If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block

[terpskins10]

While this is true, you cannot underestimate the damage done by losing 18 million in cap. That is 2 elite level players. I know that everyone wants to forget about it and just get it over with. But it's a serious disadvantage this year and next and you can't really hold it against Shanny because it was an attempt to get out from under Albert. We would be minus that money anyways had they not attempted to dump it.

I agree, but even WITH the penalty we had more cap room than a lot of teams AND we have drafted more players in the last couple offseasons than any team in football.

With good talent evaluation, that'd be perfectly fine to put together a competitive team. If we had a FO like the (ugh) Ravens or even the Chiefs, they'd be able to use those resources and put together a very solid roster. While some of the returns on the rookies we've had in the last couple years have been positive, it's still up in the air whether Shanahan and Allen have evaluated talent at a high level.

[wrecker]

incorrect.... 5 years of incredible drafting got them to the superbowl. Along with being in a horrible division and having 6 easy games to win to get you a divisional championship and home field advantage.

The Redskins unfortunately will never have 6 easy games to win. Winning the division will always be a very difficult struggle.

...as I recall a 9-7 team won the NFC East last year and no wild card team came from our division.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 11:47 AM ----------

P Manning went 3-13 his rookie year, just saying.

Manning didn't cost three 1's and a 2....just saying.

[Darkstarr]

True, but it was also Mora's first year as a coach and they were coming off of a 3-13 season. The team had no talent.

We'd like to believe that in the last two years, Shanahan has put together a team talented enough to compete right now with a rookie.

I don't necessarily agree with kleese that we should ax Shanahan even if we are atrocious (given the terrible schedule and rookie QB), but I can see the point he's trying to make.

The Colts had no talent? Wow so HoF'er Marshal Fault is not talent? Strong Potential HoF Marvin Harrison has not talent?

[DogofWar1]

Denver and SF were purely defense and running games. Smith and Tebow never carried their team. They didn't actively lose the game either, but they didn't win it either.

The Bengals are an interesting case, but Dalton was better than most expected, they are something of an exception. I mean, how often does something like their case happen? Once a decade?

I think at this point we can be certain that our coaching is solid, and we won't be seeing a major shakeup unless there's a huge breakdown (someone already mentioned the Morris debacle in TB). I guarantee that if we go 6-10, there WILL be mitigating circumstances.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

If we go 6-10 and Shanny is put on the chopping block, I will turn into a Panthers fan. Shanny will be here for at least his five years. Period.

After all we've been through, we are officially on the cusp of having a really good team. To go in another direction would be a terrible move, in my opinion. Of course, it wouldn't shock me that some people would want Shanny gone. Fans are loyal. Fans are impatient. Sometimes, fans are really stupid.

[kleese]

Absolutely not, that would be a cerrato/old snyder move. This is the most competent regime we have had in along time, and I believe that they are doing a good job.

If they fail to have a winning season the next two years would you still say that? And that is the question here. Not criticizing anything they've done; just projecting what the reaction should be if the on-field struggles continue.

[Darkstarr]

I agree, but even WITH the penalty we had more cap room than a lot of teams AND we have drafted more players in the last couple offseasons than any team in football.

With good talent evaluation, that'd be perfectly fine to put together a competitive team. If we had a FO like the (ugh) Ravens or even the Chiefs, they'd be able to use those resources and put together a very solid roster. While some of the returns on the rookies we've had in the last couple years have been positive, it's still up in the air whether Shanahan and Allen have evaluated talent at a high level.

That great Chiefs talent evaluator that gave up a high pick for Cassel? Shanny has had 3 1st rd picks, I LOVE all 3 so far. his 2nd rd pick in Jenkins I loved but got hurt. P. Rielly was a great 4th rd pick. Come on the last 3 yrs of drafting has been better then the last decade of picks.

[kleese]

If we go 6-10 and Shanny is put on the chopping block, I will turn into a Panthers fan. Shanny will be here for at least his five years. Period.

After all we've been through, we are officially on the cusp of having a really good team. To go in another direction would be a terrible move, in my opinion. Of course, it wouldn't shock me that some people would want Shanny gone. Fans are loyal. Fans are impatient. Sometimes, fans are really stupid.

Again, of we go 5-11 this year and 6-10 next year, is that still "on the cusp?"

[terpskins10]

The Colts had no talent? Wow so HoF'er Marshal Fault is not talent? Strong Potential HoF Marvin Harrison has not talent?

Let me rephrase.

Even the worst teams in the NFL usually have one or two elite players. Look at the 0-16 Lions of a few years ago as an example.

That being said, even with a star RB and number 1 receiver, that Colts team did not have great talent to overcome the rookie mistakes Peyton Manning made and they were already an awful team to begin with in the midst of a regime change. Our staff has been here for a few years now and should have at least put in enough talent to be competitive.

Let me say this: I DO NOT expect us to be among the worst teams in football. I think we get to 6 or 7 wins, and maybe 8 or 9 with some luck. I'm just saying I understand where kleese is coming from.

[Mad Mike]

Yes please, let's jump back on the coaching carousel again. Because we were much better off with no sense of direction, and no stability. Maybe we can even re-hire Jim Zorn!

