Poll: Do you think poor officiating this year has affected the outcomes of games more than usual?

[Commander PK]

Simple question, and I'm not just referring to the Redskins/Rams game, but the 2012 NFL season in general. Do you think the results of many games this year has been substantially different, more than in years past because of the poor officiating.

Not looking to have another debate about the merits of the NFL locking out the officials on either side of the argument. Take the question at face value.

[DogofWar1]

Not yet, but the season just started. They haven't blown any huge calls, but the issue more than anything is their failure to handle player effectively.

Eventually though, something major will most likely happen. Either they'll miss a few big calls (if the Rams had lost you can believe they'd be whining about the goal-line calls), or, worse, someone important will get beat up and injured.

I wonder how fast the regular refs would be back if Tom Brady or Eli Manning started getting smacked about late? Probably within a day or two.

[Commander PK]

For me, the games I have witnessed. I think all the 15 yarders that are not being called has clearly affected the outcomes of games. Not saying that the winning team would necessarily have lost, but BLATANT penalties like the two (Edit: that should have been called) on London and Fred clearly changed the flow of the game. I think the winning teams would have had to win by other means then they did.

Take the dirty cheap shot play by the Rams for instance. If they were getting flagged for every late cheap hit on our players, maybe the game gets out of hand at 21-6 and they never come back? Just sayin'

[Gart Monk]

All it takes is one call (or no call), at any point in the game, to affect the outcome. I remember the CHIvsGB game. The Bears had a good drive going and then got a 15yd unsportsmanlike penalty in the 2nd qtr. The GB player goated the Bear into the foul and it was a 25yd swing to GB. The Bears went to 3rd/long and never git over it.

To say its "bad officiating" is subjective. It's just different officiating. The players and coaches are making it worse by cheating and bullying.

The standings would definitely be different if they had the regular refs. With that said...Washington deserved to lose vs STL. The refs didnt make Robinson drop that ball. The refs didnt block that punt and they didnt make Morgan throw that ball.

[Commander PK]

The standings would definitely be different if they had the regular refs. With that said...Washington deserved to lose vs STL. The refs didnt make Robinson drop that ball. The refs didnt block that punt and they didnt make Morgan throw that ball.

Agreed, at the end it was what it was, and that was the hand the team was dealt. They didn't respond. They deserved to lose as a team.

As fans though, we can ask the legitimate question did the absence of legit calls earlier in the game before it came down to the Morgan penalty affect the outcome in a major way. I think it did. Not saying the Rams couldn't or wouldn't have won, but the outcome would have been different if the calls that should have been made were made. Maybe different mistakes are made. For me, I don't recall seeing so many legitimate calls missed. The Fred and London hits are the worst that immediately come to mind. Those are the types of calls, (or lack thereof) that change the course of a game. Does it happen when the regular refs are in. Absolutely, we complain about it every year, but does anybody really believe that the real NFL officials miss those blatant personal fouls? The helmet to helmet hits?

am I whining?

---------- Post added September-21st-2012 at 05:20 PM ----------

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2012/09/21/redskins-joshua-morgan-fined-for-throwing-ball-at-rams-cortland-finnegan/

And Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins was also fined $15,750 by the league for unnecessary roughness after his hit on Redskins tight end Fred Davis with 4:54 to play. Davis was trying to make a catch when Jenkins hit him, driving his right shoulder into Davis’ sternum as the tight end was landing.

The league didn’t rule it a helmet-to-helmet hit, as Redskins head coach Mike Shanahan insisted, but did confirm Jenkins hit a defenseless receiver.

An NFL spokesman also confirmed to The Washington Times that Rams defensive end Robert Quinn was fined $7,875 for unnecessary roughness for striking Redskins left tackle Trent Williams in the head, and left guard Quinn Ojinaka was fined $7,875 for unnecessary roughness for hitting linebacker London Fletcher late.

Notable plays that did not draw fines include Rams linebacker Jo-Lonn Dunbar striking Robert Griffin III in the head after the quarterback threw the ball away in the first quarter and Redskins cornerback Josh Wilson hitting Rams running back Daryl Richardson helmet-to-helmet with 4:11 remaining in the third quarter

Interesting. At least they fined them on the MAJOR violations. I will give credit where credit is due, but doesn't change the fact flags weren't thrown when they should have been.

How does the league decide which helmet to helmet hits are worth a fine, and which ones are not?

I also find it interesting that throwing a football at somebody is just as bad as striking them in the head.

[Gibbit]

Tough to say if its more than usual. There have always been bad calls that arent reviewable affecting the flow of a game.

What kills it is these guys seem scared to make a call. Penalty, Touchdown, whatever the situation. The game is too fast for them....they dont know if they saw, what they think they saw. They lack the confidence to shrug off a mistake and the challenge/review cant save them usually when they pull out that flag

[Commander PK]

What kills it is these guys seem scared to make a call. Penalty, Touchdown, whatever the situation. The game is too fast for them....they dont know if they saw, what they think they saw. They lack the confidence to shrug off a mistake and the challenge/review cant save them usually when they pull out that flag

Good point. I agree, this seems to be the case. I hadn't really thought about it that way, but yes they have been slow to call touchdowns as well.

