2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[KCClybun]

If they didn't want him Compton they wouldn't have had a problem letting him sign elsewhere. They gave him a raise a couple times to keep him, then activated him to the main roster when teams still tried to snatch him away.

Do we not know how this works? If Mike feels like a guy isn't ready, he's not going to force them to play early and expose him. This isn't new **** that just happened.

[DogofWar1]

^Right. Our linemen simply aren't expected, and generally don't, play their first year in the NFL. When we drafted LeRibeus, many questioned if he would be challenging for a starting spot, to which many who knew the system said "probably not, the ZBS takes time to learn." And sure enough, LeRib had very little play time last year, only logging a couple quarters near the end of the year, I think.

While the sample size is small, it's worth noting that of the 7 offensive linemen we've drafted, only 2 saw any serious action their rookie years, Trent Williams, and Maurice Hurt. The former was the #4 overall pick, so he better darn well have been playing, and the latter was there in place of an injured Kory Lich.

Perhaps Compton isn't the answer, but perhaps he is. I don't think we can make a judgment call in either direction yet, camp needs to start and we need to see some reports first.

[darrelgreenie]

Never made a prediction about Compton; I think predictions about players we haven't seen play in the NFL are silly.

My original statement lost in all the knee jerk Compton defense remains.

It's not logical to count Compton as a reason for not addressing the RT position with better resources based on the notion that the staff is 'high on him' when they didn't think enough of him to play to:

have him on the active roster for most of the season

have him ahead of a guy that was out of football

play him at OT even when they were thin b/c of injury

I'm not saying Compton is/isn't a bad/good player b/c there is no way to know.

I've said before that I thought he outplayed Polumbus last offseason.

But to say that the staff is high on a player they did not think was ready to play stretches logic especially if you are saying that Compton is the reason we didn't address RT with quality resources.

In my mind a healthy Pashos is the best answer for RT on the roster followed by Hurt (who isn't even a OT) then Compton/Nixon

[darrelgreenie]

Im pumped about Ryan Aplin, a read-option QB ArkSt, I liked as an UDFA got an invite to rookie camp.

Is rookie camp open to public?

[CoolHandLuke]

^Right. Our linemen simply aren't expected, and generally don't, play their first year in the NFL. When we drafted LeRibeus, many questioned if he would be challenging for a starting spot, to which many who knew the system said "probably not, the ZBS takes time to learn." And sure enough, LeRib had very little play time last year, only logging a couple quarters near the end of the year, I think.

While the sample size is small, it's worth noting that of the 7 offensive linemen we've drafted, only 2 saw any serious action their rookie years, Trent Williams, and Maurice Hurt. The former was the #4 overall pick, so he better darn well have been playing, and the latter was there in place of an injured Kory Lich.

Perhaps Compton isn't the answer, but perhaps he is. I don't think we can make a judgment call in either direction yet, camp needs to start and we need to see some reports first.

Good points and in Compton's defense, Maurice Hurt was a 7th or UDFA. The fact that his pay was raised compared to other PS players so he wouldn't sign elsewhere shows how highly they think of him.

[KCClybun]

Never made a prediction about Compton; I think predictions about players we haven't seen play in the NFL are silly.

My original statement lost in all the knee jerk Compton defense remains.

It's not logical to count Compton as a reason for not addressing the RT position with better resources based on the notion that the staff is 'high on him' when they didn't think enough of him to play to:

have him on the active roster for most of the season

have him ahead of a guy that was out of football

play him at OT even when they were thin b/c of injury

Did you just completely ignore everything DogOfWar just said?

He said that of the 7 offensive linemen we've drafted, only 2 have seen significant action in the regular season.

Mike has shown the same pattern with Leonard Hankerson, Aldrick Robinson, Evan Royster, Perry Riley, Terrence Austin, DeJon Gomes, Keenan Robinson. We did it with Willie Smith, we did it with Logan. If they don't feel you're ready to play, he won't play them. This isn't new. This isn't out of the ordinary.

You're ignoring what has happened on this team every year since Mike Shanahan has been here to make a bigger point about not buying into insider information saying the team is high on him. This despite the fact that they gave him a pretty substantial raise to keep him during the season, and then promoted him to the active roster when other teams kept trying to snag him (which also give you an idea that other teams think relatively highly of him too.)

