Did Greg Williams secretly take over the defense during bye week?

[martytheman]

we were going against the worst oline in the league, lets not get ahead of ourselves

Did you not watch the game? Blindside corner blitzes, blitzing linebackers stunting up the middle, overloads on one side or the other..

these were all things the skins were NOT doing previously to try and generate pressure.. sorry o-line or not.

[SWFLSkins]

Oh please don't ignite this powder keg... Raheem is not calling plays on defense, nor is he our d coordinator. this was a well called game by Haslett- he should be receiving some credit.

Credit given where credit is due, I see no real reason to give Haslett credit for this sudden game plan change after the bye. And please explain why Morris was seen looking at pics with the DL and pointing and gesturing,, was he cluing them in on where the DB's would be>? In fact the whole secondary was playing differently as well. Not just with Merriweathers presence either, when Gomes was in as well.

---------- Post added November-21st-2012 at 08:18 AM ----------

Did you not watch the game? Blindside corner blitzes, blitzing linebackers stunting up the middle, overloads on one side or the other..

these were all things the skins were NOT doing previously to try and generate pressure.. sorry o-line or not.

Right and it happened after the bye, adjustment time, It also was a strange coincidence to some that Raheem was spotted talking with other D units.

[KingGibbs]

Paging Lavarleap.

Paging Lavarleap.

[SWFLSkins]

Paging Lavarleap.

Paging Lavarleap.

Good point King, I would like some insider insight into just what changes or adjustments were made. Our D has looked vanilla up until this game, and you mean to tell me that suddenly they decided to mix it up and stunt and overload the ends? There was some terrible stat out there on a Cowboy site about how you could nearly guarantee where on a passing down Ryan Kerrigan was going to be? If Haslett waited until week 11 to make adjustments he should be fired on that alone considering the D's performance.

[wrecker]

No, Greg Williams would never rush 7 on 2nd and 20 and give up 23.

[SWFLSkins]

If we do it against Dallas then maybe, but against a terrible oline with a rookie qb? Nah

Uhm, think we where just brave because we know there is a rookie QB and a cupcake line. Let´s wait and see how this works against the ´boyz.

We'll see won't we? If they go backwards again you guys are right, however if they line up the way they were against Philly and actually getting pressure on Romo sits to pee then it is obvious major adjustments were made during the bye.

[RandyHolt]

Like I said, we might have brought more pressure straight up the middle, but that isn't really exotic or surprising or anything.

...)

All good points, but seeing Haslet not leaving his vulnerable DB's on an island with yet another game without pressure (nor even significantly attempting to pressure a QB) on a rookie is enough to go gaga over. Seeing Haslet doing ANYTHING different, if only copying other teams, is a sign of progress for the leagues lame duck D.

We were 0-8 against rookie QB's, Getting that ugly ugly goose egg off the board has me elated.

Haslet rarely brings the heat. Certainly not bringing the heat was failing us. I agree teams with good blitz pickups kill predictable blitzes, but when a guy barely even blitzes and is getting schooled, he really has nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

We dont need to blitz every pass play, but he become far too predictable by only dialing up a delayed ILB blitz friggin 4 times a game.

I think being 3-6, sweat dripping off his temple, likely made him blitz vs Philly, more than seeing other teams blitzing. Other teams have been blitzing more than us all year I suspect, and he didnt copy them then.

[zCommander]

I think I may have not been clear with the OP. I wasn't making a statement about our defense suddenly being good. It was the Eagles, starting a rookie QB, and half a team that probably had already quit. I get it.

I am just talking about specific differences in how it seemed the defense was mixing up different ways to manufacture a Pass rush. The D-line still wasn't making it happen, per usual, but the difference was the blitzing was much more exotic, bringing pressure from different directions. Stuff like that.

I get what you are saying. But I think it was because they knew they could knowing that a ROOKIE QB was at the helm and not Tom Brady. A veteran QB is going to burn you even on the pass rush regardless of how different the scheme looks. Plus their O-LINE being a suspect. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try this with a season QB though.

