Larry Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Agreed, Jumbo. I think there are logical reasons for supporting the name. (Every argument I make in support of that goal, of course, falls into that category.) Complaining about "PC" (or Democrats, or Obama, or the ACLU) isn't one of them. (Me, I keep thinking that "90% of Natives say it isn't offensive" ought to end the discussion, right there. But it doesn't seem to.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Anyone else getting this kind of stuff in your travels? Of course, I'd figure such would be pretty related to various demographics of your local area. Fortunately, I run into plenty of non-whacked people who support us, too. I have a little bit, but it's not rampant. Normally I just say that if the name changes, I won't lose sleep over it. I usually stay away from getting into drawn out debates, discussing my feelings on the matter (depending on the level of asshole I hear in their voices), so the argument dies quicker. I'm of the opinion that, in person, people are less likely to call me a racist to my face because I cheer for the team, and play games...Because that's just dumb, and people tend to guard their true feelings on various topics (to an extent) unless someone is in lockstep with them, so they wouldn't dare push the issue. What has increasingly annoyed me is the "Bleedin' hearts/pc" issue that this has turned into. Though the majority (certainly not all) of my beliefs and opinions are more left oriented, I have a fairly high amount of distaste for politics, and the parties in general, mainly the far right and far left respectively. I don't like defending an opinion alongside of people who I've always viewed as consistent idiots (though I don't defend it in the same vein that they do). I don't like defending an opinion alongside of people who seem to see the word "PC" in their sleep, constantly complaining about it, as if a giant P and C are going to show up. tear their houses down, and carry them off. I've always paid close attention to people who talked like that, whether here or in real life, and most of the time, I find that they only feel that way towards issues that are convenient to them, which is typically what you see throughout history. People always want to pound the table for various issues pertaining to them, and then when it comes to issues for others, they selfishly and ignorantly turn a blind eye. Basically, it all just makes me feel very dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yeah, it all sucks, and we are in much agreement, Sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 That will never happen. We can chop all we want to Taking a page from jumbos comments, that's the kind of support that won't do our cause any good. And I felt that way long before I disliked the braves (which is recently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 It does seem like it's turning into a political thing, the whole "name change issue". Makes me sick. As it stands now it seems to me like the usual liberals (media, Obama, civil rights folks) are pro-name change and the usual conservatives are anti-name change. Aside from this board which is mostly anti-name change for obvious reasons it seems to be going right down party lines as far as people's stance on the issue. Sheep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 For the record, I had the "over" on how many times this bit was gonna pop up in this thread. yeah but who's going to read all of this to see. I thought it was funny and wanted to share. I figured it was in here going to read it all. somewhere, but wan't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 so does anybody know who the asshole reporter was that asked Shanahan what he would say to the Colorado Natives about the name in his post game press conference? Want proof that the media is trying to bully the organization into changing the name...look no further. The man's team just lost the game in a 4th quarter meltdown, and he thinks that was the appropriate time to ask that question? Thankfully, Shanahan is far too professional to comment in the manner he should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 With all this name change suggesting stuff going around, they need to change it to the Masturbators. This team is constantly beating itself... I made this joke plenty of times before the name debate, but I think after today's game, I should say it again... And I don't think I am breaking rule 13 : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 somebody should ask Rob Parker if he thinks that Natives who support the name are "cornball" Natives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Changer Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 "Braves" is the only name I would be okay with.....at least it is part of the history. I am all for this...I can even live with the Royals and Warriors. Snyder should remove this black cloud from over the team's head because its only going to get worse. They asked Shanahan about it last night after the loss to the Broncos. This will be a reoccurring theme until it changes. It is not fair to the players and coaches; however, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Point of contention. The court cases have not been going ON for decades. Over decades they have brought a number of court cases, and they have lost all of them because they can't present the evidence needed to prove the offensive nature of the name. Every single time. they don't get thrown out because judges don't like them, they don't get continuances that go on. They get thrown out because they can't prove their claim. None of these cases go on. They keep losing. Over and over and over. By the logic of the number of times they've been thrown out of court providing legitimacy, that would mean Orly Taitz has a bulletproof case. ~Bang It's my understanding the anti Redskins mascot, Redskins won the first trademark case... The trademark pannel found the Redskins name was a slur to the Redskins who brought the first case against the sports franchise... In the lower federal court this trademark pannel finding was overturned not because the federal court found the name wasn't a slur to Redskins but because the Redskins who brought the case were to far beyond the age of 18 when they filed the case... They waited too long... The second case currrently working through the courts is made up of 18, 19 and 20 year old Redskins complaining about the franchise name so would be unlikely to get overturned on the same grounds all things otherwise being equal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Agreed, Jumbo. I think there are logical reasons for supporting the name. (Every argument I make in support of that goal, of course, falls into that category.) Complaining about "PC" (or Democrats, or Obama, or the ACLU) isn't one of them. (Me, I keep thinking that "90% of Natives say it isn't offensive" ought to end the discussion, right there. But it doesn't seem to.) I think the logical defense of the franchise name boiles down to qantitative analysis. How many Native Americans are offended, How many Native Americans are there? I think the fact that there are numerous reservations in the US which themselves use the name :"Redskins" as their highschool mascott would be a good data point to