Should the Redskins follow the Peyton Manning Colts' Blueprint

[Oldfan]

We've all heard the saying, "Defense wins championships".

But I find that statement to be wholly incomplete. I think the more appropriate saying would be, "Offense wins games and defense wins championships." It doesn't neglect either. I don't necessarily like that statement, either. But I think it's a much more complete statement.

I first heard that statement with Lombardi's Packers used as evidence. The statement I believe is based on a misunderstanding of statistics.

The Pack's strength was a dominant, ball control offense which kept its defense off the field while resulting in lower scoring games. So, the Packers defense typically ranked #1 and the offense #4. But the offense was the stronger unit.

[SWFLSkins]

People seem to be neglecting the need for a classic 3-4 nose. That would allow Cofield to shift to an end, and have a decent rotation with Cofield between nose (to spell the new guy), Carriker, Bowen, Jenkins and Golston (who has played fairly well, from what I've seen). Or, if Neild is healthy and shows growth, Cofield could become a full time end in rotations with the others. That will take care of how plodding and slow the DL looks from time to time. They're on the field way too long.

I thought about it, but could they get an impact NT in the later rounds, probably doubtful right. How about FA? Not a lot of money there, so where do get one? I also hope Neild develops.

[Morneblade]

Do you want the same results the Colts got? Building half a football team is a good way to win lots of regular season games and then get dumped from the playoffs by teams with better balance. You can build the offense like the Colts did, or build the defense as George Allen did to get just about the same result. Teams with a Grade A offense and a grade D defense and those with a Grade A defense and a grade D offense are equals on the field.

You aren't likely to win Super Bowls with a plan like this. If you recall, the Colts needed a perfect storm of luck to win theirs. Before that, Peyton had developed the reputation of not being able to win big games. Well, it wasn't Peyton at all. It was the Colts plan getting the results it deserved. It was not likely to win big games against good teams with better balance on offense and defense.

Absolutely! I'd focus more on our Defense right now, as our Offense is looking quite good but our Defense stinks to high heaven right now.

[KDawg]

Agreed, that he's a hybrid, but what makes Cofield a bad nose tackle. He seems to hold the center pretty well, the run defense is stout, and nose tackles generally aren't considered pass rushers. Last year, Cofield and Nield seemed to create a pretty good tandem. I always thought we were lacking more depth than talent at the position.

Where did I say Cofield was a bad nose tackle?

I thought about it, but could they get an impact NT in the later rounds, probably doubtful right. How about FA? Not a lot of money there, so where do get one? I also hope Neild develops.

You could find a pretty good one in the second round, most likely. I certainly don't advocate reaching for one, but if one is there and he's our BPA...

There isn't really any available via FA.

I wouldn't count as Neild being a starter.

[clskinsfan]

Defense Defense Defense.

That is all.

Amen. this offense is 6th in scoring. The offense is going to be good for the next decade regardless of who is catching balls from RG3. Every draft pick we have should be on defense.

[Burgold]

Where did I say Cofield was a bad nose tackle?

Sorry, just have been hearing this undercurrent for a while. People have been wanting to replace him and complaining about him, but I don't think he's been the problem.

I asked you because I thought you might be able to explain his weaknesses better.

[CTskins]

Not having first round picks completely changes the landscape.

Our priorities at the moment go like this;

#1 Safety

#2 MLB (to replace Fletch when he retires)

#3 CB

Regarding #2, Is there any possiblity of reverting back to a base 4-3? Perry Riley is a more than competent MLB. Rak and Kerrigan can revert back to their DE spots on rush downs and RJax can stay on the outside. At that point the Skins can focus their picks for which they are meant...Depth.

[authentic]

People seem to be neglecting the need for a classic 3-4 nose. That would allow Cofield to shift to an end, and have a decent rotation with Cofield between nose (to spell the new guy), Carriker, Bowen, Jenkins and Golston (who has played fairly well, from what I've seen). Or, if Neild is healthy and shows growth, Cofield could become a full time end in rotations with the others. That will take care of how plodding and slow the DL looks from time to time. They're on the field way too long.