And also despite the fact that Hitman21ST talked to Chris Foerster personally, who told him the team was high on Compton.

Don't really think the burden of evidence is on your side in this one, pal.

[TSO]

^^ Another more poignant example would be Will Montgomery. People were going nuts in 2010 as to why we kept starting Casey Rabach over Montgomery when it was clear he wasn't getting it done, but Mike wasn't going to put Montgomery in until he showed that he totally got the position down in practice. That had no bearing on how he felt about Montgomery or how "high" he was about his potential, just that he needed to see it first. It also had no bearing on how Mike viewed Rabach's play (he clearly wasn't satisfied). After Montgomery proved himself over a month of practice or something to that tune (I remember Mike actually saying specifically the amount of time), he started him over Rabach.

I think there is more to starting players than just talent with Mike. I think loyalty is also involved. Mike won't just bench a guy, even if he's struggling, and put in someone else until that someone else clearly shows the entire team that he's deserving of being put in. It's a good way of keeping competition fair as well as keeping guys true to the team. And properly motivated. Very few are just handed a job, and it seems like only QBs for the most part are (McNabb, RG3).

[DogofWar1]

I don't think the burden of proof is really on either side of the Compton debate at this point.

Normally I'd side with DG, I like to see things on the field with my own two eyes before signing off on a guy, but I think Shanahan's MO when it comes to linemen, and his history with those linemen, in addition to the positive remarks that have been made about Compton slides the burden of proof away from those of us supporting Compton. However, until Compton is actually starting games, or at least doing really well in practice, the burden of proof isn't on the more cautious people like DG.

I'm just very optimistic, but cautious.

[KCClybun]

I don't think the burden of proof is really on either side of the Compton debate at this point.

Normally I'd side with DG, I like to see things on the field with my own two eyes before signing off on a guy, but I think Shanahan's MO when it comes to linemen, and his history with those linemen, in addition to the positive remarks that have been made about Compton slides the burden of proof away from those of us supporting Compton. However, until Compton is actually starting games, or at least doing really well in practice, the burden of proof isn't on the more cautious people like DG.

I'm just very optimistic, but cautious.

It's not a case of wondering whether Compton is good enough start --- I think that's a situation worth monitoring.

It's a case of how high the team is on him or how much they like him. In this case, him not playing likely isn't because they think he's a bad player or not talented enough or whatever, but more follows an approach that has been used by Mike Shanahan in the past with several different players across several different position groups.

In that case it seems as though the team quite likes him to give him a substantial raise on the practice squad and then promote him to the 53 to keep other teams from taking him. They must like something about him.

To say that they team must not be high on him because he didn't play disregards all available information and history we have regarding Mike's approach to developing players.

[wilburmarshall]

I would like to get back to the WR debate; mainly why we didn't go after Da'Rick Rogers in the 7th rd or as an UFA.

The Skins were clearly a better team when Garçon was on the field. RGIII clearly would benefit from having another WR to rely on. Because of the trade to get RGIII, they did not have a #1 to trade for Harvin or to draft a WR. (BTW I not debating that we gave up to much for RGIII). We will not have a #1 next year & the FA crop for WR next year is thin.

Not many WR w/ the talent that Da'Rick has is available that late in the draft, or as UFA. If he had stayed clean, he would have been a 1st rd pick. I doubt Jamison will make the roster. Why didn't they take a shot @ Da'Rick? If he came in w/ a crappy attitude or work ethic, just cut your losses. A 7th rder is basically a UFA anyway.

[LD0506]

I usually just listen in this thread but I have to ask, if the team has Compton but he needed time/practice/seasoning before he got a shot, how does it help anything to get a draft/UDFA guy that is going to need time/practice/seasoning help us one bit this year? He'd be that same year behind the curve that Compton was last year, right? I can see people bangin' the drum for a RT but with the piggybank empty pursuing a starting RT in FA was out, what other viable options were there? Even if we had a high 1st and landed a top prospect, he'd be less than likely to start for Shanahan.

And Da'Rick? He's a Da'Mass, the simple fact that they wouldn't even consider him as a UDFA kinda shows that he has baggage like Jacob Marley.

