If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block

[wrecker]

Wrecker every coach/gm makes that many mistakes in 3 seasons. U can go thru any team and use hindsight to say this was bad and that was bad. Even the Pats. How did the Chad Johnson experiment work out or the Haynesworth trade work out? The idea is to make more bad moves then good moves. I would suggest Shanny has made alot more good moves then bad. For every O. J. u can say Pierre Garcon. U have to take chances and shots some work some do not. But atm I would say This team is younger, faster, deeper and drama free. I cannot think of a skins team in the last 6-8 years I would say that about. Give it the 5 years then look at the results if bad move on if good so be it. Just give it time.

I understand, but the staking his reputation on John Beck was pretty hard to swallow and still has me scratching my head.

Also giving McNabb a contract extension and then benching him for Rex Grossman runs a close second.

I could see switching to a 3-4 in year two after he evaluated the current players and had one draft and FA to plug at least a couple holes.

It just seems that a lot of decisions are more knee jerk and big dreams vice well planned and thought through.

[Darkstarr]

Zorn's team was better until the Samuels injury. That's a fact. That's why we were 6-2 in the best division in football and the Broncos were 4-4 in the worst. Instead of being mad about it, think rationally about what that means for Shanahan. He has not yet surpassed Jim Zorn in terms of winning games as a Redskins coach. Yes, the roster seems better than Zorn's rosters. But playing sports is about winning games, not measuring roster talent. If Shanahan doesn't at least hit 7-9 this season there are serious questions about whether he still knows how to win.

We will agree to strongly disagree. Shanny's offensive team was super young. pro bowl left tackle, qb and wr less then 26 yrs old. He built a team for the long term. As a skins fan i can understand that is something we do not understand. Again I point out the skins had no future on that team? They toped out at what they were. Who is even in the league playing meaning full snaps still from those teams? While with the Denver team u can see those players all over the NFL making huge impacts. the cutler's, marshall's, sheftler's, Dumervill's, Williams, Kuper's, Clady's.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 01:13 PM ----------

I understand, but the staking his reputation on John Beck was pretty hard to swallow and still has me scratching my head.

Also giving McNabb a contract extension and then benching him for Rex Grossman runs a close second.

I could see switching to a 3-4 in year two after he evaluated the current players and had one draft and FA to plug at least a couple holes.

It just seems that a lot of decisions are more knee jerk and big dreams vice well planned and thought through.

The whole reputation thing is way over blown. What should he have said? Gee both our qb's suck? That was your typical i am supporting what i have statement. I look at it as the same as everyone says about "their" current qb situation. I disagee i think alot has been thought out.

1. for example draft left tackle to protect future franchise qb.

2. draft rush lb to hassle other teams qb.

3. draft future franchise qb.

All 1st rd pick all at the most important positions.

[darrelgreenie]

-Kleese

If you are the GM and the team goes less then 6-10 what do you do?

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Again, of we go 5-11 this year and 6-10 next year, is that still "on the cusp?"

Now we're stretching it. I was talking about this year. If you wanna add next year's 6-10 prediction, I will still stand firm and say that shanny gets his five years.

I truly hope that we compete for a wildcard THIS year, so this nonsense will be put to rest.

[SkinFaninOKC]

I disagree with firing Shanahan if we go 6-10 or 4-12. The defense has better personnel and the same coach running the same system, many have posted the process to the 3-4 will take time, this is year 3 and I think the defense will be top 10. Hopefully that will keep us in games and give RG III a chance to win some games. Many have posted having the right QB will solve many problems. That remains to be seen as the defensive issues were addressed before the quarterback issue, so the offense is 2 years behind. This coaching staff gets no less than 3 years to improve the team. If Shanahan is still coaching the team to 7-9 or 6-10 after 2014 then a change should be made.

[Morneblade]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one Klesse which is unusual. But there are a couple of reasons for it.

1. Complete roster overhaul: Nothing to do with changing schemes, just going from the oldest team in the NFL to one of the younger ones. With a complete lack of talent. Revamping a team that Vinnie had run for years takes time.