[PeterMP]

All good points, but seeing Haslet not leaving his vulnerable DB's on an island with yet another game without pressure (nor even significantly attempting to pressure a QB) on a rookie is enough to go gaga over. Seeing Haslet doing ANYTHING different, if only copying other teams, is a sign of progress for the leagues lame duck D.

We were 0-8 against rookie QB's, Getting that ugly ugly goose egg off the board has me elated.

Haslet rarely brings the heat. Certainly not bringing the heat was failing us. I agree teams with good blitz pickups kill predictable blitzes, but when a guy barely even blitzes and is getting schooled, he really has nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

We dont need to blitz every pass play, but he become far too predictable by only dialing up a delayed ILB blitz friggin 4 times a game.

I think being 3-6, sweat dripping off his temple, likely made him blitz vs Philly, more than seeing other teams blitzing. Other teams have been blitzing more than us all year I suspect, and he didnt copy them then.

They've done more things than in years past since Orakpo got hurt. I've seen more stunts (last year I didn't see a single stunt). I've actually seen them flip flop Kerrigan and Alexander (last year I never saw them flip flop Kerrigan and Orakp). I've seen them bring the safety some more off the edge.

I haven't seen any of really result in more pressure until the Eagles game.

[allskinz]

No, Greg Williams would never rush 7 on 2nd and 20 and give up 23.

You got that right..

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Redskins D has a good game

"Oh it's nothing, that team sucks and Raheem is calling plays now."

Redskins D has a bad game

"OMFG SOMEONE FIRE HASLETT AND RAHEEM AND SHANAHAN MUST GO THIS D SUCKS"

Stay medium.

[Mahons21]

Suddenly our defense was using alternative ways to manufacture a pass rush.

Why it took to the bye week to adjust to a D-line that is not generating sacks is questionable, but I really hope this is a sign of things to come.

It really felt like watching Greg William's scheme out there on the field, blitzes coming from different directions. Sending cornerbacks on the QB's blindside.

Doing what it took to create QB pressure with the personnel you have.

Don't you think it had something to do with the state of the Eagles o-line too though?

I've seen these blitzes all year, they just haven't come with frequency because they haven't been successful at getting to the QB, and left a weak secondary even more susceptible to the big play.

If you bring blitzes successfully, certainly you're going to see more of them. If you continue to blitz and teams keep picking it up, you'll get torn apart. Haslett has been in the position more often than not this year, that even when he brings blitzes they get picked up, and no one is winning their 1 v 1 match-ups on top of it.

I'd argue that this game is evidence that Haslett actually can scheme a descent defense, he just needs a higher level of talent to do so. When his defense was on a more even playing field (in terms of talent across the o-line) as they were this past weekend, they looked pretty damn good.

[RVAbrendan]

Just a question... why doesn't Haslett practice the LBs and DBs "mulling around" before the snap, a la the Steelers? They seem to confuse offenses because they can't scope out what coverage will be.

[SWFLSkins]

Redskins D has a good game

"Oh it's nothing, that team sucks and Raheem is calling plays now."

Redskins D has a bad game

"OMFG SOMEONE FIRE HASLETT AND RAHEEM AND SHANAHAN MUST GO THIS D SUCKS"

Stay medium.

Medium would cut it, but this D has not even dreamed of the heights of medium. And yeah anything is better than worse.

[Henry]

No mention of Meriweather's presence yet in this thread?

Gregg Williams' defenses were so good here because he had good safeties, so that even with a mediocre DL he could generate pressure if he had to without getting burned in the secondary. Last Sunday, for a glorious half a game, we had a good safety in there, and in a stunning coincidence we were able to generate pressure without worrying about getting burned.

I wouldn't expect to see that again tomorrow. Sorry.