[rk3025]

Shanahan likes players who have been in the system and Hurt had been in system and Gettis did not get on the field either but this year their thought pattern should be speeded up to get some experience.To get to the playoffs last year we could not afford to gamble on a game.Pashos gives us a known commodity as does Trueblood.

[Thinking Skins]

Not to be a smarty pants but what other way is there to solve needs rather than by the free agency and draft?

there's also trades.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2013 at 09:32 AM ----------

Never made a prediction about Compton; I think predictions about players we haven't seen play in the NFL are silly.

My original statement lost in all the knee jerk Compton defense remains.

It's not logical to count Compton as a reason for not addressing the RT position with better resources based on the notion that the staff is 'high on him' when they didn't think enough of him to play to:

I agree with you on this. I'm high on Compton and a few others (Chase, Crawford) based on things I've heard about them in practice, but having seen little of them for myself I don't actually know their game. Sure Compton could be a legit starter, but what are his pros and cons? Is he good against speed rushers? How's his run blocking? Pass blocking? Does he have a tendency to hold? What about false starts? How is he with injuries? Does he have any matchups where he just abuses his opponent? Does he have any matchups where he just gets abused?

I know this was a different coach, but I remember fans going crazy about Stephon Heyer because he was a UDFA who came in and played well, but we've seen now that he's not a legit starter, maybe a nice backup but he didn't fix the position.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2013 at 09:38 AM ----------

^^ Another more poignant example would be Will Montgomery. People were going nuts in 2010 as to why we kept starting Casey Rabach over Montgomery when it was clear he wasn't getting it done, but Mike wasn't going to put Montgomery in until he showed that he totally got the position down in practice. That had no bearing on how he felt about Montgomery or how "high" he was about his potential, just that he needed to see it first. It also had no bearing on how Mike viewed Rabach's play (he clearly wasn't satisfied). After Montgomery proved himself over a month of practice or something to that tune (I remember Mike actually saying specifically the amount of time), he started him over Rabach.

I think there is more to starting players than just talent with Mike. I think loyalty is also involved. Mike won't just bench a guy, even if he's struggling, and put in someone else until that someone else clearly shows the entire team that he's deserving of being put in. It's a good way of keeping competition fair as well as keeping guys true to the team. And properly motivated. Very few are just handed a job, and it seems like only QBs for the most part are (McNabb, RG3).

That's a good point to consider, but the fact that Hurt and Willie Smith played as rookies (more to necessity than to competition) means that Shanny isn't totally against it. I think the truth is that we don't know about Compton and why he wasn't put in. It could be as simple as you state it, but we also don't know how well he's developing and if Compton would lose in an open competition to Xavier or Polumbus (who I'm guessing that Shanny also likes). And we don't know if we have an elite RT on our roster.

[KCClybun]

I usually just listen in this thread but I have to ask, if the team has Compton but he needed time/practice/seasoning before he got a shot, how does it help anything to get a draft/UDFA guy that is going to need time/practice/seasoning help us one bit this year? He'd be that same year behind the curve that Compton was last year, right? I can see people bangin' the drum for a RT but with the piggybank empty pursuing a starting RT in FA was out, what other viable options were there? Even if we had a high 1st and landed a top prospect, he'd be less than likely to start for Shanahan.

I think that's assuming Nixon comes in and suddenly consumes a bulk of snaps. Nixon comes in at the back of the line. If he shows promise but is a little rough around the edges, he'll probably be put through a situation exactly like Compton, where he'll either go to the practice squad and be called up when the time is up, or he'll be on the roster but inactive on most days.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Thinkingskins, you're right that is a way to get a need but in a lot of instances you trade for a need and still have to make up for that loss. For example our bailey for Portia trade netted us a rb that we needed but we lost a great cb. Revis for 1 round pick and whatever else but they had to spend that 1st on another cb so they didn't gain only but so much.

Draft and free agency are the prime ways to reach needs and it's why you don't see too many trades.

[LD0506]

I think that's assuming Nixon comes in and suddenly consumes a bulk of snaps. Nixon comes in at the back of the line. If he shows promise but is a little rough around the edges, he'll probably be put through a situation exactly like Compton, where he'll either go to the practice squad and be called up when the time is up, or he'll be on the roster but inactive on most days.

Exactly what I thought, so one way or the other we're going to ride with a RT that's on the roster.