IMO, Cofield isn't a natural nose, though he's been servicable. I would prefer him rotate @ DE and at DT in some 4-3 formations. I would like Baker to get the majority of snaps @ NT from here on out.

[Bacon]

With that said, you don't need 2 grade A units to win a Super Bowl. You can get away with a grade C defense, like the Giants or the Rams when they won.

Rams had a 4th ranked D in terms of points allowed, just saying. People forget they were basically invincible that year. They were 7th in 2001 as well, it was 2000 where they were absolutely terrible (31st).

[KDawg]

Sorry, just have been hearing this undercurrent for a while. People have been wanting to replace him and complaining about him, but I don't think he's been the problem.

I asked you because I thought you might be able to explain his weaknesses better.

He does okay at neutralizing the LOS, but he rarely establishes the line of scrimmage in the offense's backfield. A great nose tackle will drive the blocker back into the backfield and control both gaps. Cofield isn't too bad at controlling the gaps, but he either neutralizes or gets moved back, he doesn't establish a new LOS. That's his issue. He's a bit small, and that's part of the reason he doesn't get that extra push.

Given his size, he's done well. But we need a natural nose so that we can use Cofield in a role that's better suited for him.

[CTskins]

He does okay at neutralizing the LOS, but he rarely establishes the line of scrimmage in the offense's backfield. A great nose tackle will drive the blocker back into the backfield and control both gaps. Cofield isn't too bad at controlling the gaps, but he either neutralizes or gets moved back, he doesn't establish a new LOS. That's his issue. He's a bit small, and that's part of the reason he doesn't get that extra push.

Given his size, he's done well. But we need a natural nose so that we can use Cofield in a role that's better suited for him.

Good nose tackles occupy both gaps by requiring the opponent to double team them(i.e. overpower one-on-one matchups regularly) in order to free up the middle linebackers for plays. Cofield seems to be better suited as a 4-3 DL. I doubt Haslett is dismissed this year considering what he's done with a bunch of back-ups and misfitting players, but maybe they should consider a reversion to the 4-3...

[KDawg]

Good nose tackles occupy both gaps by requiring the opponent to double team them(i.e. overpower one-on-one matchups regularly)

I thought that went without saying.

[Darth Tater]

Remember when Peyton Manning was drafted by the Colts? The next few years of drafts were dedicated to getting all of the offensive weapons Peyton needed to be successful. they did this almost ignoring the defense. should the redskins do the same and build the defense through free agency?

When Manning was drafted, most of the offensive parts were already in place. Mora did decide that he could upgrade those parts with varying degrees of success. It was a weak defense that held back the Mora teams. The 1999 draft, with the exception of James (primarily due to the Faulk trade) and a guard who didn't even make the team, was focused on defense. All of Mora's drafts were primarily focused on the defense and the only high pick spent on the offensive side of the ball during Mora was Wayne which was a no-brainer. Dungy also focused on the defense in the draft. Some people seem to beg for linemen here but from 1998 to 2012, the Colts drafted exactly 2 OL with a pick higher than a 3.

[CTskins]

I thought that went without saying.

But It has to be said in order for the rest of my post to make sense...You took the first part of my post out of context, thereby making it a "Duh" statement.

What do you think of the rest?

[KDawg]

But It has to be said in order for the rest of my post to make sense...You took the first part of my post out of context, thereby making it a "Duh" statement.

What do you think of the rest?

I don't disagree that Cofield would have success at a 3-tech type of defender. I'm not sure of how effective he'd be in a 1 (although I think he could play there decently, much like he does as a nose). I think he'd see a ton of success as a 3-4 defensive end. The key cog to any 3-4 defense is your nose tackle. A decent one can allow for a decent defense. A strong one can allow for a strong one. An elite one can allow for an elite one. Right now, our defense's maximum potential, in my opinion, is "decent" with Cofield as the nose. You move him to end and put a more traditional nose in who is skilled and I believe you have completely upgraded the defense's ability and gave the team additional room for growth.

