Leonard Hankerson: Patience

[AzSkinsFan63]

I'm most concerned with his fear factor..He looks totally afraid out there and will not go over the middle and short hands a lot of stuff.

[jly0784]

This thread asks for patience in judging Hankerson. You can be patient if you like. I'm calling him a bust. I hope I'm wrong, but I will be patient until he's cut. I have no choice.

do you call roddy white a bust? how about brandon marshall? how about dwayne bowe or desean jackson? each one of them has over 25 drops the past 3 seasons.... it happens, everyone drops the ball from time to time, you can be patient til hes cut, and ill be patient til i can say told ya so and shut you up

[Voice_of_Reason]

Aldrick tried to lay out for that deep ball but his hand was getting grabbed by the corner.

I'm starting to think we should just never draft wide receivers for all the "THESE GUYS WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING SPECIAL!" talk. Because what's even the point? If they're not Pro Bowlers right away, why even keep them around?

Clearly the best way to get talent is by trading draft picks when we're working without first round picks. Because that's worked so well in the past...

You know, there has been so much talk on the boards about not having a legit QB since, well, at least Rypien, that people forget that our WR crew has been basically just as crap for 20 years as well. There have been a few high points, like Moss in 2005, and Westbrook and AC had a good year or two. But in general, the WR play has been abysmal.

Toss in failures like Thomas and Kelly, and now you get a pretty anxious fan base.

And then toss in that it looks like we've FINALLY got a QB, a RB, and the OL is better than expected, and there is little patience for WR growth.

And finally, fans want the team to win, patience or not, primarily because of how well RGIII is playing. And up to this point, the WRs have been doing their job. They all had a bad game on Sunday.

The real problem isn't drops, it's the defense couldn't stop the Langley HS offense at the moment.

Hankerson has had HUGE drops. PLURAL. He's a WR. Second season. ???

I can guarantee my niece could have caught that drop. No excuse.

Am I missing something?

Actually, Hank hasn't had that many huge drops. The one on Sunday actually turned out to be nothing, because they scored a TD on a drive later.

If you want to find the receiver who had had the most crushing drops over the past 7 years, he wears #89. He has consistently dropped or fumbled at the absolute worst times in games. He also makes up for it with some great catches. But he's been the culprit more times than not on just awful drops. And he had 2 more this past weekend. And his fumble ended the Giants game.

He can be solid, but I have yet to see anything that indicates he will be anything more than just a guy. Admittedly, he's still very young.

How about he gets a full 16 games with a real QB to figure out how good he can be? Also, something to remember, he missed the ENTIRE off season with his hip issue. He didn't start practicing until training camp. And last year, there wasn't an off season.

I think a full off season with RGIII and the other WRs will do miracles for him.

He has potential but damn catching the ball is a wideout's primary job.

Agree here. One of my biggest pet peeves in all of football is dropped passes. If it hits you in the hands, catch the damn ball. Everything I've said above is more about his ability to get open, make plays, etc. But he's GOT to catch the ball.

I think he's a talented enough guy. I don't think he's what a lot of people wanted him to be: a top tier receiver. He gets in and out of his breaks a little slow, but he's got a little more speed than people give him credit for. I don't think he moves great laterally.

His hands have been a question mark since his Miami days. He does a good job of getting open even though his routes are a little sloppy because he sells other routes well. But he needs to master all four elements of the catch. That's his weakest aspect of his game and it always has been.

I think that he's going to probably catch so many balls this off season his hands will be raw. That's the benefit of the OTAs and Mini-Camps, none of which he's ever been able to attend. He should be able to work 1-1 with a bunch of coaches, and they should be able to get this fixed.

Agree 100% his skillset and size are much better suited running in the slot against 3DB and LB than it is on the outside. He can still motion out and go deep like Moss does to blow the top off defenses. I think Robinson can be a big player in this offense if handled correctly.

Aldrick isn't as quick as Moss. Having somebody who can back up Garcon is critical. The problem is that they need somebody to stretch the field. Robinson has that ability. He's just got to mature and use it.

Moss and Hankerson both stink, but Moss was once good. Hankerson has been dropping passes since the third grade.

Moss doesn't stink, he's been the best WR they've had for almost a decade. He still is able to use his quickness to get open. The biggest issue with Moss is his absolutely untimely drops and fumbles. It means that he's not elite, but he's far from sucking. And to say that a WR picked in the 3rd round, who didn't have the benefit of an off season last year or this year due to lockout and injury, is a bit pre-mature.

[Oldfan]

do you call roddy white a bust? how about brandon marshall? how about dwayne bowe or desean jackson? each one of them has over 25 drops the past 3 seasons.... it happens, everyone drops the ball from time to time, you can be patient til hes cut, and ill be patient til i can say told ya so and shut you up

Those receivers you mention have all been very productive. Hank hasn't. You are asking me to compare apples to oranges.

