Top 5 athletes who could've been more

[ChampSkinsFan]

-Babe Ruth if he had a better training regimen.

-Michael Jordan if he didn't divert his attention to baseball for that short time.

-Jerry Rice if he had gone to a bigger football program in college, thus being better prepped for the NFL early in his career.

-Wayne Gretsky if he had bulked up some to add power to his game.

-Dale Earnhart if he didn't hit the wall.

-Bobby Fisher if he didn't go bat-**** insane.

~

[Tongue withdrawn from cheek.]

[Hitman21ST]

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Do you have any evidence to support the contention LaRon's training ruined his recovery? Did any of the Redskins trainers comment on it? How about his doctors? This sounds like the typical crap fans come up with to blame athletes for injuries.

I don't need to make assumptions about how bodies work. If you don't give your body time to heal, it's not going to heal. That's not rocket science.

Second, he was fine as a football player when healthy. During the first Shanny year, he was dominant until he tore his Achilles, even after he hurt his wrist early in the year.

And I said as much. He was fine, but he could have been much better nonetheless.

This surgery controversy is something I've never understood. It's such a moot point. Surgery or no, players simply do not come back from this injury.

Really?

http://www.lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury.

And wtf safeties don't have to be fast? Pretty sure all defensive players need to be fast. You can't even get on the field with a bum Achilles. Also Landry was an extremely smart safety.

No, they don't *need* to be fast. Being fast helps, definitely. But players don't *need* to be fast to be effective. Landry was not a smart safety - he never really could disguise his coverage, he bites way too much on double moves, etc. He has four interceptions in 5 years. Ten safeties had four or more interceptions last year. Another ten had three.

Takeo Spikes and Shawne Merriman were ruined when they tore their Achilles. But linebackers don't need to be fast if they play smart right?

Yeah, because London Fletcher is a burner. I think I saw him running step for step with Moss the other day.

No, you don't need to be fast. Lots of things can be done preplay and at the snap of the ball to compensate.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Ali is interesting. He clearly lost his prime years and came back a very different fighter. That first Frazier fight is fascinating because you can see Ali dealing with the fact that he was not as lightning quick as before. By the second Frazier fight, he had developed the style that he used for the rest of his career.

[thebluefood]

-Dale Earnhart if he didn't hit the wall.

~

[Tongue withdrawn from cheek.]

[RabidFan]

Glad to see someone bring up Sayers as his career was cut way too short.

[Going Commando]

I don't need to make assumptions about how bodies work. If you don't give your body time to heal, it's not going to heal. That's not rocket science.

Except your assuming from stories about his weight lifting that's what happened to him. Did any of the training staff or his doctors say he was hampering his recovery with training?

Really?

http://www.lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

Let me rephrase then. Guys never come back from that injury as anything other than reserve-caliber players.

No, they don't *need* to be fast. Being fast helps, definitely. But players don't *need* to be fast to be effective. Landry was not a smart safety - he never really could disguise his coverage, he bites way too much on double moves, etc. He has four interceptions in 5 years. Ten safeties had four or more interceptions last year. Another ten had three.

If you're not fast, you don't make it in the NFL. Also interceptions are not the barometer for intelligence. Talk to any of LaRon's coaches or teammates at every level and I guarantee you they'll tell you he's one of the smartest players on the team. Belichick and Brady respected Landry, and they don't respect dumb players.

Yeah, because London Fletcher is a burner. I think I saw him running step for step with Moss the other day.

No, you don't need to be fast. Lots of things can be done preplay and at the snap of the ball to compensate.

London is extremely fast.

You absolutely have to be fast to play defense in the NFL. Especially if you're a defensive back. If you can't run you can't play. If your Achilles is torn, you can't run.

---------- Post added August-2nd-2012 at 12:51 PM ----------

I find the inclusion of Tyson kind of interesting. I feel like his career path made perfect sense.

Bill Simmons had a theory about Tyson where he used Ron Artest as a comparison. Crazy Tyson/Artest is a brilliant athlete but a danger to himself and everyone around him. Medicated/In Therapy Tyson/Artest is mediocre. They lose the Viking Battlelust that was the source of their power.

[grhqofb5]

Did anyone mention Don Mattingly? Without the back problems, he could have been among the greatest ever.

[Busch1724]

If Ali is thrown in there, what about Tiger Woods?

[Going Commando]

If we're throwing Ali and somebody like Woods or Barry Sanders into the discussion, it's lost it's meaningfulness. By those standards, every athlete that ever lived could have been better. Nobody has a perfect career though. What about all the times things broke just right for these great athletes?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Also, Larry Johnson isn't top 5, but without the back injuries he'd certainly have a force.

That's a great one.

I don't see the point in putting all time greats on this list. They're already top shelf. Everybody has to deal with stuff in their careers.

Agreed.

Couple of things...

Robert Clemente was 38 years old when he died. Not sure how much more he could've been.

Now for some other less obvious ones that haven't been mentioned.

