Bubble Screen Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Borderline first ballot, yes (especially with the way the HOF voters treat first ballot players). The greatest player ever, Willie Mays, received only 94.6% of the vote his first year. I wouldn't sweat the idiot voters who left Maddux off their ballot. Well, specifically, the idiot that used steroids as his reasoning for leaving Maddux off.And Mays isn't universally considered the best ever, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 the big hurt!! my favorite player as a kid, besides ripken of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Borderline first ballot, yes (especially with the way the HOF voters treat first ballot players). The greatest player ever, Willie Mays, received only 94.6% of the vote his first year. I wouldn't sweat the idiot voters who left Maddux off their ballot. That's what I was saying. Glavine deserves to get in, but on the first ballot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's what I was saying. Glavine deserves to get in, but on the first ballot?Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 IMO, to be a first ballot hall of famer, you should at least be a starter in your era. I don't think Glavine would be on my 5 man rotation in his era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 IMO, to be a first ballot hall of famer, you should at least be a starter in your era. I don't think Glavine would be on my 5 man rotation in his era.You don't like winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The pitcher he's probably most comparable to, Andy Pettitte, I'd take over him. And I can't stand the Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Well, specifically, the idiot that used steroids as his reasoning for leaving Maddux off. And Mays isn't universally considered the best ever, btw.  That guy should lose his vote. He apparently won't be using it anyway. I believe he said he wouldn't vote for anyone who played in the steroid era (punish the many for the crimes of the few, I guess). What is the steroid era? Is it over yet? And why would you exclude the 70s and 80s when methamphetamine use was rampant? Anyway, I guess it means he won't be voting for ANYONE for at least 20 years. Because there really isn't anyone left to induct from the regular vote that didn't play in that era, and it will be a long time before anyone who didn't play in that era is eligible.  Anyway, if he's going to abuse the privilege of membership, he deserves to be kicked out. At the very least I'd like to see the Braves and Cubs revoke his credentials at all of their parks and facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The pitcher he's probably most comparable to, Andy Pettitte, I'd take over him. And I can't stand the Yankees. you are on your own there. Glavine was always a better pitcher than Pettite, in nearly every facet except Ks. The irony here is that the two managers who probably benefited the most from the PED era are getting in this year. Â Tony La Russa and Joe Torre. and maybe Bobby Cox too. Thats the stupidity of the baseball HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 The pitcher he's probably most comparable to, Andy Pettitte, I'd take over him. And I can't stand the Yankees. Seriously?Who else, Mike Mussina? haha Btw, I'm pretty sure Andy admitted to using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Next year should be interesting with Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez on the ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 you are on your own there. Glavine was always a better pitcher than Pettite, in nearly every facet except K's. Go look up their stats. You'll be surprised just how close they are. Glavine's 162 game avg season was 15-10 and Pettitte's was 17-10. But the tiebreaker for me was their postseason record. Glavine is 14-16 and Pettitte is 19-10. Can't stand the Yankees, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Go look up their stats. You'll be surprised just how close they are. Glavine's 162 game avg season was 15-10 and Pettitte's was 17-10. But the tiebreaker for me was their postseason record. Glavine is 14-16 and Pettitte is 19-10. Can't stand the Yankees, but it is what it is. Dude there's no case for Pettitte being the better pitcher. Glavine has 49 more wins. He has the 4th most wins by a lefty..ever.More Cy Youngs. More 20 win seasons. 10- time All Star, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yeah Andy Pettitte isn't in the same class as Glavine. Not sure Glavine deserves to be 1st ballot though. Johnson and Pedro are locks next year. Both are easy 1st balloters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Dude there's no case for Pettitte being the better pitcher. Glavine has 49 more wins. He has the 4th most wins by a lefty..ever. More Cy Youngs. More 20 win seasons. 10- time All Star, etc. Â Glavine pitched longer too. Both are roughly 100 games over 500. Â Again, Pettitte's avg season is 17-10 while Glavine's is 15-10 while Pettitte was by far the better post season pitcher. Again, how is Glavine so much better? Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Glavine pitched longer too. Both are roughly 100 games over 500. Again, Pettitte's avg season is 17-10 while Glavine's is 15-10 while Pettitte was by far the better post season pitcher. Again, how is Glavine so much better? Yeah, he pitched longer. Another plus for Glavine. And you keep bringing up postseason. Tell you what, YouTube Game 6 of the '95 WS. The bigger the game, the better he was. Seriously, I can't believe you think Pettitte was better. It's comical. Edit: and that Indians lineup was LOADED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yeah, he pitched longer. Another plus for Glavine. And you keep bringing up postseason. Tell you what, YouTube Game 6 of the '95 WS. The bigger the game, the better he was. Seriously, I can't believe you think Pettitte was better. It's comical. Edit: and that Indians lineup was LOADED. Â Glavine was 14-16 in the post season. He wasn't that damn clutch. Glavine does have a better ERA 3.5 to 3.8, but Pettitte avg per 162 games was 17-10 while Glavine was 15-10 and Pettitte was 19-11 in the post season. They're both 100 games over 500. PLUS (and I hate saying this) Pettitte has the rings. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Glavine was 14-16 in the post season. He wasn't that damn clutch. Glavine does have a better ERA 3.5 to 3.8, but Pettitte avg per 162 games was 17-10 while Glavine was 15-10 and Pettitte was 19-11 in the post season. They're both 100 games over 500. PLUS (and I hate saying this) Pettitte has the rings. Rings are a very small part of it. Peyton Manning also only has one ring and a similar postseason record (9-11). Is he still not considered one of the best QBs to ever play?305 wins 2 Cy Youngs 10 time all star I think 5 seasons with 20 or more wins WS title 4th most wins by a lefty Pettitte was a very good pitcher, but he wasn't better than Glavine. And as I said earlier, Pettitte admitted to using HGH. So, aside from not having the resume of Glavine, he was also a cheater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Dude there's no case for Pettitte being the better pitcher. Glavine has 49 more wins. He has the 4th most wins by a lefty..ever. More Cy Youngs. More 20 win seasons. 10- time All Star, etc.  You guys are arguing about wins. Please stop that.  Anyway, over a career, Petitte and Glavine have remarkably similar numbers. Their ERA+s and WHIPs are almost identical.  The difference is that Glavine's peak years are insanely better than Petitte's. That's why there is a big difference in their WAR numbers.  Petitte had three years with an ERA+ over 135...and one of those was a late season in Houston when he might have been ingesting bull testosterone through an IV pump. Glavine had six seasons over 135 and four seasons over 125. In his 12 prime years, he had ten seasons over 125. In Petitte's 12 prime years, he had 3 over 125. Glavine was dominant for the majority of his prime. Petitte was not.  And - for the record - I hate the arguments over first ballot Hall of Famers. Either you are a Hall of Famer or you are not. The idea that someone deserves to go in on their second year of eligibility but not their first is stupid. Glavine was 14-16 in the post season. He wasn't that damn clutch. Glavine does have a better ERA 3.5 to 3.8, but Pettitte avg per 162 games was 17-10 while Glavine was 15-10 and Pettitte was 19-11 in the post season. They're both 100 games over 500. PLUS (and I hate saying this) Pettitte has the rings.   You are clearly 79 years old and a Hall of Fame voter. So, I congratulate you on a long and somewhat successful life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You're right, Glavine and Pettitte's numbers are practically the same. I don't get where Glavine is soooooo much better. Plus, Pettitte pitched in the AL and Glavine pitched in the NL with no DH. Over the course of a career, that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Â And - for the record - I hate the arguments over first ballot Hall of Famers. Either you are a Hall of Famer or you are not. The idea that someone deserves to go in on their second year of eligibility but not their first is stupid. Â Â This is what I will never understand about HoF voting. If you're weren't good enough to get in the first time, what changed the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc? It's just a big game of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 To be fair, you can't vote everybody in. Next year we know Johnson and Pedro will get in. Smoltz "might" get in. In 2016 there will probably be at least 3 more sure bets, so guys like Sheffield and Mussina will have to wait a few years for the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 To be fair, you can't vote everybody in. Next year we know Johnson and Pedro will get in. Smoltz "might" get in. In 2016 there will probably be at least 3 more sure bets, so guys like Sheffield and Mussina will have to wait a few years for the call. Â So why couldn't Mussina get in this year? They can elect up to 5, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think Mussina's gonna have to wait a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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