[DogofWar1]

I doubt Jamison will make the roster.

While I respect your skepticism, Alfred Morris sent many a person to the burn ward for similar comments. Shanahan specifically said he loved Jamison being there and that he was a steal there.

Why didn't they take a shot @ Da'Rick? If he came in w/ a crappy attitude or work ethic, just cut your losses. A 7th rder is basically a UFA anyway.

My guess is the front office just straight up took him off their board.

ESPN's intangibles rating section gave him a 5 (scale of 1 to 5, 1 being best, 5 being worst):

Pronounced: DAY-rick. Maturity level and mental makeup are significant concerns. Originally committed to Georgia. Flipped to Tennessee late in 2010 signing process. Arrested for his role in a bar brawl involving multiple Tennessee football players in summer of 2010. Spotted shouting at former Tennessee WR coach Charlie Baggett on the sideline during a loss to Kentucky in 2010. Baggett has since retired (with severance package). Reportedly considered transferring during 2012 spring but rejoined the team in April. Suspended indefinitely for violating team rules in August of 2012 and suspension stemmed from failed drug tests according to Rogers. Transferred to Tennessee Tech four days later.

While our coaching staff moved away from purely seniors/team captains, they still drafted reasonably high character guys. The only guy who had any serious problems was Rambo, and that was likely during his grieving period for his terrible personal tragedy.

Even Josh Jarboe, who we brought in as a UDFA, has been clean these last two years. Rogers' problems are very recent, and I'm guessing they felt he wasn't worth the risk, especially considering his problems aren't just drugs OR attitude, but apparently both.

Also, it's possible he might have been below Jamison in terms of skill anyway. Rogers was rated somewhere between the 3rd and 4th rounds, and it's possible our team wasn't as high skillwise, maybe having a lower grade than that. The team clearly felt they got steals, it's possible that everyone they drafted they had graded (when healthy) as 4th rounders and above. Amerson and Reed obviously, but Phillip Thomas was rated a 2nd or 3rd rounder most places. Rambo was rated a 3rd rounder most places. Jenkins' 2010-11 tape was 1st round worthy before his injury. And while I don't know where Thompson and Jamison were on their boards, it's not hard to believe that when healthy, the FO considered them mid-round picks. It wouldn't take much of a fall by Rogers to drop below all those guys.

I like Reed as an extra weapon for RGIII, and we're finally getting Hankerson a full offseason. They're also bringing in lots of UDFAs to see if anyone can compete, Chip Reeves, Skye Dawson, Nick Williams, Devonte Christopher, Josh Jarboe, and Jason Thompson. The starters for 2013 are in place, and they're looking for some depth and future developments.

I'm especially watching those last two names. Jarboe has a crazy story but he finally got clean two years ago and has stayed that way it seems, and he definitely has skills. As for Thompson, he played D-2 ball, but the guy had a 20 yard per catch average and was getting a TD a game.

[wilburmarshall]

Also, it's possible he might have been below Jamison in terms of skill anyway. Rogers was rated somewhere between the 3rd and 4th rounds, and it's possible our team wasn't as high skillwise, maybe having a lower grade than that. The team clearly felt they got steals, it's possible that everyone they drafted they had graded (when healthy) as 4th rounders and above. Amerson and Reed obviously, but Phillip Thomas was rated a 2nd or 3rd rounder most places. Rambo was rated a 3rd rounder most places. Jenkins' 2010-11 tape was 1st round worthy before his injury. And while I don't know where Thompson and Jamison were on their boards, it's not hard to believe that when healthy, the FO considered them mid-round picks. It wouldn't take much of a fall by Rogers to drop below all those guys.

I like Reed as an extra weapon for RGIII, and we're finally getting Hankerson a full offseason. They're also bringing in lots of UDFAs to see if anyone can compete, Chip Reeves, Skye Dawson, Nick Williams, Devonte Christopher, Josh Jarboe, and Jason Thompson. The starters for 2013 are in place, and they're looking for some depth and future developments.

I'm especially watching those last two names. Jarboe has a crazy story but he finally got clean two years ago and has stayed that way it seems, and he definitely has skills. As for Thompson, he played D-2 ball, but the guy had a 20 yard per catch average and was getting a TD a game.

