***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

Am I the only one getting sick of all these ex-Lakers talking negatively about Howard because he left?

 

When Dwight tries to pull **** like this, they can talk negatively about him all they want.

 

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9468452/dwight-howard-wanted-end-kobe-bryant-era-los-angeles-lakers

 

He tried to get the Lakers management to amnesty Kobe, Dwight said it was either him or Kobe.

So he tried to pull a Kobe on Kobe? Edited July 11, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Parlett316]

Kobe's finished.  You have to move on from old busted talent.

[DCranon21]

My question is how is a player like Kobe finished and he still averaged over 27 this year before going down to an Achilles injury? Some of you guys don't understand that Kobe demands the ball, and can actually move without the ball and create his own shot. That's his attitude and his game. Lots of players in the league still can't create their own shots. Also that stunt Dwight and his camp pulled proves to me he's nothing but a big baby. Lakers won't amnesty a Laker legend. He will retire in LA. 

[Going Commando]

Yep, Kobe will retire in LA. But he'll also never come close to contending again and LA is just going to have to suck it up and wait for him to retire before they can move on. They're in a really bad spot with him.

I think just about everyone but Kobe realizes the time has past when you could build a contender around Kobe. The Lakers have no avenues for improvement that match the time frame of his career any longer. Their only realistic hope is to tank and try and get a very high draft pick and find their next franchise player that way. But that won't help Kobe win anything in the next three years.

His contract is a hindrance now and the new one will be too unless he takes a huge reduction in salary. Like cutting his cap number by more than half. He's coming off an extremely serious injury. He's a difficult teammate who other alpha stars do not want to play with. And he says he's not going to take a pay cut next year? He can't accept/perform a diminished role?

Meanwhile, KG and Duncan took pay cuts and accepted/performed diminished roles to help their teams win and transition into the next era. And Dirk is going to be doing it next summer. Nash did it. Kidd did it. Those are Kobe's peers.

I think it's fascinating. Kobe has always been so much more high maintenance than all of those guys and it's hurt his team at times, including now. His teams are never just about basketball and they have never, ever been greater than the sum of their parts. I doubt he could have done more to alienate Dwight from the get go. I don't think Kobe could accept that Dwight was his new meal ticket and his only shot at another ring was to do whatever it took to get Dwight happy and rolling and established in LA. Now, all Kobe "It's my team" Bryant is playing for is money and volume scoring records.

My guess is that, from here on out, Kobe's going to continue to amaze us with his incredible durability and high volume scoring while also playing amazingly selfish basketball. 2011-2012 all over again. He'll be mentally counting off the points to 38,387 after every made basket while the Lakers toil away to try and win the 8th seed.

Edited July 12, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Kobe's cap number for 2013/2014 is $30,453,000.

I'm not even sure how you can get a number that high under the CBA rules on max contracts and raises. He signed the extension in 2010, so it has to be some absurd old CBA structure. That's a ruinous number.

Edited July 12, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Destino]

If Kobe wants another ring he'll have to leave LA and take a pay cut. He should be begging to be amnestied if you think about it. It's the only way hell get 30 million AND play for a contender next season. The Lakers scare no one. They aren't the best team in LA, by a wide margain, let alone the western conference. Kobe should have gotten amnestied, wished Howard well, and signed a min deal with the Pacers or Thunder. Either of those teams with Kobe could give the Heat a run for their money. I don't think he'd fit in Pop's philosophy so the Spurs would be out.

[DCranon21]

McQueen, that was under the old CBA. No player now will see that type of number again. 

 

Now on to after this season for the Lakers. This season is a wash. They are signing nothing but one year deals, because they want to be in the running for the 2014 FAs. Do I think they have a chance for Lebron, not at all. Melo, possible. Kevin Love, if he opts out, and wants to get out of Minny.

 

Kobe can still sign for 20 million, but he has to take the vet minimum in 2014, and then he can see the max for 2015 without it actually hurting the Lakers. I feel he does have 2 more years, as he won't leave LA. I read it someone today that he can take the league minimum, and get the max in 2015. Let me find it. 

[DM72]

If Kobe wants another ring he'll have to leave LA and take a pay cut. He should be begging to be amnestied if you think about it. It's the only way hell get 30 million AND play for a contender next season. The Lakers scare no one. They aren't the best team in LA, by a wide margain, let alone the western conference. Kobe should have gotten amnestied, wished Howard well, and signed a min deal with the Pacers or Thunder. Either of those teams with Kobe could give the Heat a run for their money. I don't think he'd fit in Pop's philosophy so the Spurs would be out.

Come on Destino. Kobe's a Lakers for life. No way he leaves.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I think the Lakers tank this year(not intentionally) all the while letting Kobe shoot as much as he wants when he comes back. The Lakers have one goal and that is to trim salary so they will likely pick up as many expiring contracts and one year deals as they can. 