[SWFLSkins]

Just a question... why doesn't Haslett practice the LBs and DBs "mulling around" before the snap, a la the Steelers? They seem to confuse offenses because they can't scope out what coverage will be.

Great question I would like to ask him as well. There is no confusing movement of alignment. And as I posted earlier you can pretty plan on where Kerrigan is coming from on any passing down. If he is your best past rusher and you are allowing him to be outed and chipped or doubled, you are well, incompetent. And that is what we have right now, an incompetent D.

---------- Post added November-21st-2012 at 10:00 AM ----------

Haslett got riskier b/c his job is on the line and/or he trusted his secondary more after talking with each of them and with Merriweather in there. Hopefully even w/o Merriweather we keep up the pressure. The DBs kept their end of the bargain, so Haslett needs to keep calling up the blitzes.

Credit given where credit is due, I see no real reason to give Haslett credit for this sudden game plan change after the bye. And please explain why Morris was seen looking at pics with the DL and pointing and gesturing,, was he cluing them in on where the DB's would be>? In fact the whole secondary was playing differently as well. Not just with Merriweathers presence either, when Gomes was in as well.

No mention of Meriweather's presence yet in this thread?

Gregg Williams' defenses were so good here because he had good safeties, so that even with a mediocre DL he could generate pressure if he had to without getting burned in the secondary. For a glorious half a game we had a good safety in there, and in a stunning coincidence we were able to generate pressure without worrying about getting burned.

I wouldn't expect to see that again tomorrow. Sorry.

While I don't entirely disagree with your point, it is obvious something was being done differently all over the D and especially upfront.

[Mahons21]

Just a question... why doesn't Haslett practice the LBs and DBs "mulling around" before the snap, a la the Steelers? They seem to confuse offenses because they can't scope out what coverage will be.

Because this requires dynamic skillful players at these positions. Guys like Timmons are both better in coverage and better at blitzing than Fletcher/Riley, same can be said for Harrison and Woodley in comparison with Kerrigan/Jackson.

You need talent to run a dynamic defense. It's not logical to put a defense in a complex play design/call, when that same defense has shown they can't even execute some of the most basic plays. When you're mulling guys around as you suggest, it puts the defender at a disadvantage because said player is disguising what they're doing and will have to cover more ground. Furthermore, PIT has defensive linemen that are dynamic as well, when we have 5-tech DE's we can drop into coverage on a zone-blitz as PIT does with Keisel, then you'll see a much more complex D.

Hypothetical:

Redskins guys are mulling around at the LOS, london is in between gaps but his assignment is to cover the TE in man/or middle 1/3 underneath. Snap comes TE takes off down the seam and London who's already proven to be liability in coverage is already chasing him from behind.

Could the confusion have caused the QB to look somewhere else? Certainly. But if it doesn't, and the blitz that is brought doesn't get to the QB (as so many of the Redskins don't), you're going to see London get beat.

[RVAbrendan]

Because this requires dynamic skillful players at these positions. Guys like Timmons are both better in coverage and better at blitzing than Fletcher/Riley, same can be said for Harrison and Woodley in comparison with Kerrigan/Jackson.

You need talent to run a dynamic defense. It's not logical to put a defense in a complex play design/call, when that same defense has shown they can't even execute some of the most basic plays. When you're mulling guys around as you suggest, it puts the defender at a disadvantage because said player is disguising what they're doing and will have to cover more ground. Furthermore, PIT has defensive linemen that are dynamic as well, when we have 5-tech DE's we can drop into coverage on a zone-blitz as PIT does with Keisel, then you'll see a much more complex D.

Hypothetical:

Redskins guys are mulling around at the LOS, london is in between gaps but his assignment is to cover the TE in man. Snap comes TE takes off down the seam and London who's already proven to be liability in coverage is already chasing him from behind.

Could the confusion have caused the QB to look somewhere else? Certainly. But if it doesn't, and the blitz that is brought doesn't get to the QB (as so many of the Redskins don't), you're going to see London get beat.