I am just wondering where they will be able to find another WR? I understand the "high character guy" thing, but you need to take chances once in a while. If RGIII is a real leader, which I think he is, they need to see what type of influence he can have on troubled players. There have been quite a few troubled players on past SB champion teams; you just need to keep them in line. Victor Cruz's just don't fall out of trees. Not say I am right, I just thought they should have taken a shot on the kid.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think the burden of proof is really on either side of the Compton debate at this point.

Normally I'd side with DG, I like to see things on the field with my own two eyes before signing off on a guy, but I think Shanahan's MO when it comes to linemen, and his history with those linemen, in addition to the positive remarks that have been made about Compton slides the burden of proof away from those of us supporting Compton. However, until Compton is actually starting games, or at least doing really well in practice, the burden of proof isn't on the more cautious people like DG.

I'm just very optimistic, but cautious.

Its funny how things come full circle. Now I'm being painted as someone that dislikes Compton when next to GHH I have been his biggest proponent. I even thought he was outplaying Polumbus in pre-season last year. But the fact of the matter when push came to shove the staff chose to play Hurt (a player media/fans claimed was in danger of being cut in pre-season) the staff chose to play Hurt out of position at RT then put Compton on the field. That is simply the truth of the matter before people jump in with the 'Mike doesn't play mid/late round rookie OL' Hurt played the year as a rookie.

I'm not sure about all the push back, well except from NLC1054, about the truth to the staff being 'high' on Compton.

Imho if they were truely 'high' on him he would have played OT when the depth was stretched thin last year.

The staff is supposedly 'high' on Pugh but that didn't stop them from drafting 2 SAFs.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2013 at 10:11 PM ----------

Any word on Ryan Aplin or rooke mini-camp pictures?

[KCClybun]

I'm not sure about all the push back, well except from NLC1054, about the truth to the staff being 'high' on Compton.

Imho if they were truely 'high' on him he would have played OT when the depth was stretched thin last year.

The staff is supposedly 'high' on Pugh but that didn't stop them from drafting 2 SAFs

1.) It's not my fault that you like to ignore three years of history showing the coaching staff taking the same approach with multiple players across multiple position groups.

2.) Again, Compton is not a new case study in player development. How much playing time he got was not an indicator of how much they liked him anymore than it was for Perry Riley or Aldrick or Evan or any of the other guys who did not see extensive playing time in their rookie season. You keep ignoring that fact, but I understand why you do given the fact that it completely and utterly invalidates your argument. Just because something is your opinion doesn't make it right, especially when you've got demonstrable evidence to the contrary staring you in face like a machine designed to do nothing but stare human beings in the face.

3.) Who said that the team was high on Jordan Pugh?

[darrelgreenie]

NLC all you're doing is hiding behind your perception/assumption about a Mike Shanahan/FO trend (eg they won't draft Amerson b/c he's a JR) to rationalize a reality that doesn't match your view. Anyway you slice it, explain it or rationalize it Compton was not deemed good enough to be a 3rd string RT for us last year. And to be clear the quality of play from our RT from starter (Polombus) to back-up (Jordan Black) was poor. So it's not like Compton was playing behind world beaters. Heck as it turns out the staff went with Hurt over Compton when the bullets were flying.

And despite your claims to the contrary Mike/staff have played rookie mid/late round OL. Does Maurice Hurt ring a bell? Remember that guy who played as a rookie?

Talk about blowing holes in a thin argument.

3. Chris Russell and iirc Rich Campbell have said that Mike Shanahan is high on Jordan Pugh.

The FO did not address RT with premium resources but imho the idea that they passed on upgrading the position because they are 'high' on Compton belies football logic.

---------- Post added May-4th-2013 at 12:33 AM ----------

Or LeRibeus who played in 5 games including the bulk of the LG snaps in the playoffs.

[KCClybun]

NLC all you're doing is hiding behind your perception/assumption about a Mike Shanahan/FO trend (eg they won't draft Amerson b/c he's a JR) to rationalize a reality that doesn't match your view. Anyway you slice it, explain it or rationalize it Compton was not deemed good enough to be a 3rd string RT for us last year. And to be clear the quality of play from our RT from starter (Polombus) to back-up (Jordan Black) was poor. So it's not like Compton was playing behind world beaters. Heck as it turns out the staff went with Hurt over Compton when the bullets were flying.