If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to admit it. And you can say 'I told you so' when that happens. But, for right now, you are just another poster making another dumb argument.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 02:53 PM ----------

...Moss doesn't stink, he's been the best WR they've had for almost a decade. He still is able to use his quickness to get open. The biggest issue with Moss is his absolutely untimely drops and fumbles. It means that he's not elite, but he's far from sucking. And to say that a WR picked in the 3rd round, who didn't have the benefit of an off season last year or this year due to lockout and injury, is a bit pre-mature.

We disagree on level of incompetence required to label it "suckitude." We also disagree on how much time it takes to judge WR talent. I judged Hank to be lacking in natural talent in August of last year. He hasn't shown anything since to cause me to change my mind. You don't learn to acquire natural talent.

[GO HAMSKINS]

UnWise Mike nick name for Briscoe ...Is Devin Crisco buahahah!!!

[Botched]

We disagree on level of incompetence required to label it "suckitude." We also disagree on how much time it takes to judge WR talent. I judged Hank to be lacking in natural talent in August of last year. He hasn't shown anything since to cause me to change my mind. You don't learn to acquire natural talent.

I think I agree with everything you've said in this thread.

Players with great natural talent make their game look easy. Hank makes playing wide receiver look like rocket surgery.

[Hitman21ST]

Those receivers you mention have all been very productive. Hank hasn't. You are asking me to compare apples to oranges.

All those other receivers have also played a full season.

Roddy White's first two seasons are relatively close to Hank's: 59 Receptions, 952 yards, 3 TDs.

Marshall's first season was very similar: 20 receptions, 309 yards, 2 TDs

Sometimes it takes time for receivers to come into their own. Just because you judged him to be lacking doesn't mean he is. I choose to go by his entire career, college included, and the natural talent is there. You don't go setting records at Miami and not have natural talent.

[justice98]

He's maybe worthy of a roster spot until he develops, but if he's gonna be our starter, then we're pretty deficient relative to the competition.

But if Garcon is out there at 100%, and Morgan and Moss are out there, maybe Hank isn't and his deficiencies aren't exposed as much. He's probably playing when he shouldn't be.

And on a side note, I'm still waiting on that jump ball to Hank or Brisco. We've got two relatively tall receivers whose height we don't exploit.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

One guy I'd like to see (who does seem to be smooth and have great ball skills) is Aldrick Robinson. The plays he makes do seem more effortless than Hankerson's at this time. I certainly understand the eyeball test point that Oldfan is making but am holding out hope that Hankerson develops once he gets more comfortable.

[Oldfan]

All those other receivers have also played a full season.

Roddy White's first two seasons are relatively close to Hank's: 59 Receptions, 952 yards, 3 TDs.

Marshall's first season was very similar: 20 receptions, 309 yards, 2 TDs

Sometimes it takes time for receivers to come into their own. Just because you judged him to be lacking doesn't mean he is. I choose to go by his entire career, college included, and the natural talent is there. You don't go setting records at Miami and not have natural talent.

I didn't get to see Roddy White much in his rookie year. I saw Brandon Marshall in his rookie year and, despite his drops, my reaction was : "How in the the hell did that guy drop to the fourth round!?" He couldn't be covered one on one.

I'm talking about pro level natural talent. College level is another matter.

[Hitman21ST]

I didn't get to see Roddy White much in his rookie year. I saw Brandon Marshall in his rookie year and, despite his drops, my reaction was : "How in the the hell did that guy drop to the fourth round!?" He couldn't be covered one on one.

Hank hasn't really been stopped in single coverage either. The only one really stopping him is himself with the drops.

[Oldfan]

Hank hasn't really been stopped in single coverage either. The only one really stopping him is himself with the drops.

I haven't seen that.

[Hitman21ST]

I haven't seen that.

I've seen him running open and in covered in double coverage. From what I've seen he's generally had 1 to 2 yards of separation, either running a route or sitting in a hole in the defense.

[cphil006]

I haven't seen that.

haven't seen what, the drops or the coverage? He had a guy beat to the endzone on the would-be TD pass he dropped.

[Oldfan]

I've seen him running open and in covered in double coverage. From what I've seen he's generally had 1 to 2 yards of separation, either running a route or sitting in a hole in the defense.

I wasn't talking about separation. Cutler could toss the ball up even when Marshall appeared to be covered and he would come down with the ball. It was about body control and adjusting to the pass with the defender in his face. They are still doing it in Chicago.

[cphil006]

I wasn't talking about separation. Cutler could toss the ball up even when Marshall appeared to be covered and he would come down with the ball. It was about body control and adjusting to the pass with the defender in his face. They are still doing it in Chicago.

Cutler's a different style QB. Different play-calling, too.

I really think Hankerson is slowed from his hip injury. I think next season would be a better indicator of his progress. He wasn't cleared to participate in mini-camp was he? That hip can be a problem... hoping he gets more flexible and in great shape througout the season. He needs to improve.