[Darth Tater]

Not having first round picks completely changes the landscape.

Our priorities at the moment go like this;

#1 Safety

#2 MLB (to replace Fletch when he retires)

#3 CB

From 1999 to 2011, the Colts only drafted offense in the first round half the time. Given that they had just traded Faulk, going with a RB in 1999 (might argue the back actually taken) was an obvious choice. The others were all mid or late first round picks.

[CTskins]

I don't disagree that Cofield would have success at a 3-tech type of defender. I'm not sure of how effective he'd be in a 1 (although I think he could play there decently, much like he does as a nose). I think he'd see a ton of success as a 3-4 defensive end. The key cog to any 3-4 defense is your nose tackle. A decent one can allow for a decent defense. A strong one can allow for a strong one. An elite one can allow for an elite one. Right now, our defense's maximum potential, in my opinion, is "decent" with Cofield as the nose. You move him to end and put a more traditional nose in who is skilled and I believe you have completely upgraded the defense's ability and gave the team additional room for growth.

Great. Now all we have to do is find an elite NT (How's that for a "duh" statement?)!!!

I absolutely agree with your potential comment. The one thing that Haslett is not getting nearly enough credit for is making the whole of the defense be worth more than the sum of their parts as the season goes on.

[Farbod21]

A healthy Garcon will be huge. The guy is a stud. We really need secondary help. Our secondary is downright horrendous. Its hard to watch.

[FanboyOf91]

I just hope Cobra Kai doesn't turn out to be our Mike Vanderjagt in the playoffs.

[Darth Tater]

Agreed, that he's a hybrid, but what makes Cofield a bad nose tackle. He seems to hold the center pretty well, the run defense is stout, and nose tackles generally aren't considered pass rushers. Last year, Cofield and Nield seemed to create a pretty good tandem. I always thought we were lacking more depth than talent at the position.

I suspect that a lot of that had to do with having Orkpo and Carriker teaming up with Kerrigan (without those guys, we are now missing 14-20 sacks). On passes, this often meant the pocket would be collapsing on both sides while you needed two chips in the interior. This year, I've often seen the pocket collapses from one side so the QB runs the opposite direction to buy time or knows the interior chip block will give him a place to climb the ladder in the pocket. So much of our secondary problem stems directly from not getting fast pressure on the QB.

[thebluefood]

Not having first round picks completely changes the landscape.

Our priorities at the moment go like this;

#1 Safety

#2 MLB (to replace Fletch when he retires)

#3 CB

Agreed. I think we have enough, from an offensive standpoint, to win (though maybe not enough to completely dominate). Right now, we need to concentrate on our defense. It was a miracle that the Giants only scored 16 points on Monday and we can't depend on miracles to win the NFC East. With a strong defense, we can rule the division with an iron fist.

[Warpath11]

People seem to be neglecting the need for a classic 3-4 nose. That would allow Cofield to shift to an end, and have a decent rotation with Cofield between nose (to spell the new guy), Carriker, Bowen, Jenkins and Golston (who has played fairly well, from what I've seen). Or, if Neild is healthy and shows growth, Cofield could become a full time end in rotations with the others. That will take care of how plodding and slow the DL looks from time to time. They're on the field way too long.

IMO the classic NT is slowly disappearing in todays game. Im all for shifting Cofield to end but I dont think you can spend a value draft pick on a player that is only good for 2 downs (your classic mountain man NT). Now-a-days NT have to be able to stay on the field on all 3 downs which is what Cofield does. Getting the run stuffing mountain of a man NT can be found in the later rounds or as UDFAs (Chris Baker/Nelid). I want to have an impact NT that can stop the run and still be a presence in nickle situations (i.e. Haoli Ngata). Again if a classic NT is available and he happens to have great athleticism and ability to push the pocket on passing downs I am all for drafting said guy (generally those guys are picked very early)

Stevemcqueen1 (from the draft thread) puts in much better but my feelings are the same:

My thought is that the 2 down nose is going the way of the dinosaur. Teams throw on first and second down more than they run now. Teams will throw the ball 50+ times a game and run it less than 20. If a defensive lineman wants to see the field often, he needs to have value against the pass and he needs to be able to play multiple techniques.