[Rhodus333]

My main issue hasn't been with the calls the refs have or haven't made, but more with HOW LONG its taking them to make them. Ive never seen players standing around so much waiting for the officials to stutter out the call everyone in the stands already knows from ten minutes ago. For teams that run alot of no huddle offense i can see it becoming a huge issue affecting their tempo. Also it gives defenses much longer to get rested in between plays which im sure will affect goalline stances or short yardage situations

[theTruthTeller]

One would think that prior to this season, no one ever complained about the officiating. Unless their team lost, of course. I do agree that the coaches and players are taking advantage of the officials' insecurities.

[Bang]

I don't know that I've seen an actual game result affected by bad officiating.. but the season result could be.. the more these games get out of hand, the more players who will be lost, and that changes a team's fortunes.

By and large I think the regular refs do a fine job... their biggest problem is a burgeoning rulebook with too many situations that can cause a penalty, and too many penalties that require an on-field 'interpretation of the rule" that can cause mistakes.

~Bang

[Chew]

They haven't blown any huge calls, but the issue more than anything is their failure to handle player effectively.

.

I agree with this. They haven't had that one "oh my god" blown call that has directly impacted a late 4th quarter play, but there have been a lot of big offensive non-scoring plays that have been called back for bogus penalties, and have been complete drive killers. I've seen a bunch of O-lineman holding and no calls, and the secondaries are holding a lot as well. They've also lost control of several games. A lot of late hits and unsportsmanlike conduct going on, and they're not throwing the flags for it until its too late.

Not to mention how sometimes they take forever to spot the ball, and sometimes have to call an official's timeout to figure out what the hell is going on.

I like your point about one of the league's Wonder Boys getting rocked off (Brady, Eli, Rodgers). I'm sure there'd be some action then LOL.

[DCsportsfan53]

I think it's affected the product and presentation of it and player safety more than it has any individual games. They've been so wrong so often and so all over the place that I think, in the end, all teams have been victims of poor calls to the point where it's evened out. I certainly don't think I've watched a game yet this year where I felt the outcome would've been different had the officiating not been so poor.

For me it's more about the integrity of the game, how it's played, the control on the field and player safety. That's where these officials (really, the league, it's not their faults, they shouldn't be here) have really dropped the ball. It's also negatively affected the product, imo. All the jawing and shoving and punching after the whistles just doesn't look good and it takes away from the game.

[tibbidoe]

I enjoy overthinking these sort of questions, so here we go:

I say the poor officiating has cost us Carriker and Orakpo. Follow along, there's twisted logic that makes this make sense to me.

With all of the calls going like they have, the result was two very significant injuries to our front 7. The exact timing of things lead to those results.

Had the pretend refs caught even one of the many missed calls, everything that followed would have been at least slightly different. An extra holding call against the Rams would have changed their playcall on the next play, as the yards-to-go would have been different. So, this would have changed everything that followed (maybe not the outcome of the game, but some of the minor details).

I know the real refs miss calls, but the imaginary ones have missed more, lost control of the games, etc. Injuries happen to every team. So, I don't think there has been a single "holy ****" missed call, but they have impacted the overall outcome more than the regular refs.

***I know it's not exactly fair to blame them for this, but I'm currently choosing to ignore that fact***

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

In no sport put the outcome in the hands of the officials...bad things happen. I think the officiating has and will continue to effect the way teams play, thus possibly the outcome of the game.

[DCsportsfan53]

I enjoy overthinking these sort of questions, so here we go:

I say the poor officiating has cost us Carriker and Orakpo. Follow along, there's twisted logic that makes this make sense to me.

Ok, I really hope you're joking. Neither of those injuries had anything to do with missed calls or dirty plays, they just happened. As ridiculous as it is to me, for anyone who watched that game, to pin the loss on the refs this just steps it up to insane. Take a deep breath people, they outplayed us, the refs sucked for both teams, move on. If Aldrick catches that bomb and we win the entire board is talking about the cry baby Rams' fans who can't stop whining about the refs when they lost fair and square. I repeat, they let the game get far too chippy, they missed calls both ways but did not cause us to lose. The team did that themselves.

[tibbidoe]

Ok, I really hope you're joking. Neither of those injuries had anything to do with missed calls or dirty plays, they just happened. As ridiculous as it is to me, for anyone who watched that game, to pin the loss on the refs this just steps it up to insane. Take a deep breath people, they outplayed us, the refs sucked for both teams, move on. If Aldrick catches that bomb and we win the entire board is talking about the cry baby Rams' fans who can't stop whining about the refs when they lost fair and square. I repeat, they let the game get far too chippy, they missed calls both ways but did not cause us to lose. The team did that themselves.

I know. I'm just still mad at the refs (overall, not just in our games) and mad about the injuries, so I decided to put them together.

