Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Slateman]

Read the thread. Especially the last page.

 

I  have. Rak wants to get paid. This was there all season. There was nothing schematic about it. Orakpo had this open to him all freaking season and didn't want to do it. Now he realizes that his contract year is ending and Kerrigan  is outplaying him and Rob Jackson is waiting in the wings. Orakpo finally put some heart and work in to his play and it's showing. If he had done this two years ago, this thread wouldn't be active.

[KDawg]

I  have. Rak wants to get paid. This was there all season. There was nothing schematic about it. Orakpo had this open to him all freaking season and didn't want to do it. Now he realizes that his contract year is ending and Kerrigan  is outplaying him and Rob Jackson is waiting in the wings. Orakpo finally put some heart and work in to his play and it's showing. If he had done this two years ago, this thread wouldn't be active.

Lots of opinion and assumptions here.

[KDawg]

Great call there. Jackson, Wilson and Fletch. Fletch took on two guys and Wilson and Jackson were free. Schematically, as a whole we look SO much better tonight. Partially because of who we're playing. Partially because he's getting creative.

[TheGoodBits]

Lots of opinion and assumptions here.

Your pre-edit post was just fine.

[KDawg]

Your pre-edit post was just fine.

Yeah. Wasn't inappropriate by any means. Just not how I want to engage in conversation with someone.

[Slateman]

Lots of opinion and assumptions here.

 

Actually, no. It's simple observation. Your version of what's happening implies that for the past three seasons, Orakpo has been told not to rush the passer, but to rush up field to hold containment on all plays.

 

I have an extremely hard time believing that. In fact, I would say it's grounds for Mike Shanhan to not be qualified for the HoF if that's the case. Or actually, he's not qualified to coach football at any level.

[KDawg]

Actually, no. It's simple observation. Your version of what's happening implies that for the past three seasons, Orakpo has been told not to rush the passer, but to rush up field to hold containment on all plays.

 

I have an extremely hard time believing that. In fact, I would say it's grounds for Mike Shanhan to not be qualified for the HoF if that's the case. Or actually, he's not qualified to coach football at any level.

 

The past three seasons? C'mon, man.

 

2011: 9 sacks

2012: 1 sack in 2 games. He was injured and didn't play after week two.

2013: 8.5 sacks.

 

Keep in mind, sacks are not the best measure of anything. Also keep in mind that the contain sacks came with Carriker in there (Carriker and Bowen even enjoyed a few sacks of their own doing).

[Slateman]

The past three seasons? C'mon, man.

 

2011: 9 sacks

2012: 1 sack in 2 games. He was injured and didn't play after week two.

2013: 8.5 sacks.

 

Keep in mind, sacks are not the best measure of anything. Also keep in mind that the contain sacks came with Carriker in there (Carriker and Bowen even enjoyed a few sacks of their own doing).

He's been doing the same thing for the last three seasons.

 

Just stop. This is clearly motivated by contract desires. You can come up with some "scheme" nonsense if you want. The only scheme related things I see are where Haslett has finally starting moving Orakpo around a little and using him as a blitzer. But the bottom line is that fans have been crying out for Orakpo to have another move besides rushing upfield. In the last four games he's finally shown something besides that and he's had the best stretch of his career. So either he finally started listening to everyone who could see the plainly obvious or he actually started caring because he wants to get paid.

[KDawg]

Okay. Enjoy your point of view. I'll keep talking football here.

[goskins10]

This has been talked about. Rak has been on contain rushes all season. He's played the run this well all season, and I've said it throughout this thread. No one bothered to listen. The contain rushes don't work unless you get interior pressure. We're getting it against the Giants tonight and it's resulting in big plays. Haslett also looks like he's bringing guys down to play the force role and allowing Rak a two way go to get to the QB instead of contain rushing him.

 

We're finally getting creative schematically. That's a major change.

 

I know you have been saying that all season and quite frankly it's not entirely correct. Let me ask this, if he is playing "contain rushes" all season, why is it he gets caught too far up field many times with runners blazing past him for big gains??  He has not been playing the run well all season. He was getting played early in the season.