Sorry kleese but NO. Barring a nightmare year where Shanahan losses the locker room and everything goes completely to hell, he gets a pass this year. It would be foolish to jump ship so soon and force RG3 to learn another system in his second year. And that's me wording it carefully out of respect for you.

[terpskins10]

That great Chiefs talent evaluator that gave up a high pick for Cassel? Shanny has had 3 1st rd picks, I LOVE all 3 so far. his 2nd rd pick in Jenkins I loved but got hurt. P. Rielly was a great 4th rd pick. Come on the last 3 yrs of drafting has been better then the last decade of picks.

I don't disagree with you on how well our drafting has been compared to what we've had.

However, on the Chiefs point, Cassel was actually going to be traded for more (and there were higher offers), but Belichick cut him a deal.

Look at the Chiefs roster. They have a LOT of talent. I didn't agree with the Cassel move, but don't let one questionable move fool you. If not for injuries, I think that team could have won their division last year even WITH Cassel. Pioli has done a good job there.

[wrecker]

This is totally hypothetical and I want RG3 to succeed more than anything.....and I really think he will.

This is just a point to ponder.

What if Kirk Cousins could be the next Andy Dalton and we could put three 1's and a 2 around him?

[terpskins10]

This is totally hypothetical and I want RG3 to succeed more than anything.....and I really think he will.

This is just a point to ponder.

What if Kirk Cousins could be the next Andy Dalton and we could put three 1's and a 2 around him?

We'd be quite in good shape. However, that's a big IF and I also believe that if Griffin realizes his potential, we'd still be a better team with Griffin minus those picks than we would be with an Andy Dalton type with the picks.

[ncr2h]

I am glad we are having this conversation already. To put it in perspective, Shanahan is behind Jim Zorn in terms of Redskins success. In fact, before Samuels' injury in 08, the 2008 Redskins under Jim Zorn would have wiped the floor with any of Shanahan-coached team since 2007.

Shanahan is already suspect to me. 7-9 buys him another year, in my opinion, because it's at least an improvement. 6-10 does not, regardless of the circumstances. It's year 3. I'll be generous and give him a mulligan for not improving in year 2 due to offensive line injuries and lack of talent at receiver, but you can't tell me with a straight face that Shanahan's decision to put in Beck didn't cost us games. In year 3 there are no more excuses, even though he traded several #1 picks in order to get one.

[Darkstarr]

I am glad we are having this conversation already. To put it in perspective, Shanahan is behind Jim Zorn in terms of Redskins success. In fact, before Samuels' injury in 08, the 2008 Redskins under Jim Zorn would have wiped the floor with any of Shanahan-coached team since 2007.

Shanahan is already suspect to me. 7-9 buys him another year, in my opinion, because it's at least an improvement. 6-10 does not, regardless of the circumstances. It's year 3. I'll be generous and give him a mulligan for not improving in year 2 due to offensive line injuries and lack of talent at receiver, but you can't tell me with a straight face that Shanahan's decision to put in Beck didn't cost us games. In year 3 there are no more excuses, even though he traded several #1 picks in order to get one.

So u are telling me u would rather have had the skins 2008 roster then shanny's 2008 roster? So u take a bum like cambell over a young probowl cutler? An old lt tackle in Samuel over a 1st yr lft tackle who gave up 1/2 a sack in over 600 drop backs by Cutler? Moss over a young Marshel? Skins were old and done, Shanny had a great young offense rdy to roll. Plz give me the 2008 Bronco's over the skins roster any day.

[Skinsinparadise]

Spurrier's fun and gun to Gibbs power running game to Zorn's pure WCO to Shanny's zone blocking/bootleg -- am sure it will do the franchise good to do another 180

When you get some of the ex-players talking about the failures and inconsistency of this organization under Danny my point above is referenced a lot. Overhauling the roster with players that fit the new scheme and learning new schemes versus the consistency of some of the top organizations is a hallmark of the team's dysfunction.

[wrecker]

We'd be quite in good shape. However, that's a big IF and I also believe that if Griffin realizes his potential, we'd still be a better team with Griffin minus those picks than we would be with an Andy Dalton type with the picks.

Yes, I agree, but they are both ifs. However, for three 1's and a 2, I am sure Shanahan is praying the "if" better not happen with RG3.

McNabb trade

Hiring a 4-3 DC and switching to a 3-4 with decent 4-3 personnel

Haynesworth conditioning test

Larry Johnson

Joey Galloway

Roydell Williams

Staking reputation on John Beck

OJ Atogwe

Front loading contracts (36 million cap hit)

Banking on Jammal Brown to be the starting right tackle

Only if........

[Hiro]

I think the OP overestimates where this roster is.

We have a lot of young, budding talent at a lot of position areas, but to say that this is the type of roster that was a franchise QB away from being a perennial contender is completely wrong. As we saw in the Bears game, this is a team that still needs seasoning. This will only come with more talent added in the next couple of drafts/free agency periods and game experience. Pulling the plug on Shanahan now would undo a ton of the work, and completely scrub away any ounce of stability we have developed. Stability, I remind you, being something this franchise has not had in YEARS.