Of course the refs didn't really cause those injuries. It just makes me feel better to say that they did.

Stupid/dumb/ugly pretend refs costing us players and games and good gas mileage...

[THEREALTOR1]

Tough to say if its more than usual. There have always been bad calls that arent reviewable affecting the flow of a game.

What kills it is these guys seem scared to make a call. Penalty, Touchdown, whatever the situation. The game is too fast for them....they dont know if they saw, what they think they saw. They lack the confidence to shrug off a mistake and the challenge/review cant save them usually when they pull out that flag

We saw it in the majority of the games this past weekend refs not making clear concise decisions on obvious penalties. But whats more concerning is what we saw in the Skins/rams game, the eagles/ravens game, and the falcons/broncos, and that was once a few of these non-calls occurred, the opposing teams starting making decisions to take matters into their own hands. Its when these retaliations start to occur, that somebody is going to seriously get hurt. If you're a safety, and your watching the opposing teams safeties take cheap shots at your WR teammates while the O is out on the field, and the refs are don't anything about it, you might decide to get together with your other DB buddies, and the next time your D steps out on the field, your just going to layout one of the opposing teams WR's, or better yet, just take out their QB's knees with a cheap shot. Obviously its a retaliation for what the opposing team was doing, but if there were proper penalties being called to attempt to prevent it, you probably would think twice about retaliating at all (as it would've already been "handled" by proper penalties being incurred) , therefore the liability falls on the shoulders of the refs to properly enforce the rules of the game to insure the players don't attempt to take matters into their own hands.

My main issue hasn't been with the calls the refs have or haven't made, but more with HOW LONG its taking them to make them. Ive never seen players standing around so much waiting for the officials to stutter out the call everyone in the stands already knows from ten minutes ago. For teams that run alot of no huddle offense i can see it becoming a huge issue affecting their tempo. Also it gives defenses much longer to get rested in between plays which im sure will affect goalline stances or short yardage situations

The slow play is excruciating. Almost makes it unwatchable.

[Kostaskins]

Yes it has. The 1st Sunday night game on the double header. There was a blown call I believe a turnover incomplete but he scabs missed it an called a touchdown for the chargers.... That game then was a blow out game changer... And well list goes on and on

[ComManDersFan57]

Yes, the scab refs can't control the game. Without citing specifics, players are getting away with all kinds of infractions and the indecisiveness of the refs is ridiculous. There have also been a lot of fights over the past two weeks. It's more than missing a call or making a bad one, we've always had that. It's a matter of authority. The pretend refs don't have it. This completely changes the flow of the game which can affect the outcome.

[Dallsux]

I voted C.

While I think, Yes they have, I also believe that players are taking advantage of the fact that the replacements aren't able to keep up. That said, I believe that officiating has always had an affect on the outcome of games (not all games, but there is always a call/non-call we can look back on & say, "if not for that...").

For me, the issue hasn't been about the outcome of games....yet. It's about seeing these guys cheapshot each other & getting away with & the hypocrisy the League has displayed in their "concern" for player safety.

[skinsforlife101]

Yes, the awful offensive pass interference call that cost the Ravens the game in Philly and the horrible calls in our game vs the rams

[Dirt]

For what it's worth, after re-watching the game on NFL rewind, in condensed 'play by play' mode, the Rams WERE getting called for late hits/unsportsmanlike/unnecessary roughness. Like I saw 3-4 within 5 minutes.

So maybe it's not just the penalties themselves to 'keep the game under control', it's the veteran officials saying "enough's enough, one more and you're outta here". Maybe warning the coaches etc.

[KCClybun]

Do the regular refs make bad calls? Yeah.

But I think what we're seeing is just how much order they keep during the game. Do they miss a late hit or a holding call here and there? Sure. No referees are ever going to call a 100% game, and some rules are fuzzier than others.

What the replacement refs are showing is a supreme lack of experience and knowledge, and the players have no respect for them, and the coaches have no respect for them. They same terrified to call anything, it takes them forever to figure out the kind of penalties that seem like they'd be easy to call even in Division III, and they're intimidated to the point of inaction.

That's why Roger sent out that memo telling coaches and players not to yell at the refs. (Well that and Roger knows the wheels are falling off and he knows the product looks like **** but still is acting like he's in the right). These guys are shook, and it's not going to change.

---------- Post added September-22nd-2012 at 01:56 AM ----------

The veteran refs may make bad calls, but they keep the flow of the game, and they have players and coaches respect.

[Koolblue13]

Does the Pope **** in the woods?

Are bears Catholic?

[SkinFaninOKC]

I voted for not that simple. We are only two weeks into the season. The refs as a whole had a bad weekend, Saints this, fantasy that, our game that was out of control. I will take the stance that the replacements will work alot harder in week 3 and hopefully improve upon that week after week. These guys are getting thrown under the bus and probably for their own good. They don't want to go out there and look like a bunch of clowns. What isn't good for the out of work refs is the motivation that has been given to the replacements.