 

He has been playing better the last few games. That's it. No more no less. Had he been playing like this all season I would have said so all season. I don;t want him to play poorly. I want all 53 guys to be pro-bowlers. But not going to look with blinders on just because I like a guy.

[KDawg]

I know you have been saying that all season and quite frankly it's not entirely correct. Let me ask this, if he is playing "contain rushes" all season, why is it he gets caught too far up field many times with runners blazing past him for big gains??  He has not been playing the run well all season. He was getting played early in the season.

 

He has been playing better the last few games. That's it. No more no less. Had he been playing like this all season I would have said so all season. I don;t want him to play poorly. I want all 53 guys to be pro-bowlers. But not going to look with blinders on just because I like a guy.

 

A few things:

 

1) I never claimed he's only been on contain rushes, which is how you make it sound above. I have said that he is on contain rushes a majority of the time.

 

2) Runners really haven't "blazed past" him. You don't contain rush vs a run. You play force or you play spill. He's been a force guy, but he hasn't been "blazed past" go back and watch the games. He's been excellent in run support. A contain rush is a pass rush that is designed to keep the quarterback in the pocket in conjunction with an interior push from the defensive line. Basically, you're looking to collapse the pocket from all angles so the quarterback can't see and has no escape route.

 

I don't know what games you've been watching, to be quite honest. On run away he does an excellent job bending down the line of scrimmage. The majority of times he's been beat are when the runner plants and goes backside. That actually happened last night, but the rest of the defense was there to rally and make the tackle at the LOS.

 

3) There are no blinders. I am not afraid to point out his shortcomings. He hasn't been an elite pass rusher this year, for whatever reason. He is much improved in his coverage, but he's not great there. He's very good against the run, which is an excellent change because he wasn't earlier in his career, which, ironically enough, is when he was showing flashes of elite pass rushing ability.

 

4) The OLBs in our scheme are asked to do much more than rush the passer. They are not just defensive linemen in a two point stance. They have so many different roles they have to cover. They are in coverage much more often than most 3-4 LBs in the NFL.

 

5) Brian Orakpo is not worth breaking the bank for. I don't know what "breaking the bank" means, but to be quite honest Rob Jackson is a good football player and can cover for Rak. If Rak comes back and asks for a reasonable contract, where he gets paid well but not overpaid, we need to keep him. If he is looking for a blockbuster deal, we can't afford him and we have to move on.

 

6) The 'Skins have really done some different things schematically speaking the last few weeks. They were bringing a force defender down into the curl zone to allow Rak a two way go on pass rush situations. He made two plays in those situations. One was a sack, the other was a backside pursuit tackle on run.

 

7) My question earlier in the thread, to Laron Burgundy, is why has Rak been more noticeable? The answer is because the media has been pointing out his plays. He has had off games. I won't deny that. He's not perfect. He's not a god. He's human and he's played poorly at times. But the over arching theme of the season for Brian Orakpo is that he's been a solid OLB for us. Nothing more. Nothing less. Solid.

[Tyron Biggums]

 

A few things:

 

1) I never claimed he's only been on contain rushes, which is how you make it sound above. I have said that he is on contain rushes a majority of the time.

 

2) Runners really haven't "blazed past" him. You don't contain rush vs a run. You play force or you play spill. He's been a force guy, but he hasn't been "blazed past" go back and watch the games. He's been excellent in run support. A contain rush is a pass rush that is designed to keep the quarterback in the pocket in conjunction with an interior push from the defensive line. Basically, you're looking to collapse the pocket from all angles so the quarterback can't see and has no escape route.

 

I don't know what games you've been watching, to be quite honest. On run away he does an excellent job bending down the line of scrimmage. The majority of times he's been beat are when the runner plants and goes backside. That actually happened last night, but the rest of the defense was there to rally and make the tackle at the LOS.

 

3) There are no blinders. I am not afraid to point out his shortcomings. He hasn't been an elite pass rusher this year, for whatever reason. He is much improved in his coverage, but he's not great there. He's very good against the run, which is an excellent change because he wasn't earlier in his career, which, ironically enough, is when he was showing flashes of elite pass rushing ability.

