If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block

[skinzwiz]

I think if this season goes horribly, Shanahan and Son should be put on a short leash. Afterwards they have 1-2 seasons to make the playoffs. If not, they do need to be fired unless you can clearly see the team progressing and on the brink of playoff/championship contention.

[Mursilis]

And if stafford and Megatron were not on that team how many wins do they have? Having a real qb and the best wr in the game sure can add up wins for any coach in a hurry something the Redskins did not have yet under Shanny. Lets just see how he does with his Franchise qb.

---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 02:34 PM ----------

OK fair enough then the Colfield, Bowen and Adam C. trades and fa signings.

First, Stafford was not on the team Schwartz inherited - Schwartz drafted him. And it's not like the 2009 team Shanahan inherited lacked any talent. Cooley, Moss, Orakpo, Davis, Portis, Rogers, Hall, and Fletcher were all on the 2009 roster when Shanahan rolled into town. The 2009 team wasn't lacking in talent, at least compared to any other mediocre NFL team - it suffered more from poor coaching by Zorn, who was way over his head. Zorn at least had enough talent to win 4 games.

Second, those guys you named have been solid, but Shanahan has also wiffed on some players, including McNabb and J. Brown, so his overall player record is mixed. It's really going to come down to whether he was right on Griffin or not.

[Rodriggo]

I'm not a fan of Shanahan but if I was, it would not be for any other reason that he's the coach they have.

Truth is, he's done nothing but lose and like it or not this team doesn't have proven pieces in place to win anytime soon, not this year or the next.

This team has no proven premier talent at any skill positions. Their best defender can be held 99% of the time without reproach and who's their best offensive player? RG3? A rookie QB? Moss? A #3 WR anywhere else? Honestly, who can you rely on, either side of the ball, to "make something happen?" Other than Kerrigan or maybe, maybe Hall (and his big bag of nonsense), no one.

If Shanahan lasts five years it'll be b/c this organization is so beaten down that it would rather go through a fruitless, inept five year run than another regime change if only for the appearance of consistency...."hey look, we're the Steelers now."

In hindsight he should have just started Grossman year one....gone 1-15 and drafted Cam Newton with the #1 pick last year.

I'll take RG3 in year three as a consolation prize but still he's a rookie this year which means it's an automatic wash even if he crushes it.

Are they markedly better in year four or contending for the playoffs? Unless A LOT of players can stay healthy and either make the "jump" (RG3, Williams, Helu, Davis, Garcon, Hankerson, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Riley) or can maintain the level expected through an entire season (Orakpo, Hall, Moss, Cooley, Hightower, Wilson) then the answer is no.

They're trying to build a "culture of winning" without the actual winning and in a timeframe that is archaic and completely meaningless for the current league when "cultures" overturn every February and can take as little as 1 losing season to mature into "playoff caliber."

Way I see it RG3 will make the losing more bearable but they will lose and Shanahan will leave with nothing. I hope the next guy is competent and can do something with the built up talent of three more "high pick" drafts.

[kleese]

I'm not a fan of Shanahan but if I was, it would not be for any other reason that he's the coach they have.

Truth is, he's done nothing but lose and like it or not this team doesn't have proven pieces in place to win anytime soon, not this year or the next.

This team has no proven premier talent at any skill positions. Their best defender can be held 99% of the time without reproach and who's their best offensive player? RG3? A rookie QB? Moss? A #3 WR anywhere else? Honestly, who can you rely on, either side of the ball, to "make something happen?" Other than Kerrigan or maybe, maybe Hall (and his big bag of nonsense), no one.

If Shanahan lasts five years it'll be b/c this organization is so beaten down that it would rather go through a fruitless, inept five year run than another regime change if only for the appearance of consistency...."hey look, we're the Steelers now."

In hindsight he should have just started Grossman year one....gone 1-15 and drafted Cam Newton with the #1 pick last year.

I'll take RG3 in year three as a consolation prize but still he's a rookie this year which means it's an automatic wash even if he crushes it.

Are they markedly better in year four or contending for the playoffs? Unless A LOT of players can stay healthy and either make the "jump" (RG3, Williams, Helu, Davis, Garcon, Hankerson, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Riley) or can maintain the level expected through an entire season (Orakpo, Hall, Moss, Cooley, Hightower, Wilson) then the answer is no.