[Oldfan]

haven't seen what, the drops or the coverage? He had a guy beat to the endzone on the would-be TD pass he dropped.

I said about Brandon Marshall as a rookie that I could see that he couldn't be covered one on one. It wasn't just about getting open. He would come down with balls even when he appeared well-covered. My point is that it is possible to see natural talent even in a rookie year that is not all that productive.

[KCClybun]

There goes those goalpost moving again...

[Voice_of_Reason]

[/color]We disagree on level of incompetence required to label it "suckitude." We also disagree on how much time it takes to judge WR talent. I judged Hank to be lacking in natural talent in August of last year. He hasn't shown anything since to cause me to change my mind. You don't learn to acquire natural talent.

Yeah, and if folks had judged Art Monk or Jerry Rice after their first few games, niether would have not gotten stellar reviews. Neither were prototypical in size or speed, both struggled early on. Both caught on, and eventually were HOF players.

What some folks are forgetting is that Hank actually worked his way from inactive onto the field last year, and was having a very good game when he was hurt and lost for the season. He spent the entire off season rehabbing from surgery, and is still learning and developing. He might not work out, and might be just another guy. But he also might turn into a good move-the-chains type of receiver.

Personally, I think it says a lot that he was able to battle last year in practice enough that he earned playing time. It wasn't given to him. Unlike some draft picks around here in years past where they were drafted and then given jobs, he had to earn his way on the field. Which he did last year, and was steadily improving before he was hurt and lost for the season.

If he doesn't work out, then it's a wasted third round pick. But if it does, we got a productive WR for low cost.

I also think that for a 3rd round pick, this is about what you get. You don't get size, speed, good hands and great route runner. Those guys go in the top 10-15 picks. What you get in the third round is some parts of that. So Hank has good size, ok rout running, below average hands, and ok speed. That's what you get there. Then you have to work with that player to improve aspects of their game so that they can be more productive. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Expecting a 3rd round pick to come in and be Randy Moss in his rookie year is foolish.

[Ghost of]

that people forget that our WR crew has been basically just as crap for 20 years as well. There have been a few high points, like Moss in 2005, and Westbrook and AC had a good year or two. But in general, the WR play has been abysmal.

I just wanted to throw in that Moss has had more than 2005 as a high point. The issue, for instance in 2006, was that Brunell was awful and Moss spent a lot of time going deep for a quarterback who was incapable of connecting down there (Campbell.) For all the crap Lloyd got here about his attitude, he would have succeeded had we a good QB situation.

And we also had Henry Ellard, who was past his peak prime but was still an awesome receiver and one of the best to ever lace them up. He had three 1,000 yard seasons here and excellent YPC averages. So, it has been crap here, you're right but we have had a FEW bright spots since 1992.

[BeefJerky]

The guy has played in 12 games total. So, no, I am not ready to give up on Hankerson yet. With a little more seasoning he will be just fine. Hail.

[Oldfan]

Yeah, and if folks had judged Art Monk or Jerry Rice after their first few games, niether would have not gotten stellar reviews. Neither were prototypical in size or speed, both struggled early on. Both caught on, and eventually were HOF players.

Monk was a prototypical possession receiver in size and speed. And one could see at once that he was a magnificent athlete. Rice was exactly the kind of receiver Walsh wanted for the WCO. He was the model for those that followed, a precis route runner who could get YAC.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Expecting a 3rd round pick to come in and be Randy Moss in his rookie year is foolish.

Yours is a strawman argument. I have explained my position which is simple to understand. It's not my position that Hankerson should be deemed a bust because he didn't come in his rookie season and perform like Randy Moss.

It's my position that it doesn't take long to assess natural talent.

[THEREALTOR1]

There goes those goalpost moving again...

I saw 'um moving

[Oldfan]

I saw 'um moving

Then you should be able to explain how they moved. I would appreciate it if you did.

[TheItalianStallion]

I just wanted to throw in that Moss has had more than 2005 as a high point. The issue, for instance in 2006, was that Brunell was awful and Moss spent a lot of time going deep for a quarterback who was incapable of connecting down there (Campbell.) For all the crap Lloyd got here about his attitude, he would have succeeded had we a good QB situation.

And we also had Henry Ellard, who was past his peak prime but was still an awesome receiver and one of the best to ever lace them up. He had three 1,000 yard seasons here and excellent YPC averages. So, it has been crap here, you're right but we have had a FEW bright spots since 1992.

Campbell connected on deep balls at a good rate in 2006 & 2007. 2008 was when his deep ball fell off a cliff, though it improved when he was in Oakland. Fair post otherwise.

Regarding Hank: the reports out of camp last year were that he was someone who would "fight for every ball." Perhaps he still hasn't fully recovered from the injury. As I understand it he still hasn't had a normal, full offseason. For that reason alone I think he has to be given at least until this time next year. Not to mention that he is on pace for around 600 yards, which is respectable for someone who is basically a rookie.