alexey Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Do you believe that humans have souls, and if you do, why do you believe that? I am asking this because I have recently heard what I thought to be a very strong argument against that notion. It comes from neurobiology. It is well known that losing specific parts of the brain will result in a loss of specific abilities. Various changes to the brain, such as tumors, are known to change personality traits. The thing you perceive as "you" is known to be basically an illusion. I am therefore struggling to see any room left for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I do not believe in souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Can you first define what a "soul" is before I answer? lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I am of the "I don't know and I don't care" opinion. It's a concept that's never been very appealing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 yes. I also believe in Peter Pan. *clap clap* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Can you first define what a "soul" is before I answer? lol... +1 losing/changing ability or traits /= soul imo....neither make me me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Can you first define what a "soul" is before I answer? lol... You that is not your body. You that can persist after your brain dies. (things like being in the memory of others or being a part of a universe simulated by aliens don't count) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I liked it better when the question was Do you believe in God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You that is not your body.You that can persist after your brain dies. (things like being in the memory of others or being a part of a universe simulated by aliens don't count) Ok, so...how does that match up with what you said in the OP: It is well known that losing specific parts of the brain will result in a loss of specific abilities. Various changes to the brain, such as tumors, are known to change personality traits. The thing you perceive as "you" is known to be basically an illusion. I am therefore struggling to see any room left for the soul. If souls do exist, then what you said about losing "specific abilities" or personality changes brought on by brain tumors are irrelevant. If we go by what you said just now, then we would need to ask if it's possible for us to exist beyond our physical bodies...and if so, what form would we take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINS@THEGOALLINE Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Yes, and it weighs 21 grams. http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Ok, so...how does that match up with what you said in the OP:If souls do exist, then what you said about losing "specific abilities" or personality changes brought on by brain tumors are irrelevant. If we go by what you said just now, then we would need to ask if it's possible for us to exist beyond our physical bodies...and if so, what form would we take. I am not sure what you are asking. The difficulty I am having is seeing grounds for postulating a soul in light of evidence that we now have about the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you believe in the Bible, how can you not? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think you are confusing the mind with the "soul". My interpretation of the soul has been that 'essence' of personhood. Damage to the brain may change how you perceive the world, but the 'soul' is still this entity which is independent of your physiology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you believe in the Bible, how can you not?Hail. You get to pick which parts to take literally. ---------- Post added May-13th-2012 at 07:21 PM ---------- I think you are confusing the mind with the "soul". My interpretation of the soul has been that 'essence' of personhood. Damage to the brain may change how you perceive the world, but the 'soul' is still this entity which is independent of your physiology. I am asking people whether they believe in existence of such "essense" and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I am not sure what you are asking. The difficulty I am having is seeing grounds for postulating a soul in light of evidence that we now have about the brain. In the OP, you make the assumption that our personalities and abilities define "who we are" at our soul...then go on to say that since our personalities and abilities can be altered and manipulated through external forces on the brain, it should throw into doubt "who we are". In your follow-up post, though, you say that our "soul" is who we are separate from our bodies. That would mean who we are separate from things like the effects of brain tumors--because, of course, things like tumors would be part of the body. If we go with your second post, then the soul isn't defined by personality traits, but by its existence separate from the body. So the question should be, is it possible for us to exist once the body dies...and if so, what form would we take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 In the OP, you make the assumption that our personalities and abilities define "who we are" at our soul...then go on to say that since our personalities and abilities can be altered and manipulated through external forces on the brain, it should throw into doubt "who we are". In your follow-up post, though, you say that our "soul" is who we are separate from our bodies. That would mean who we are separate from things like the effects of brain tumors--because, of course, things like tumors would be part of the body. If we go with your second post, then the soul isn't defined by personality traits, but by its existence separate from the body. So the question should be, is it possible for us to exist once the body dies...and if so, what form would we take. I am merely asking why you would think that there is more to you than your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I am merely asking why you would think that there is more to you than your body. And I am merely asking you why you would think brain tumors effecting our personality means there is NOT more to you than your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No, I don't. I think this question will STRONGLY correlate with whether you believe in a god(s) or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I am asking people whether they believe in existence of such "essense" and why. Then the brain example doesn't work. Even taking away tumors, the nervous system degenerates over time anyways. But I haven't seen the 'soul' as ever being defined by the mental state of its occupant. It's a purely religious concept. It isn't possible for science to determine the validity of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I do. But I have no desire to change anyone else's mind, nor allowing them to try to change mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 You get to pick which parts to take literally. 'K, as reticent as I am to broach religion, I'll play. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. I interpret that to mean we do not have a soul, we ARE a soul. The Trinity- Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Mind, Body, Soul. To me, our soul is spiritual, just like the Holy Spirit, who's image we're made in. I'm not big on quoting scripture, and if truth be told I had to ask someone far more theological than myself for the above quote, although I knew more or less the premise of what I was looking for. And if you want to get literal as you asked, I have more. As Conn so succinctly said, this ultimately comes down to if you believe in God or not. As I said in the post you responded to above, as to your OP; for me, if you believe in the Bible, how can you not believe in the existence of a human soul? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 You get to pick which parts to take literally.yes yes shellfish and all that. I wish we'd get past this disengenious bull****. Cut to the chase wnd detail your preferred philosophy and let it stand against challengers. I am asking people whether they believe in existence of such "essense" and why.Yes. They exist and humanity is born with an innate knowledge of it (among other things). Some people (with varying motives) attempt to obscure and separate people from this knowledge we intuitively feel. Cab brain injuries change people? Certainly. The soul isn't a personality or a favorite food, it's deeper than that. It's the light that shines or shadow that consumes that exists beneath all that. It grows or diminishes with choices we make in spite of circumstance or the condition of its mortal shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 No, I don't. I think this question will STRONGLY correlate with whether you believe in a god(s) or not. Would believing there is a essence of yourself that survives your body mean you believe in a god by default? seems a sad existence to believe we are nothing more than flesh and blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Only a sad existence if religious spirituality is of utmost importance to you. Otherwise, it doesn't make an iota of difference to those of us who are apathetic towards this issue. Being agnostic towards afterlife has made me value this current life much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 seems a sad existence to believe we are nothing more than flesh and blood It certainly isn't that way (a sad existence) for a great many who have such thoughts. And it "seems" obvious to me that this is this quite well-known to be the case for such folk, just (relatedly) as it is well-known for many who believe there is more than "flesh and blood" (as you put it) to feel absolutely miserable about existence. Funny you would "seem" to be unaware of that as implied in your statements, and I don't believe you really are unaware of it of course. Per your first question, btw, of course one can have beliefs that can include possibility of some sort of "essence" (your term) without believing in the "existence of god" as characterized by Christianity or other religions. Other than that, I knew I would not be participating in this one. Carry on and best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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