They're trying to build a "culture of winning" without the actual winning and in a timeframe that is archaic and completely meaningless for the current league when "cultures" overturn every February and can take as little as 1 losing season to mature into "playoff caliber."

Way I see it RG3 will make the losing more bearable but they will lose and Shanahan will leave with nothing. I hope the next guy is competent and can do something with the built up talent of three more "high pick" drafts.

You are MUCH more pessimistic than I am, but I totally agree with your general point about the culture change in the league. The Redskins are the only team subscribing to the "we are gonna suck for five years while we build" plan if that, is indeed, the plan.

[Darkstarr]

First, Stafford was not on the team Schwartz inherited - Schwartz drafted him. And it's not like the 2009 team Shanahan inherited lacked any talent. Cooley, Moss, Orakpo, Davis, Portis, Rogers, Hall, and Fletcher were all on the 2009 roster when Shanahan rolled into town. The 2009 team wasn't lacking in talent, at least compared to any other mediocre NFL team - it suffered more from poor coaching by Zorn, who was way over his head. Zorn at least had enough talent to win 4 games.

Second, those guys you named have been solid, but Shanahan has also wiffed on some players, including McNabb and J. Brown, so his overall player record is mixed. It's really going to come down to whether he was right on Griffin or not.

Again we just disagree on talent.

Moss not a top 15-20 wr

Cooley not a top 5 te

Orakpo in 2009 not a top 30 lb

Davis again nothing in 2009

Portis a bum who i might add Shanny fleeced the skins to dump on while taking hof'r Bailey off your hands.

Rodgers a good cb but nothing special imo.

Hall? Really that is your talent u point to?

Fletcher very nice mlb. Again I would trade all of that so called talent for Megatron, stafford and suh any day of the week.

[Rodriggo]

You are MUCH more pessimistic than I am, but I totally agree with your general point about the culture change in the league. The Redskins are the only team subscribing to the "we are gonna suck for five years while we build" plan if that, is indeed, the plan.

Yeah, your examples of teams that have rebuilt in fewer seasons was right on. I feel the same way.

For the way people talk about Shanahan I'd expect to be seeing a whole lot more progress but I just don't.....feels much the same way Zorn and Spurrier did.

The best you can say is that they've drafted well but that's about it.

Deep down I just don't trust him to be as competent as a lot of people on here do. I don't trust his vision for the team b/c I don't believe there is one. I don't trust him with RG3.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that if Cousins continues to crush *** against scrubs in the preseason that he earns a quick hook for RG3 and Shanahan uses it with zero tact early in the season....makes up some bogus excuse and throws a wrench into that whole plan us fans are pinning our hopes to. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[TheGloryDays]

Shanahan deserves to go if we are not legitimately excited about the future at the end of this season.

[B&G]

Again, I understand "five year plan" diffrently than most. I always figured that meant tha the fifth year theyd be REALLY good... A true contender. I didn't think it meant that by year five they would finally get to .500 or a little better.

You understand it no differently than I do. If we are not contending for a Division title (Really Good) and an extended playoff run at the end of five years, we probably need to look elsewhere. What I am saying is to give the staff the full five years before even beginning to discuss the subject.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just a simple point of fact, Mike Shanahan is not the playcaller for this team.

Seriously? Did Danny Smith get a promotion?

[RVAbrendan]

Great point about Schwartz turning the Lions around.

If it were up to me, I'd want Shanny here for the next 10 years. I don't care. I want a consistent coach. I don't want to switch up the offense. I don't want RGIII to get Ramsay'ed or Campbell'ed. Give me some damn continuity.

Hell it took Cowher a decade before he won the ring...

[Mursilis]

Again we just disagree on talent.

Moss not a top 15-20 wr

Cooley not a top 5 te

Orakpo in 2009 not a top 30 lb

Davis again nothing in 2009

Portis a bum who i might add Shanny fleeced the skins to dump on while taking hof'r Bailey off your hands.

Rodgers a good cb but nothing special imo.

Hall? Really that is your talent u point to?

Fletcher very nice mlb. Again I would trade all of that so called talent for Megatron, stafford and suh any day of the week.