2. System/Scheme changes: Going from a 4/3 to a 3/4 Defense and gong from a power running game to a zone blocking scheme requires different types of players on both sides, regardless of talent.

3. Lack of depth: We've been a top heavy team with little to no depth. That had to be addressed as well, and I think it's safe to say our depth in most areas has improved.

4. $36 Millions dollars worth of BS: this has hurt us in being able to bring good FA's in positions of need (OL/DB) and will bite us next year as well. I'd like to get past that before making a decision.

5. There has been REAL progress made already. I like what we're doing and the direction we are moving in. OL is still an issue, but I think next year we might be able to have that mostly taken care of. DL looks strong AND deep. WR looks strong and deep. QB is set, with RGIII and Cousins. LB's are strong and deep. Safety looks in good shape, but we still have issues at CB. RB could be improved on as well. Overall though, I like our depth and our direction. I'm willing to give Shanahan 5 years. The mentality is different.

Edit: Before the season, I predicted 6-10. So I dont expect huge strides to show up in the win/loss column

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I would also like to add that great coaches are like franchise QBs. They don't grow on trees. I am happy with Shanny, as I feel he is one of the best coaches of my generation. As a playcaller, I would put him in the same league as Bill Walsh and our beloved Joe Gibbs. Yes...I think he's that good.

So if we do get rid of him, we have to think about who will replace him. I will take five years of Shanny, no matter what, over the concept of finding a replacement who has the pedigree that he does. Period.

[wrecker]

We will agree to strongly disagree. Shanny's offensive team was super young. pro bowl left tackle, qb and wr less then 26 yrs old. He built a team for the long term. As a skins fan i can understand that is something we do not understand. Again I point out the skins had no future on that team? They toped out at what they were. Who is even in the league playing meaning full snaps still from those teams? While with the Denver team u can see those players all over the NFL making huge impacts. the cutler's, marshall's, sheftler's, Dumervill's, Williams, Kuper's, Clady's.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 01:13 PM ----------

The whole reputation thing is way over blown. What should he have said? Gee both our qb's suck? That was your typical i am supporting what i have statement. I look at it as the same as everyone says about "their" current qb situation. I disagee i think alot has been thought out.

1. for example draft left tackle to protect future franchise qb.

2. draft rush lb to hassle other teams qb.

3. draft future franchise qb.

All 1st rd pick all at the most important positions.

It's one thing to support your players......

I have confidence that if John Beck works hard he can be effective in our offense....vice..... I thought he was the best QB in that draft class and I stake my reputation on him.

Look, I am by no means throwing in the towel on Shanahan. I actually like the guy and want him to succeed.

I would love to finally have stability with a coaching staff.

I just think it is time to stop the freaking evaluation process and start putting a decent product on the field.

It seems Shanahan always talks like he has a special plan and you will soon see his genius shine through.

I bought into it the first 2 years.

Well, it's year three and I am still waiting.

[B&G]

I couldn't disagree more with the premise of the original post.

Before even thinking about moving to a new regime, lets give Coach the five years he thought it would take from the very beginning to turn around years of dysfunction. If we don't see significant improvement by that time, then perhaps it would be appropriate to discuss the issue.

Is there doubt in anyone's mind that we have already seen improvement in this team? Our rebuilding effort was hurt this year by Capgate but we will recover from that and continue the systematic reconstruction of the Washington Redskins. Until that process is complete, it is lunacy to consider a change. That's what we used to do and it contributed significantly to 20 years of mediocrity or worse.

Patience grasshoppers, lets see how this pans out. I am optimistic.

[darrelgreenie]

I would also like to add that great coaches are like franchise QBs. They don't grow on trees. I am happy with Shanny, as I feel he is one of the best coaches of my generation. As a playcaller, I would put him in the same league as Bill Walsh and our beloved Joe Gibbs. Yes...I think he's that good.

Just a simple point of fact, Mike Shanahan is not the playcaller for this team.

[scruffylookin]

I would agree that Shanahan, Allen, everyone should be on thin ice if the team has yet another 10 loss season. If Norv Turner can inherit a 4-12 over the hill and over the salary cap team and have it win 9 games in year 3, no reason Shanahan can't do it and if he can't he should be in trouble.