You see it in the proliferation of 2 man lines in the 3-4. Some would almost be better called a 2-5-4 or a 2-4-5. There is no 0 or 1 technique in those alignments.

It's one of the reasons I think John Jenkins is wildly overrated when he's talked about as a first rounder. A smart team doesn't take a player whose only going to play 20 to 25 snaps a game in the first round.

So unless Geathers has value against the pass, I don't see any point in taking him. We're find with Cofield/Jenkins/Baker/Neild in the mix at the nose on running plays. We've been a really good run defense this year.

But if you're wonder who the best interior style tackles are, I think the list goes

1.) Lotuleilei

2.) Hankins

3.) Short

Short would be a good pick because he might make it to us in the second round, he fits the scheme well, he can play each spot on the DL, and he has value against the pass.

[KDawg]

IMO the classic NT is slowly disappearing in todays game. Im all for shifting Cofield to end but I dont think you can spend a value draft pick on a player that is only good for 2 downs (your classic mountain man NT). Now-a-days NT have to be able to stay on the field on all 3 downs which is what Cofield does. Getting the run stuffing mountain of a man NT can be found in the later rounds or as UDFAs (Chris Baker/Nelid). I want to have an impact NT that can stop the run and still be a presence in nickle situations (i.e. Haoli Ngata). Again if a classic NT is available and he happens to have great athleticism and ability to push the pocket on passing downs I am all for drafting said guy (generally those guys are picked very early)

Wholeheartedly disagree with almost all of this post.

The classic nose isn't disappearing from the game any time soon. There's a reason why they are so valued. A nose who can demand a double team and establish the LOS in the backfield is nearly invaluable. No player has to be able to stay on the field for all three downs. That's why you have depth, and other options. The traditional nose wouldn't have to be used in a Psycho set. Haloti Ngata is a traditional nose. But he's also an elite, elite, elite player. We need a guy who can demand a double and establish the LOS in the opponent backfield on every down that our coordinator deems necessary.

Cofield can play the nickel/Psycho role inside just fine. So he can keep that role.

You can and should spend a "value draft pick" (What does this mean? Aren't all draft picks valuable?) on a nose tackle if he gives you an opportunity to improve and he's the BPA on your board.

[Warpath11]

Wholeheartedly disagree with almost all of this post.

The classic nose isn't disappearing from the game any time soon. There's a reason why they are so valued. A nose who can demand a double team and establish the LOS in the backfield is nearly invaluable. No player has to be able to stay on the field for all three downs. That's why you have depth, and other options. The traditional nose wouldn't have to be used in a Psycho set. Haloti Ngata is a traditional nose. But he's also an elite, elite, elite player. We need a guy who can demand a double and establish the LOS in the opponent backfield on every down that our coordinator deems necessary.

Cofield can play the nickel/Psycho role inside just fine. So he can keep that role.

You can and should spend a "value draft pick" (What does this mean? Aren't all draft picks valuable?) on a nose tackle if he gives you an opportunity to improve and he's the BPA on your board.

By high value draft pick i mean a first or second round draft pick. Not sure if you saw the edit above but I would never spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a player that does not have the ability to play all 3 downs and various postions/techniques along the DL (ala Haoli Ngata). Like you said he does not have to play all 3 downs but it is smart to grab a player that can with those early high value draft picks.

[Wildbunny]

Not having first round picks completely changes the landscape.

Our priorities at the moment go like this;

#1 Safety

#2 MLB (to replace Fletch when he retires)

#3 CB

I would add a NT to that list. I like Cofield and Neild, but we could upgrade the situation we have right now.