 

4) The OLBs in our scheme are asked to do much more than rush the passer. They are not just defensive linemen in a two point stance. They have so many different roles they have to cover. They are in coverage much more often than most 3-4 LBs in the NFL.

 

5) Brian Orakpo is not worth breaking the bank for. I don't know what "breaking the bank" means, but to be quite honest Rob Jackson is a good football player and can cover for Rak. If Rak comes back and asks for a reasonable contract, where he gets paid well but not overpaid, we need to keep him. If he is looking for a blockbuster deal, we can't afford him and we have to move on.

 

6) The 'Skins have really done some different things schematically speaking the last few weeks. They were bringing a force defender down into the curl zone to allow Rak a two way go on pass rush situations. He made two plays in those situations. One was a sack, the other was a backside pursuit tackle on run.

 

7) My question earlier in the thread, to Laron Burgundy, is why has Rak been more noticeable? The answer is because the media has been pointing out his plays. He has had off games. I won't deny that. He's not perfect. He's not a god. He's human and he's played poorly at times. But the over arching theme of the season for Brian Orakpo is that he's been a solid OLB for us. Nothing more. Nothing less. Solid.

Thank you Kdawg for sharing your insight of defense. I for one really appreciate it.

 

Hail

[KDawg]

Thank you Kdawg for sharing your insight of defense. I for one really appreciate it.

 

Hail

 

Sure. But keep in mind, I'm not someone who knows what the 'Skins scheme is. Unless you're in Ashburn, in the facility, it's tough to know every piece of it. My assessment is based on what I see with what I know. I could potentially be wrong. Rak may not be on contain rushes as often as I think he is. But Kerrigan does a lot of similar stuff as Rak, and Brandon Jenkins was beaten badly to the outside when he decided to take an inside lane on a pass rush earlier this season with nothing outside of him to protect him.

 

It's educated guesswork, for all involved.

[Tyron Biggums]

Sure. But keep in mind, I'm not someone who knows what the 'Skins scheme is. Unless you're in Ashburn, in the facility, it's tough to know every piece of it. My assessment is based on what I see with what I know. I could potentially be wrong. Rak may not be on contain rushes as often as I think he is. But Kerrigan does a lot of similar stuff as Rak, and Brandon Jenkins was beaten badly to the outside when he decided to take an inside lane on a pass rush earlier this season with nothing outside of him to protect him.

 

It's educated guesswork, for all involved.

Agreed, but given that we know Haslett's defense seem willing to give some things up to prevent big plays. Your assessment falls right in line with what I am seeing on the field. Until you start calling out players or plays in emotional outburst that are abstract any logic I am forced to consider you a defensive genius. Until further notice .

 

Hail

[BoBoCTiberius]

Completely agree with KDawg's assessment. If this is the level 'Rak will play at going forward, I'd say he's worth a moderate contract for sure. He's been good in pass rush situations (and showed that he can do a bit more than bullrush guys last night) and has been solid in run support. Still not a great cover guy (which hurts us because I'm not sure Kerrigan is good enough in coverage), but he's worth a decent payday, but not a blowout contract like he may demand. 

 

It all depends on who else is available and what's there to draft with our 2nd rounder. I'd prefer to get an interior lineman or DB there, but I think we might fill those needs with veterans, which is probably the better call. I think Haslett's job security (which I wouldn't be surprised to see him go before season's end at this point) plays a big role because we could be back to a 4-3 next year, where Orakpo could excel when put back in the position at which he excelled at UT. 

[HtownRocks111]

He seems too humbled of a guy to demand max money that alot of people here are talking.  If anything he would give the Skins a discount after seeing the kind gestures some of the other players made this past off-season with restructuring their deals.

[KnoxAnimal]

Orakpo should be used primarily as a pass rusher. His speed on the edge is his greatest asset. He needs to be rushing the passer as much as possible and not out in coverage.