use. Likewise if I were Danny I would be giving all these Highschools new uniforms next year and a few scholarships to ensure they don't change their mascott and to show solidarity with the Native Americans who's perspective we share on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So how come the name "Redskins" wasn't even in a racial discussion 10 years ago? It hasn't been a problem since the 1930's but it's a problem now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So how come the name "Redskins" wasn't even in a racial discussion 10 years ago? It hasn't been a problem since the 1930's but it's a problem now? This has been discussed for much longer than 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This has been discussed for much longer than 10 years. By who, I don't EVER remember hearing anything 10 years ago? What media reported this because it was never a big enough issue to make any major or minor media reporting. I don't ever remember hearing 1 single issue with our name except 3-4 years ago when they took it to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 By who, I don't EVER remember hearing anything 10 years ago? What media reported this because it was never a big enough issue to make any major or minor media reporting. I don't ever remember hearing 1 single issue with our name except 3-4 years ago when they took it to court. 10 years? Harjo's group challenged the trademark in 1992. It was reported then and it's popped up a few times since. http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-01/local/35438610_1_head-coach-washington-football-team-name-and-logo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 10 years? Harjo's group challenged the trademark in 1992. It was reported then and it's popped up a few times since. http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-01/local/35438610_1_head-coach-washington-football-team-name-and-logo Was just asking...I really didn't know. I just don't ever remember it being a big deal as it is today. I just don't ever remember political garbage being spewed on Sunday night football at half time or things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Was just asking...I really didn't know. I just don't ever remember it being a big deal as it is today. I just don't ever remember political garbage being spewed on Sunday night football at half time or things like that. I don't think its ever been a big deal like it is right now, you're probably right that it's never been this bad. I can't really remember 1992. I'm sorry if my tone implied that you were somehow wrong or insincere for asking about it. It seems to be dying down now which is nice because I'm really not interested in having Glenn Beck as my advocate in a political fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 It seems to be dying down now which is nice because I'm really not interested in having Glenn Beck as my advocate in a political fight. The national media didn't give much play to yesterdays protest. The march occurred 4 hours before gametime. The protestors seemingly targeted our team members and franchise brass, rather than the 75k fans who had mostly yet to arrive. I wasn't around to see any of this, just read the story below. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/protest-over-redskins-name-in-denver-sunday-as-team-faces-the-broncos As my family and I were heading in for the game, I met one protestor holding up a sign just outside of the south gates at apx. 1:30 (local time). The crowd of fans heading to the turnstiles was already thickening at that point, and this guy was right in the middle of it all. However, nobody seemed heckle or haze him for the 5 minutes I was there; but I'm sure he heard a few choice words during the course of the day. This gentleman said he was Native, and a citizen of present day Canada. I could tell he was passionate about the issue due to his willingness to make himself such an easy target. He was a class act, and not at all militant when I spoke to him. Pretty bold IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm0409 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Mark Maske, Redskins owner Daniel Snyder is to meet with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell this week about the team name... http://t.co/KKUkfldBJ7 The Snyder-Goodell meeting is to come in advance of the NFL's scheduled meeting this week with representatives of the Oneida Indian Nation. The Snyder-Goodell meeting “is to get more of an understanding from the club as to how it plans to address the issue,” according to source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/protest-over-redskins-name-in-denver-sunday-as-team-faces-the-broncos AIM and INM are calling on players, especially African-American players like Robert Griffith III, to pressure Washington owner Dan Snyder to change the name, logo and the mascot of the team. Which is what I have been trying to get across. These people want the whole thing changed, not just the name. We can't just simply go "Washington Braves" and keep everything else, because that is not going to appease these people. If we have to make the change, you go all out with the change so you never have to go through something like this again. I actually feel sorry for those Natives who like the name and want the team to keep it, because if they really are the majority they are being completely cut out of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think the logical defense of the franchise name boiles down to qantitative analysis. How many Native Americans are offended, How many Native Americans are there? I think the fact that there are numerous reservations in the US which themselves use the name :"Redskins" as their highschool mascott would be a good data point to use. Likewise if I were Danny I would be giving all these Highschools new uniforms next year and a few scholarships to ensure they don't change their mascott and to show solidarity with the Native Americans who's perspective we share on this issue. JMS - what High School / location is this pic from? Thx... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The Snyder-Goodell meeting is to come in advance of the NFL's scheduled meeting this week with representatives of the Oneida Indian . Hopefully, lanny davis and company will put goodell on point about this snake oil salesman halbritter. Would love to see some national media stories about this clowns character. And, in case nobody noticed from the Denver protest article ... Robert Griffith III. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 JMS - what High School / location is this pic from? Thx... I believe this is it. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna,_Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The Snyder-Goodell meeting “is to get more of an understanding from the club as to how it plans to address the issue,” according to source. How it plans to address the issue could be interpreted a couple of different ways. Topics discussed could be Is Snyder going to have to expend his own resources to keep fighting this fight? Is it worth fighting? It seems implied to me that "how it plans to address the issue" does not include ignoring the issue, and that there needs to be some kind of "gameplan" in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.