stay healthy(BIG IF) and can contribute, the Heat would be very very heavy favorites to win it again... Right?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If Oden could give them 15 to 20 effective minutes a night, it would make them a different team.

 

I just think that his knees are actually worse than we suspect they are (and we all suspect that they are a torture porn movie). I would love to see him become an effective NBA player, but I think there is a better chance that this experiment is over by Christmas.

[Sticksboi05]

I agree, a Big man is going to win DPOY award.  It's basically become the De Facto best big man award now that the primary role of the great big men is defense.  It's a legitimate race now too, you've got Dwight, Duncan, Noah, Hibbert, and Gasol all looking about even in quality based on last season.  Plus Davis is up and coming.  And Noel should be in it eventually if he ever pans out.  Pretty awesome.

 

Kind of a joke that Tyson Chandler won it two years ago... I think that was a bit of an award for his play with the Mavericks, particularly in the postseason.  Also feels like a joke that Chandler is making Team USA over the likes of Hibbert and Brook Lopez.

 

Hibbert was incredible in the postseason.  He's the best player on the Pacers.  I wonder how much of his postseason play will carry over into the regular season?  He was scoring in the playoffs.  He has the ability and he seems to have the blessing of Tim Duncan to be his heir.  The only other guy in the league as big as him is Brook Lopez.  Those guys can dominate if they stay healthy.

 

I disagree, I think Paul George is the best player.  He has the athleticism to play great D and he is a very versatile offensive player.  I think he is going to develop into a near elite player this season.  When the clock hits 5 minutes left to go in the 4th and you need aguy to take over, Paul George is getting the ball not Hibbert.  Hibbert though, completely changed that Heat series which they could've easily won if he hadn't been taken out.

 

Two coaches making bonehead decisions to keep premier big men out of the game in the last 30 seconds saved Miami this past postseason.  I don't think Miami's road to the Finals is as easy as some are making it out to be.  They won by the skin of their teeth last season. The Pacers can beat them in a series, that we know.  The Bulls, don't know if they have the depth but if Rose is healthy, we'll see.

I don't blame anyone. The only way teams not named the Heat or Lakers can rebuild in the NBA is by getting really bad and nailing a lottery pick.

 

100% agree, it's the NBA.  You have to tank.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Sticksboi05

[Mr. Sinister]

"Shouldn't have won." 

 

If you look hard enough,no team should have ever won anything, in any sport, ever...