Look, you can argue talent all you want, but the fact is, Jim Schwartz inherited the only 0-16 team in NFL history (even with Megatron), and 3 years later, had them at 10-6 and in the playoffs. Shanahan inherited a better team than the 2008 Lions, and needs to start showing some actual improvement in the W/L record, if not this year, at least by next year.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Great point about Schwartz turning the Lions around.

If it were up to me, I'd want Shanny here for the next 10 years. I don't care. I want a consistent coach. I don't want to switch up the offense. I don't want RGIII to get Ramsay'ed or Campbell'ed. Give me some damn continuity.

Hell it took Cowher a decade before he won the ring...

This. Let's go for the long haul.

[Mursilis]

Great point about Schwartz turning the Lions around.

If it were up to me, I'd want Shanny here for the next 10 years. I don't care. I want a consistent coach. I don't want to switch up the offense. I don't want RGIII to get Ramsay'ed or Campbell'ed. Give me some damn continuity.

Hell it took Cowher a decade before he won the ring...

Yes, but he averaged 10+ wins his first 5 years, and made the playoffs all those years too. Oh, and the Super Bowl by Year 4.

[kleese]

You understand it no differently than I do. If we are not contending for a Division title (Really Good) and an extended playoff run, we probably need to look elsewhere. What I am saying is to give the staff the full five years before even beginning to discuss the subject.

It stands to reason of we are going to be legit contenders in 2014 that we would probably need to contend for a wild card in 2013... That would seem more plausible if we did some winning this year. I think it's more realistic that we'd gradually build on success then suck, suck, suck, kinda suck, division winners.

[RVAbrendan]

Yes, but he averaged 10+ wins his first 5 years, and made the playoffs all those years too. Oh, and the Super Bowl by Year 4.

I get that...I guess it wasn't the best comparison. I still stand by my post though. I mean, the system that Shanahan is running is a perfectly fine system. Even last year, receivers were getting open, but the ball was not getting to them. I would just hate for the Shannys to be kicked to the curb only to bring in a different offensive mind that requires bigger O-linemen, etc.

No more overhauls for a while pleaaaase!

[KokoMike]

Here are the top 10 things I would like to see Shanahan do in 2012:

Be a much better game manager than we have seen to date.

Eliminate clock mismanagement, especially in close games.

Make the right decisions on challenging referee calls.

Score first in most games.

Make adjustments at halftime that result in outscoring the other teams in the second half most weeks.

Go for the other teams' jugulars at key moments in games.

Be a fourth quarter team.

Be the best coach on the field every week.

Instill confidence in the players, fans and general public that the Redskins are a team to be reckoned with.

Be a team that should be reckoned with early in the season, consistently good in the middle of the season, and a team that kicks butt in December, January and February.

If he does those things, we should extend his contract.

P.S. re: the "kick butt in December, January and February" implies that we must make the playoffs to extend. If we don't make the playoffs and beyond, January and February should result in the elimination of the $18 million cap penalty for 2013 and a statement that ticket prices will not be raised.

[Darkstarr]

Look, you can argue talent all you want, but the fact is, Jim Schwartz inherited the only 0-16 team in NFL history (even with Megatron), and 3 years later, had them at 10-6 and in the playoffs. Shanahan inherited a better team than the 2008 Lions, and needs to start showing some actual improvement in the W/L record, if not this year, at least by next year.

I would argue they contended because of the QB/WR. He got his qb in the first year and by year 3 it paid off. I agree if by year 3 of Griff and we are 4-12 or 7-9 yeah it is time to rethink things. All I am saying is imo alot of coaches can make a real run at the playoffs with Stafford and Megatron.

The best example of that is just this past week. I realize it is only preseason. But the lions had a 95 yrd drive and Megatron had 93 of it. Yes Shanny had better overall talent, but the talent had no future. Again what redskins would you have wanted over stafford or megatron? The skins have no talent/future talent on that lvl.

[skinsmania123]

I think Shanny has in the era of salary caps, franchising, etc. has done what he can to get the best talent available. We are still short at the OL and at DB positions however and I just do not know if we can compensate for the lack of decent ability there. It is not even serviceable. Sometimes when you finally get something you have lacked at a position for many years players retire or is lost in free agency.