You make some good points, but, if London were to know his coverage, I can't see how being set vs. not would have that much of an impact on coverage. He already knows what he needs to do. Obviously, greater talent will help, regardless...but the only real disadvantage I would see would be a fake safety blitz, for instance.

I'm not a guru and don't claim to be, but it just seems logical to me that at least trying to disguise coverage would only help our sub-par talent pool at this point...

[Mahons21]

You make some good points, but, if London were to know his coverage, I can't see how being set vs. not would have that much of an impact on coverage. He already knows what he needs to do. Obviously, greater talent will help, regardless...but the only real disadvantage I would see would be a fake safety blitz, for instance.

I'm not a guru and don't claim to be, but it just seems logical to me that at least trying to disguise coverage would only help our sub-par talent pool at this point...

It's not being set it's his position on the field. From his standard position he's playing a few yards off the LOS, and he can read and react to what he see's in front of him, it also allows for him to back-pedal.

When you're mulling around, for the most part you're going to have 6-7 guys stacked at the LOS, so London has already lost a few yards. In order to make up that ground he's going to have to get to his position so fast that back-pedaling and the ability to watch the play so he can read and react become much more difficult.

I totally understand your logic behind it and it's frustrating watching other teams do it with such success yet few to no attempts at it for the Skins.

Just think of any sports you've played/coached in your days, when you were on one of the teams that couldn't get it together did the coach or did you as the coach make things more complex for the squad? Or did you/they try and make things simpler?

[PeterMP]

No mention of Meriweather's presence yet in this thread?

Gregg Williams' defenses were so good here because he had good safeties, so that even with a mediocre DL he could generate pressure if he had to without getting burned in the secondary. Last Sunday, for a glorious half a game, we had a good safety in there, and in a stunning coincidence we were able to generate pressure without worrying about getting burned.

I wouldn't expect to see that again tomorrow. Sorry.

Realistically, it wasn't just the safeties. When that D was healthy it had several good to very good players. For my money, as best as you as can compare a 3-4 to a 4-3 that D was better at every position.

As a 4-3 DE, Carter was a better pass rusher than anybody playing on this team (I guess Orakpo MIGHT be as good, but he isn't playing). Griffin was a better interior DL than anybody on this team (in the scheme they are playing). Springs was a better CB than anybody on this team. Fletcher then was better than Fletcher now.

[cphil006]

Instead of playing with 9 guys like we had all season, we played with 10 because Merriweather played and played lights out.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Instead of playing with 9 guys like we had all season, we played with 10 because Merriweather played and played lights out.

I am hearing Crawford may get a look this game. Merryweather looked great and brought a spark that was contagious.

[skinnyskins]

No mention of Meriweather's presence yet in this thread?

Gregg Williams' defenses were so good here because he had good safeties, so that even with a mediocre DL he could generate pressure if he had to without getting burned in the secondary. Last Sunday, for a glorious half a game, we had a good safety in there, and in a stunning coincidence we were able to generate pressure without worrying about getting burned.

I wouldn't expect to see that again tomorrow. Sorry.

Worries me too.

The Dallas OL is as bad as the Eagles so at least we have that going for us.

[garyclarkforhall]

I think this is the kind of defense Haslett wanted to play all along. Unfortunately, when you run schemes that are somewhat high risk and you get burned EVERY time because of execution or a lack of talent, you get vanilla.

The week off probably gave him an opportunity to decide that sitting back was a slow death... at least pressure offers risk-reward.

We will probably give up points but at least there's the possibility of turnovers to compensate if we play this style.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just a question... why doesn't Haslett practice the LBs and DBs "mulling around" before the snap, a la the Steelers? They seem to confuse offenses because they can't scope out what coverage will be.

Probably because we consider it a small victory just to have all 11 guys lined up in the right place.

I'm only kidding...I'd love to see us attempt to scheme around some of our weaknesses...go down swinging and empty the bag of alignments, blitzes, etc.