- Dajuan Wagner

- Jonathon Bender

- Shaun Livingston

- Charles Rogers

- Mike Williams

Bender showed a lot of promise before going out to injuries. Wagner is a hard story to read about. I remember when he scored 100 points in a high school game. Was really excited to see him in the NBA. He had a nice rookie year and then...ugh. His story is hard to read about. And Livingston had the worst sports injury I've ever seen in my life. To this day, I can't bring myself to watch video of it. He was getting Magic Johnson comparisons before that. He's been able to make it back but that injury ruined anything special he could've been.

Williams and Rogers, Rogers actually showed a lot of talent and potential before the freak collarbone injuries. And I've always wondered what would've happened with Williams if he hadn't foolishly tried to challenge the NFL's early-entry rules and been forced out of football for a year. I was living in LA when he was at USC and he was just so awesome to watch.

---------- Post added August-2nd-2012 at 02:49 PM ----------

Oh and how about "Sweat Pea" Pernell Whitaker? He had a great career and to this day is my favorite boxer to watch ever, but what if he hadn't had that coke problem? What could he have really accomplished?

[pjfootballer]

If we're throwing Ali and somebody like Woods or Barry Sanders into the discussion, it's lost it's meaningfulness. By those standards, every athlete that ever lived could have been better. Nobody has a perfect career though. What about all the times things broke just right for these great athletes?

I agree. I said this earlier in the thread (around page 3) but I think it fell on deaf ears.

[Going Commando]

- Dajuan Wagner

- Jonathon Bender

- Shaun Livingston

- Charles Rogers

- Mike Williams

Good list. I remember when Livingston was pretty special. The Clippers man.

Also, I didn't know what happened to Dajuan Wagner. I remember him though.

Charles Rogers is another good one. He came up a lot in the NFL draft thread the year before this past one during the discussion of AJ Green. Identical talent. Skinny. We wondered if his slight build wasn't the root of his problems. Skinnier build equaled injuries which exacerbated his problems with substance abuse as he turned to drugs and alcohol to self medicate for his pain. Man he was good in college though.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Also, I didn't know what happened to Dajuan Wagner. I remember him though.

http://www.nj.com/hssports/blog/boysbasketball/index.ssf/2011/03/once_new_jerseys_brightest_basketball_star_dajuan_wagner_now_prefers_obscurity.html

The aches and pains in his stomach started at Memphis — a dull throbbing that kept him awake. Wagner thought it was just something he ate, but eventually discovered it was far worse.

Wagner was selected by Cleveland in the 2002 NBA Draft, but from the start he was rarely healthy. He missed his first 14 games with a bladder infection, and later in his rookie season he tore cartilage in his right knee.

The next two years were a series of setbacks: dehydration, an inflamed liver and pancreas, a second right knee surgery, a sprained ankle. In three injury-riddled seasons with the Cavs, Wagner played in 102 of 246 games.

Cleveland declined to pick up his option and released Wagner after the 2004-2005 season.

“You just sit back sometimes and you’re like, he has to be one of the most unlucky kids in the world when it comes to injuries,” Barclay said. “It never was a question of his athletic abilities. It was just a bunch of injuries.”

After the Cavs parted ways, Wagner learned he had colitis, an inflammation of the colon or large intestine. He had major surgery in October 2005 to remove his colon and replace it with a pouch made from part of his small intestine.

“Just like that, everything stopped,” Wagner said. “I played basketball my whole life and then for two or three years I couldn’t do nothing.”

Wagner made a remarkable recovery from the surgery and attracted interest from NBA teams in the summer of 2006. Golden State signed him to a two-year contract worth $1.6 million.

After a strong preseason, Wagner started to think his body couldn’t keep pace with the NBA rigors. He appeared in only one game and was released in November 2006; his contract was bought out for an undisclosed sum.

He spent four months playing in Poland, signing another big contract, but he injured his hip and reinjured his knee.

After the season, his career in tatters, Wagner returned to Camden.

“The bitter moment is the fact we had to see it come to a close,” Barclay said. “The sky was the limit for him. Who knows what he could have accomplished?”

More at the link. And another good piece on him:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/138243334.html

[Stadium-Armory]

Dexter Manley.

He was still averaging 9 sacks a year later in his career and if he hadn't failed his 4th drug test, might easily have had another 30 sacks on his resume.

[DCSaints_fan]

Ricky Williams. If he had stayed off the weed, stayed healthy and maybe been on a better team than Miami, I think he could be in the same discussion as Emmit Smith and Walter Payton. It was rare to find a back with his combination of strength and elusiveness.

[Busch1724]

I agree. I said this earlier in the thread (around page 3) but I think it fell on deaf ears.

That's the point I was getting at too. I was being sarcastic though.

---------- Post added August-3rd-2012 at 07:45 AM ----------

Ricky Williams. If he had stayed off the weed, stayed healthy and maybe been on a better team than Miami, I think he could be in the same discussion as Emmit Smith and Walter Payton. It was rare to find a back with his combination of strength and elusiveness.

Good one.