 

Lebron won't come at all. I could see Melo coming to LA though. He loves the big market which is why he wanted to go to NY and he and Kobe are pretty close. If there is anyone that Kobe would welcome to usher in the new era/pass the torch it would be Melo. That would be a start and there have been rumors for a couple years now that Love would want to go to LA. Melo can see the writing on the wall in NY I think. The Knicks are a 5 seed at best. 

The Lakers could still do some things with that huge FA class looming but I doubt they will pull anything smart off though simply because they have no idea what they are doing anymore under Kid Buss. 

[DCranon21]

That's the problem, Jim Buss. He is too arrogant to even know that he can't run the team. It was his daddy's dying wish that he ran the team, and he's running it alright, running it down the hole. It was rumored he was going to fire Mike D'Antoni, but when the Lakers went 28-12, he changed his mind after his sister and brothers told him to do that. He was going to, but that run happened. It's a mess right now in LA, and in order for them to right this ship, he would have to let Jeanie Buss run basketball ops and he takes a back seat. But good luck with that. 

[davidterzian8]

 

Stumbled upon this. Might give Laker fans like me a laugh

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

He's just mad that he left and the Lakers are a sinking ship.

[Destino]

He's just mad that he left and the Lakers are a sinking ship.

 

They have a chance to do something in 2014-15 when they have a ton of cap space.  Right now they only have Nash's 9 million, 2nd round rookie Ryan Kelly, and someone named Robert Sacre.  If they fail to do so the Laker's will be the new Mavs. 

 

[davidterzian8]

He's just mad that he left and the Lakers are a sinking ship.

Actually most laker fans arent that mad. I would have rather had him then lost him but its not that bad. Watching every game he played this year revealed all his effort and character flaws. Not to mention his terrible back to the basket game.

[DCranon21]

He's just mad that he left and the Lakers are a sinking ship.

 

They have a chance to do something in 2014-15 when they have a ton of cap space.  Right now they only have Nash's 9 million, 2nd round rookie Ryan Kelly, and someone named Robert Sacre.  If they fail to do so the Laker's will be the new Mavs. 

 

 

Destino, I'm going out on a limb here, but I think this is what they will do for the 2014-15 season. They will decline the team option on Ryan Kelly. He will sign a 2 or 3 year deal, but have a team option in the second year. They won't pick it up. Sacre is on a one year deal right now, so he will be off the books. Next is Nash. Nash has 9 million remaining when the 14-15 season starts. So they will most likely look at the stretch provision for him. Now I'm not sure if he retires, does he sacrifice all of his money that would be due to him, I can't remember. But if they use that provision on him, then they will only owe 3 million for 3 years. So in reality, they will have 3 million on the books. Also they won't be repetitive luxury tax offenders(they are looking to move Hill and Blake, because of the tax hit they will receive). Right now, it's about getting below the tax threshold, as they owed the most money for the tax penalty. I think they will make major moves the season after this one. It's all about the one year deals and just going out and winning as much as they can. I don't see them making the playoffs this season. 

[Going Commando]

He's just mad that he left and the Lakers are a sinking ship.

Actually most laker fans arent that mad. I would have rather had him then lost him but its not that bad. Watching every game he played this year revealed all his effort and character flaws. Not to mention his terrible back to the basket game.

Dwight is still the best center in the league by a good margin, one of few franchise big men out there. That fan should direct his anger and frustration at the Lakers FO. It wasn't a mistake to trade for Dwight because they didn't really lose anything in the deal. The mistake was in creating such a toxic environment that resulted in Dwight actually waling away from 30 million dollars just to get away from them. From the day he arrived, they couldn't possibly have done more to screw things up.

I think the Lakers FO and fans have a false sense of the draw their franchise has for stars and FAs now. They've gone from the organization that uses the rest of the league as a farm system to the only organization that's ever had a player turn down 30 million dollars to get away. They're dysfunctional.

[pjfootballer]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

[Going Commando]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

Yep. You'd think Dwight would actually get some credit for the decision from the media and from fans. He didn't host some sort of TV special like LeBron did. And he made the move purely off basketball reasons. I think that's commendable. Everyone knows Houston was a much better situation for Dwight and all LA would have done with him basketball-wise was waste his best years.

For once, it truly wasn't about the money for an athlete. He took a pay cut to compete. And not in the way that LeBron, Bosh, and Wade did, where they left a million or so in annual salary on the table. He basically spent 30 million dollars to make this happen. Houston can't offer him a six year deal to say thanks after this one is up. That money is gone forever.

I'm not 100% sure about the baseball guys, but I think no pro athlete has ever walked away from that kind of money to try and win a championship before. What happens if Houston never wins one? What if they don't even really come that close? Talk about a decision that could haunt you for a long time.

Edited July 15, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[JoeWolf990]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

he isnt getting any flak especially compared to what Lebron got. And Dwight did a lot more damage than Lebron did.