But when I look at a team like the NY Giants with a decent QB, with a fairly decent line ( Eli took quite a few sacks last year) and a decent defense, etc I start thinking most teams are capable of this so where are the Skins going wrong? Because the Giants to me are not great, not legendary in any definable manner, but when I look at Tom Coughlin he motivates those guys somehow. He gets the best out of them and he has for years and they win often. No way anyone thought the Giants were going to be in the playoffs the way they started last year, but when I saw them play Miami and come back and win it in the second half I thought, these guys are getting serious and I have seen this before. I think the coaching is important. The ability to get the best out of ALL your players. I know Coughlin has that and I just do not know if Shanny does. I just don't. Coaching is an intangible you can't measure by anything except wins and losses.

[rick7423]

Nope, we need at least a 5 year run of consistency. We were run into the ground, new schemes every year, no vision for the draft. He will make mistakes, all teams do. We are being competently managed now and need to show some patience and allow it to grow. (Mara screwing us hurt bad too)

HOF is ABSOLUTELY correct! We as fans MUST be patient. This is a process, and those that believe in the quick fix will always have the attitude of kleese. I believe in the Shanahan-Allan process and am willing to wait for it to mature. This team is being built slowly and methodically from the ground up.

Personally, I want Shanahan and company to be here not only for the remainder of his contract, but extend it and give him 5 more years!

[Mursilis]

I get that...I guess it wasn't the best comparison. I still stand by my post though. I mean, the system that Shanahan is running is a perfectly fine system. Even last year, receivers were getting open, but the ball was not getting to them. I would just hate for the Shannys to be kicked to the curb only to bring in a different offensive mind that requires bigger O-linemen, etc.

No more overhauls for a while pleaaaase!

If you're right about the Shanny system, then the record won't be 6-10, and this whole discussion is moot. If the record is bad again, then there has to be accountability for Shanahan, and 2013 should be a playoff or else year. Consistency is not a goal, it's a means to the true goal, which is winning. A consistently bad team is still consistent, but also still bad.

[rskin72]

Someone raised a good point several post's ago that also bears consideration within this thread. The topic of who actually WANTED to coach here? All I heard were folks that did NOT want to be here, like Spagnolo, Parcells, Gruden, Cowher......heck, the owner was reportedly seeking to hire Billick or Fassel. We could have rolled the dice with another unproven HC like we tried with Zorn......but to be honest, I was happy with the Shanahan hire. I also think that consistency with a good coaching staff is important.....and am more than ready to give Shanahan time that others here are not as anxious to give. Until we win, there are not going to be a lot of proven coaches ready to accept this job.....

So who would replace Shanahan???

[JSSkinz]

It stands to reason of we are going to be legit contenders in 2014 that we would probably need to contend for a wild card in 2013... That would seem more plausible if we did some winning this year. I think it's more realistic that we'd gradually build on success then suck, suck, suck, kinda suck, division winners.

The last 8 yrs or so it seems like teams get their QB and if they are not contenders within 2 yrs then its not going to happen.

[Darkstarr]

I agree Murs 2013 should look alot better then 2012. I will not say it is a must make the playoffs because u cannot for see injuries. I use Chicago as an example last year, team looked great till Cutler went down. I do not but it on the coach for the lost season but more on the gm for no back up qb or just bad luck and move on. I will say if the team stays healthy in 2013 then yes a playoff run should be in order 8-8 or better should happen.

[Mursilis]

HOF is ABSOLUTELY correct! We as fans MUST be patient. This is a process, and those that believe in the quick fix will always have the attitude of kleese. I believe in the Shanahan-Allan process and am willing to wait for it to mature. This team is being built slowly and methodically from the ground up.

Personally, I want Shanahan and company to be here not only for the remainder of his contract, but extend it and give him 5 more years!

What has Shanahan done to date to earn an extension?!?

People pleading for consistency should consider the Chargers - they stuck with Norv Turner for 5 years (and counting), and all they've done is steadily regressed. Sometimes, being patient can be a bad thing. At some point, a coach is just spinning his wheels, and needs to go.

[Darkstarr]

The last 8 yrs or so it seems like teams get their QB and if they are not contenders within 2 yrs then its not going to happen.

49'rs (A. Smith) and Houston with Schaub do not follow that suit i would argue.