There is a caveat though and that is what he told Danny when discussing the trade for Griffin III. If he told Danny words to the effect, "If you approve us moving forward with this trade you must allow for another "development" season." and Danny agreed, then everything is moot. Shanahan returns no questions asked.

Now if it were me and Shanahan says this I'm asking, "So Mike is what you're telling me the team you have spent 3 seasons in building not capable of winning 7 games right now?"

But I do admit that when anyone says "So you want to start over yet again?" I do cringe. Doing what we've been doing since 2000 just seems crazy. Fire Shanahan and then what? What nightmare would Danny bring forth?

[planter]

Drafting RG3 has probably given the Shanahan(s) an "extra" year. You a know..the 'ol NFL adage " let us develop the qb".... Unless we go 4-12. !! The point of your thread..

[wrecker]

Fire Shanahan and then what? What nightmare would Danny bring forth?

I'll admit, that is extremely scary when you put it like that.

[Zazzaro703]

Gotta agree this was a bad thread idea for mulitple reasons. It could have easily been fit into your other thread and as soon as we traded away 1st round picks for the next 2 years Shanny bought himself time for the rest of his contract. Maybe (and that's a huge MAYBE) if we only won 2-4 games the next two years we would have to consider a change but that's far away and not really worth the dicussion right now after 2 preseason games.

[Hiro]

In the third year of a rebuilding plan you should have a roster you can coach to 7 or 8 wins

On this front I do agree. I'm somewhat compelled to give Shanahan time because to this point, I haven't seen regression (despite the one drop in our record from 2010 to 2011).

I will agree with you that I want/expect to see improvement and growth. As long as I continue to see that and see a light at the end of where Shanahan's plan is leading, then I'm all for keeping him, even if it means we have another 6-10 season. The margin of victory can be very little in the NFL, with lots of small breaks and freak things being the difference between 7-9/8-8 (respectable) and 6-10 or even 5-11.

[kleese]

-Kleese

If you are the GM and the team goes less then 6-10 what do you do?

I'd do what I said originally (I never once said he should be fired)... I'd support him publicly and I'd get really, really nervous that it isn't going to work out and I'd probably have it in the back of my mind that ANOTHER 6-10 or worse year might mean we need to make a change before 2014.

[darrelgreenie]

I'd do what I said originally (I never once said he should be fired)... I'd support him publicly and I'd get really, really nervous that it isn't going to work out and I'd probably have it in the back of my mind that ANOTHER 6-10 or worse year might mean we need to make a change before 2014.

Well, then I agree.

[kleese]

I couldn't disagree more with the premise of the original post.

Before even thinking about moving to a new regime, lets give Coach the five years he thought it would take from the very beginning to turn around years of dysfunction. If we don't see significant improvement by that time, then perhaps it would be appropriate to discuss the issue.

Is there doubt in anyone's mind that we have already seen improvement in this team? Our rebuilding effort was hurt this year by Capgate but we will recover from that and continue the systematic reconstruction of the Washington Redskins. Until that process is complete, it is lunacy to consider a change. That's what we used to do and it contributed significantly to 20 years of mediocrity or worse.

Patience grasshoppers, lets see how this pans out. I am optimistic.

Again, I understand "five year plan" diffrently than most. I always figured that meant tha the fifth year theyd be REALLY good... A true contender. I didn't think it meant that by year five they would finally get to .500 or a little better.

[kleese]

I will use another current team to illustrate my point.... The Bills. When Gailey took over in 2010 (same as Shanny) the Bills were about in equal shape to us--- awful roster, bad mojo from the top... And evens worse recent history... No playoffs since 1999.

They are now entering year three and I think it's realistic for Bills fans to expect 8-8 or thereabouts.

If I told you right now that the Bills would be 5-11 this year and 7-9 in 2013, would you think that Gailey is doing a good job?