You know who that last coach we had who was here longer than four seasons? Norv Turner.

[Jericho]

This is totally hypothetical and I want RG3 to succeed more than anything.....and I really think he will.

This is just a point to ponder.

What if Kirk Cousins could be the next Andy Dalton and we could put three 1's and a 2 around him?

Before trying to find the "next" Andy Dalton, why not wait and see if Dalton is actually good? Dalton's QB rating (admittedly not the absolute best way to evaluate a QB, but not horrible either) was stuck in between Carson Palmer and Tavaris Jackson last season (20th overall). And behind Kevin Kolb too. I don't see people talking about the Redskins finding the next Tavaris Jackson or Kevin Kolb to build around. The allure of Dalton is that he did it as a rookie and would presumably improve. Of course, people once thought Vince Young was the bee's knees too (2006 Offensive Rookie of the Year). And we know how that turned out.

[kleese]

I think the OP overestimates where this roster is.

We have a lot of young, budding talent at a lot of position areas, but to say that this is the type of roster that was a franchise QB away from being a perennial contender is completely wrong. As we saw in the Bears game, this is a team that still needs seasoning. This will only come with more talent added in the next couple of drafts/free agency periods and game experience. Pulling the plug on Shanahan now would undo a ton of the work, and completely scrub away any ounce of stability we have developed. Stability, I remind you, being something this franchise has not had in YEARS.

You know who that last coach we had who was here longer than four seasons? Norv Turner.

In the third year of a rebuilding plan you should have a roster you can coach to 7 or 8 wins

[Darkstarr]

Wrecker every coach/gm makes that many mistakes in 3 seasons. U can go thru any team and use hindsight to say this was bad and that was bad. Even the Pats. How did the Chad Johnson experiment work out or the Haynesworth trade work out? The idea is to make more bad moves then good moves. I would suggest Shanny has made alot more good moves then bad. For every O. J. u can say Pierre Garcon. U have to take chances and shots some work some do not. But atm I would say This team is younger, faster, deeper and drama free. I cannot think of a skins team in the last 6-8 years I would say that about. Give it the 5 years then look at the results if bad move on if good so be it. Just give it time.

[TaylorPickSix]

Rookie QB, patchwork offensive line, and a pretty difficult schedule.

6-10 is very realistic. If you think firing Shanahan will help us improve that faster, you're in the wrong.

Also, we're not in Year 3 of a rebuild. We're more likely in Year 2. Shanahan tried to make the playoffs with the veteran roster he inheritted, hence the McNabb move. It failed, and him and George Allen blew the team up.

[ncr2h]

So u are telling me u would rather have had the skins 2008 roster then shanny's 2008 roster? So u take a bum like cambell over a young probowl cutler? An old lt tackle in Samuel over a 1st yr lft tackle who gave up 1/2 a sack in over 600 drop backs by Cutler? Moss over a young Marshel? Skins were old and done, Shanny had a great young offense rdy to roll. Plz give me the 2008 Bronco's over the skins roster any day.

Zorn's team was better until the Samuels injury. That's a fact. That's why we were 6-2 in the best division in football and the Broncos were 4-4 in the worst. Instead of being mad about it, think rationally about what that means for Shanahan. He has not yet surpassed Jim Zorn in terms of winning games as a Redskins coach. Yes, the roster seems better than Zorn's rosters. But playing sports is about winning games, not measuring roster talent. If Shanahan doesn't at least hit 7-9 this season there are serious questions about whether he still knows how to win.

[2v2nv]

I would normally be freaking out on Shanahan and Bruce if they didn't do so well rebuilding so quickly. The defense looks like a top tier defense with one huge hole, CB. Its depressing to see other teams know what our weakness is and exploit it so well. I heard a coach say that you know your team is doing well when the defense knows whats coming at them and can't stop it anyways. I felt the Bears did this against us. Brandon Marshall was obviously a go to guy and our corners could not do anything about it.

I would also like to Fletcher really helped them out and he will contribute when he comes back. However, they seemed so bad last game that I was just sick with them. DHall was really starting to annoy me. For him to be in the system for so long, some of the stuff he gives up is just unacceptable.

I'll say that even though there are huge holes needed to be filled, there are a lot less holes than there were 3 years ago. If we go 6-10, I'll be okay with that. However, 3 years down the road, we should have a playoff caliber team.

[SWFLSkins]

You obviously didn't read my other thread where I was critical of people reading too much into the Chicago game. My opinions her have nothing to do with anything that happened last night.

kleese love you're threads, but the timing of this one and the fact that you don't mention ^ in the OP, could have anyone easily assuming you were reacting to the Chicago game, which was not as bad as many are suggesting. Chicago offered up a good caliber team to face for a disorganized OL and a rookie QB. To address the thread subject: Snyder has knee jerked up into the mess the team is currently in and appears to have learned that lesson. If he fires Shanahan for any record this season it would continue a pattern that is not leading anywhere but down. I would say Shanahan should stay at least two more years before any coaching move is considered.