 

He deserves it to an extent, but going to Houston is a better move than LA. Going to Golden State would have been the perfect move for him. He and his lack of post moves would eat well with those shooters in Golden State.

[daveakl]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

It's spill over from the crap he did with Orlando.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

Actually most laker fans arent that mad. I would have rather had him then lost him but its not that bad. Watching every game he played this year revealed all his effort and character flaws. Not to mention his terrible back to the basket game.

 

Dwight is still the best center in the league by a good margin, one of few franchise big men out there. That fan should direct his anger and frustration at the Lakers FO. It wasn't a mistake to trade for Dwight because they didn't really lose anything in the deal. The mistake was in creating such a toxic environment that resulted in Dwight actually waling away from 30 million dollars just to get away from them. From the day he arrived, they couldn't possibly have done more to screw things up.

I think the Lakers FO and fans have a false sense of the draw their franchise has for stars and FAs now. They've gone from the organization that uses the rest of the league as a farm system to the only organization that's ever had a player turn down 30 million dollars to get away. They're dysfunctional.

 

I'd argue something a little different.

 

For the 2012/2013 season, there were no bigs playing at a franchise level.  Maybe Dwight could improve enough to become that in Houston, but he definitely wasn't going to ever be that in LA.  Last season was so bad for bigs, that the two teams who made it to the Finals did so because of small ball.

[pjfootballer]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

he isnt getting any flak especially compared to what Lebron got. And Dwight did a lot more damage than Lebron did.

 

He deserves it to an extent, but going to Houston is a better move than LA. Going to Golden State would have been the perfect move for him. He and his lack of post moves would eat well with those shooters in Golden State.

I guess because he "shunned" LA, the media is all over him for not staying, but he never really was comfortable there.  Golden State would have been a good place also. 

[Going Commando]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

he isnt getting any flak especially compared to what Lebron got. And Dwight did a lot more damage than Lebron did.

 

He deserves it to an extent, but going to Houston is a better move than LA. Going to Golden State would have been the perfect move for him. He and his lack of post moves would eat well with those shooters in Golden State.

No way. Dwight didn't come close to doing the damage LeBron did. He didn't leave a franchise that had been building around him and catering to his every whim for seven years in a lurch. He didn't turn a 60 win, best record in the NBA team into one of the worst teams in NBA history that set a record for worst losing streak ever the next season. LA still has Kobe, Nash, and Gasol, and they've got no long term cap commitments at all. He didn't deal a blow to LA's economy like LeBron did in Cleveland. He didn't abandon a city famous for being a hapless and beaten down sports town, a city where he was the hometown hero and the best thing to happen to them in sports since Jim Brown.

And most of all, he didn't host a half our TV special to shamelessly promote himself and publicly spurn and humiliate the city that worshiped him. And he didn't follow that up with a ridiculous WWE style pep rally where he predicted winning 8+ championships. LeBron spent the summer of 2010 doing basically everything he could to make the rest of the country hate him.

The basketball world loved LeBron before the summer of 2010. He was the golden boy of the 4 letter network. He got a free pass from the media in general even though he'd done so many obnoxious things before he even set foot in the NBA, like anointing himself King James and getting a gigantic tattoo across his back that reads "Chosen 1." The only people who hated him were Wizards fans, the same kind of very specific hate Dallas fans have for Dwyane Wade.

[Going Commando]

Not sure why the media is giving Howard so much flack. Houston is in a much better position to compete then LA is. The Lakers are old, injured and have no talent in the pipeline.

It's spill over from the crap he did with Orlando.

I don't hold anything in Orlando against him. I don't think he did that franchise wrong at all. He picked up his option to help them out and they built an awful supporting cast around him. Then he gave them the opportunity to trade him. So they wouldn't be left with nothing when he hit UFA. Now they've got some nice young pieces to speed up their rebuild like Tobias Harris and Nikola Vucevic.

Otis Smith was a horrible GM and made some horrible decisions that basically ensured Dwight would leave because they could never hope to built a contender around him. Terrible contract for Hedo Turkoglu after they bungled his situation a year or two before. Terrible contract for JJ Redick. Terrible contract for Jason Richardson. Utterly inexcusable trade for Gilbert Arenas. Bad contract for Jameer Nelson.

Dwight loved Orlando, I bet he'd still be there if their FO had been even moderately competent. Otis Smith was probably the worst GM in the NBA. And I think the FO showed a lot of pettiness in how they tried to smear Dwight and paint themselves as victims, leaking all kinds of info about him to make him look bad. It pissed Dwight off and he pointed out how nobody from the Magic even checked on him after his injury and his surgery--this from an organization that claimed they were doing everything in their power to convince him to stay. The Magic organization has a shady reputation among players IMO, and the town can be pretty ****ty to athletes. A lot of the same kind of drama happened to Shaq back in the 90's and it poisoned him against the franchise and the city.

[pjfootballer]

Maybe they should move Orlando to Seattle.