[98ORAKPO98]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/brian-orakpo-begins-to-pile-up-sacks-as-free-agency-looms-for-the-redskins-linebacker/2013/12/04/b5529820-5d34-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html

 

“Right now this is home,” he said at Redskins Park. “So I would love to continue to finish my career as a Redskin. Obviously we’re 3-9 so it’s a disappointing season. But that doesn’t take away from what I know we’re capable of. If we get our core guys back, add a few people here and there with all the money that we’re receiving back from all the salary-cap issues that we had, I think we’ll be up for running at another title shot again the following year. But like I said, we’ve got to finish this last quarter and then everything else will take care of itself with the contracts and with who’s here, who’s not, stuff like that.”

[DC9]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/brian-orakpo-begins-to-pile-up-sacks-as-free-agency-looms-for-the-redskins-linebacker/2013/12/04/b5529820-5d34-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html

 

“Right now this is home,” he said at Redskins Park. “So I would love to continue to finish my career as a Redskin. Obviously we’re 3-9 so it’s a disappointing season. But that doesn’t take away from what I know we’re capable of. If we get our core guys back, add a few people here and there with all the money that we’re receiving back from all the salary-cap issues that we had, I think we’ll be up for running at another title shot again the following year. But like I said, we’ve got to finish this last quarter and then everything else will take care of itself with the contracts and with who’s here, who’s not, stuff like that.”

 

If we can get Spanos back I'm all for signing Orakpo.

Price has to be fair, though.

[KingGibbs]

Resign 'Rak? Yes.

 

Break the bank? No.

 

I've stood my ground on this issue and will continue to.

[UK Skins]

7) My question earlier in the thread, to Laron Burgundy, is why has Rak been more noticeable? The answer is because the media has been pointing out his plays.

 

Sorry KDawg, I'm really enjoying the discussion and the lessons but that's a bit harsh. I've noticed Orakpo much more over the last few games, and given some of the appalling analysis we get here, it's not because some "expert" is pointing him out to me. He does seem to be using more techniques than earlier in the season (and even his career) and looks a much more complete player to me. Is that due to a scheme change do you think? I can't imagine he has suddenly started taking lessons on rushing the passer.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Sorry KDawg, I'm really enjoying the discussion and the lessons but that's a bit harsh. I've noticed Orakpo much more over the last few games, and given some of the appalling analysis we get here, it's not because some "expert" is pointing him out to me. He does seem to be using more techniques than earlier in the season (and even his career) and looks a much more complete player to me. Is that due to a scheme change do you think? I can't imagine he has suddenly started taking lessons on rushing the passer.

 

From interviews Orakpo has given, he's said it was a scheme thing.  He's now being allowed to attack his blocker in different ways.  So Haslett has switched from dialing up pressure, to trying to put his better players in positions to succeed.  I find it a little ridiculous it took him until 3 or so games ago to do this.

[skinny21]

From interviews Orakpo has given, he's said it was a scheme thing. He's now being allowed to attack his blocker in different ways. So Haslett has switched from dialing up pressure, to trying to put his better players in positions to succeed. I find it a little ridiculous it took him until 3 or so games ago to do this.

I find it interesting that now 'Rak (and Haslett) are saying that the problem was getting back into the swing of things. I'd say its probably both, after all I doubt Orakpo didn't suddenly realize he could also go inside the tackle.

[Mr. Sinister]

Last week may have been Raks first sack(s) of Eli Manning. Can't recall him doing that in any of the previous years. Unless he gets absolutely stonewalled these next 4 weeks, he is going to hit the 10-11 sack mark again. I'm glad that he's starting to get after it a little more, making plays in the backfield.

[KDawg]

Sorry KDawg, I'm really enjoying the discussion and the lessons but that's a bit harsh. I've noticed Orakpo much more over the last few games, and given some of the appalling analysis we get here, it's not because some "expert" is pointing him out to me. He does seem to be using more techniques than earlier in the season (and even his career) and looks a much more complete player to me. Is that due to a scheme change do you think? I can't imagine he has suddenly started taking lessons on rushing the passer.

The point is, he's played well all year long as far as Haslett has utilized him. The media now notices because he's been set loose.