[pjfootballer]

Again, I understand "five year plan" diffrently than most. I always figured that meant tha the fifth year theyd be REALLY good... A true contender. I didn't think it meant that by year five they would finally get to .500 or a little better.

Let's play out year THREE before we start throwing stones. We may be there in year 5, we may not. No one can predict the future. I mean, we've only completed 2 years.

[Reic]

I will use another current team to illustrate my point.... The Bills. When Gailey took over in 2010 (same as Shanny) the Bills were about in equal shape to us--- awful roster, bad mojo from the top... And evens worse recent history... No playoffs since 1999.

They are now entering year three and I think it's realistic for Bills fans to expect 8-8 or thereabouts.

If I told you right now that the Bills would be 5-11 this year and 7-9 in 2013, would you think that Gailey is doing a good job?

I don't think the Bills will be 8-8, and if they do its because the back end of their schedule is weak as anything

[kleese]

Let's play out year THREE before we start throwing stones. We may be there in year 5, we may not. No one can predict the future. I mean, we've only completed 2 years.

I agree pj, but that's sort of the point of a message board, no?

We discuss hypotheticals, what if's, etc...

I am actually the positive one in this thread. I beleive in this roster more than most. I see a 7 win team and maybe a 9 win team if things just go amazingly/we get lucky. I think our schedule is overblown--- NFC East is overrated as always.

I am just saying this... If it takes Shanny five years to get to a winning record, it will be about as long of a rebuild as we've ever seen... And it is in complete contrast to other rebuilding teams in similar situations mentioned in this thread. I'm still smiling about how some have spun the 0-16 Lions as somehow being a really good landing spot for a new coach

[Mursilis]

Jim Schwartz took over the only team ever to go 0-16, and by Year 3, had them at 10 wins and a playoff appearance. If the best Shanahan can do after 3 seasons is add 2 wins (assuming 6-10) to the 4-12 team he inherited, then I'm really going to wonder if he's lost his touch. I won't say he should be fired, but 2013 would really be a "playoffs or gone" year. At some point, the 'rebuild' excuse has expired.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 02:33 PM ----------

For every O. J. u can say Pierre Garcon.

Garcon hasn't actually played in a real game yet as a Redskin. I don't know how you can claim that was a successful signing at this point. Sure, I think he'll be good here, but I'm not going to say that's been proven at this point.

[Darkstarr]

Jim Schwartz took over the only team ever to go 0-16, and by Year 3, had them at 10 wins and a playoff appearance. If the best Shanahan can do after 3 seasons is add 2 wins (assuming 6-10) to the 4-12 team he inherited, then I'm really going to wonder if he's lost his touch. I won't say he should be fired, but 2013 would really be a "playoffs or gone" year. At some point, the 'rebuild' excuse has expired.

And if stafford and Megatron were not on that team how many wins do they have? Having a real qb and the best wr in the game sure can add up wins for any coach in a hurry something the Redskins did not have yet under Shanny. Lets just see how he does with his Franchise qb.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 02:34 PM ----------

Jim Schwartz took over the only team ever to go 0-16, and by Year 3, had them at 10 wins and a playoff appearance. If the best Shanahan can do after 3 seasons is add 2 wins (assuming 6-10) to the 4-12 team he inherited, then I'm really going to wonder if he's lost his touch. I won't say he should be fired, but 2013 would really be a "playoffs or gone" year. At some point, the 'rebuild' excuse has expired.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 02:33 PM ----------

Garcon hasn't actually played in a real game yet as a Redskin. I don't know how you can claim that was a successful signing at this point. Sure, I think he'll be good here, but I'm not going to say that's been proven at this point.

OK fair enough then the Colfield, Bowen and Adam C. trades and fa signings.

[Coach Janky Spanky]

NO!

Shanahan inherited an absolute mess. He made a couple mistakes (McNabb, Jammal Brown), but we have rebuilt from scratch and have a possibly elite rookie QB who will need a couple years to develop. Why start from scratch again next year? I don't care if we go 5-11, 4-12....you gotta give it patience!! Such quick turnaround, like firing a coach and having to CHANGE SYSTEMS all over again after 3 years is what got us INTO THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!