See, here's the difference between me and you; I'll gladly eat crow. While I said several times that I thought it was possible we'd draft a junior, I didn't think they'd draft Amerson. I was wrong. I've warmed up to Amerson recently but I still have my reservations. But I was wrong. They drafted Amerson.

And despite your claims to the contrary Mike/staff have played rookie mid/late round OL. Does Maurice Hurt ring a bell? Remember that guy who played as a rookie?

I remember that Hurt only played after our hand was completely and utterly forced. When Kory went down with an injury, we slide Monty over to left guard and had Kyle Cook play center. We went with the "Trent-Monty-Cook-Chester-JB" line-up versus Philly (and then Trent got hurt and Locklear took his place). Then we went Locklear-Monty-Cook-Chester-JB versus the Panthers with limited success, and then we went with that combo versus the Bills and John Beck got sacked ten times. At which point we moved Monty back to center and Trent came back healthy, and only then did we start Hurt, less because he was ready and more out of necessity.

And I also remember Hurt straight up blowing blocking assignments and not playing very well until the very end of the season. He wasn't ready to play but he had to play. And didn't he miss a game with an injury and Polumbus had to play LG?

The FO did not address RT with premium resources but imho the idea that they passed on upgrading the position because they are 'high' on Compton belies football logic.

Everything I come at, I come at by trying to examine history and past behaviors, and trying to formulate reasoning behind that. I say that Shanny had only drafted senior classmen and that was a trend that was likely to continue. I was wrong. I can admit that I was wrong. But I had three years of Mike Shanahan drafting nothing but upperclassmen who were senior captains and award winners to back-up my thought process.

Likewise, I look at the Compton situation and I see a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe that his lack of playing time was not due the team not being high on him, but rather a pattern of behavior that shows that this front office is typically not in any rush to put players on the field and expose them to live action unless they feel they are ready.

They thought Josh was more ready to play than Compton was. I don't think that's an indictment of how they felt about Compton. Sometimes you get two players who are in different places in their learning process. Josh was ready for live bullets in their estimating and Compton wasn't.

The difference is, I try and look at things logically to come to a conclusion. And sometimes, hell, maybe even most times, I may not be right. But at least I try to come at it by examining all sides.

You simply turn up your nose and say "Well in my opinion", based on your own personal criteria separate from whatever else happened.

But at any rate, I'm not gonna derail this thread anymore trying to get you to think outside of the box you've put yourself in, so I'll bow out and let you feel like you've won.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Can't believe we acquired a once-in-a-lifetime QB--he sustained major injuries his first year--and we're still playing russian roulette with our OL.

[LD0506]

<sigh> What were they supposed to do to "fix" the O line this year? They simply didn't have the $$ to outbid anyone in FA, missing the 1st round pick in the draft meant they had to maximize scarce resources, should they have traded their entire draft for one high pick for a RT? This place would have melted down like a Japanese reactor.

I see us in the same position now as we were a couple years back, putting the best face possible on starting Grossman/Beck because there were no alternatives. I give the FO credit for addressing the greatest weakness, ie. the secondary, while still adding some pieces elsewhere. I expect some hardcore FA dealing next year, especially linemen, when the money allows.

I keep hearing people gripe about the line, honestly, I get it, but were they supposed to do? I have yet to hear one genuine answer to this, a real solution, not just patching a patch.

[Riggo'sRangers]

Can't believe we acquired a once-in-a-lifetime QB--he sustained major injuries his first year--and we're still playing russian roulette with our OL.

I understand your point, but they are really trying. Did you see the number of bodies they are throwing at the position? We are limited by the "penalty" but like the effort. The wildcard here is Xavier Nixon. He was the undrafted person we wanted before the draft even ended. Most do not realize how important he COULD be to us and the potential this young man possesses. He started at left tackle, in the SEC (Florida), as a true freshman. He was one of the most coveted HS recruits in the nation. The kicker is that his strengths are quick feet and great athleticism. He is IDEALLY suited for the zone blocking scheme. He needs to develop a mean streak (Trent can teach him this), and an NFL body. He could actually be THE steal of 2013. Pray for him fellow skins fans, because we may have a true diamond here. HTTR