twa Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Certainly is an unsettling thought, isn't it? Why unsettling if it doesn't matter? Isn't it easier to simply accept our existence ends like other creatures?...no worries, no pressure to do more than live life With the hoops some create to qualify for a afterlife they seem masochists rather than taking the easy route. I left off procreating where a part of ya certainly does live on, but then some consider them parasitic ,so think carefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 A bit. Until you accept that we're just here for this life, and try to enjoy it. I'm not saying my mind couldn't be changed, but it would take a seriously unlikely chain of events like the ones SWFL describes. I would reevaluate my position with new evidence. I just don't see any presenting itself. Of course, if you accept this particular certainty, then you start to question all sorts of things. If we're only here for one life, that could end at any moment and be snuffed out completely with no greater meaning....then why do we spend so much time in the proverbial "rat race"? Why do we put so much attention on things, spend so much precious time on things, that don't make us happy, as an individual or as a species? Its means nothing in the long run. Or in the short run, if you're unhappy and your life ends tomorrow. Honestly, I don't see an afterlife having much effect in my decision to enter the rat race. I like stuff, and the way you buy stuff is with money. The way you get money is through a job. Either way, afterlife or not, all that stuff is not with you when you die. ---------- Post added May-13th-2012 at 11:34 PM ---------- Why unsettling if it doesn't matter? Isn't it easier to simply accept our existence ends like other creatures?...no worries, no pressure to do more than live life With the hoops some create to qualify for a afterlife they seem masochists rather than taking the easy route. Well it's a double-edged sword, really. It does lift the burden of living to try and get to the after-life, but at the same time, you realize that at some point, there won't be a you. You'll simply cease to be. Obviously, when that happens I won't care as there won't be an 'I' to care, but until then, there is. Personally, I've already come to terms with it, so I don't really think about it much. When my time comes, it comes, I guess, but I'd rather it didn't. At least not until I'm ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Why unsettling if it doesn't matter? Isn't it easier to simply accept our existence ends like other creatures?...no worries, no pressure to do more than live life With the hoops some create to qualify for a afterlife they seem masochists rather than taking the easy route. Maybe. You could also say that its easier to just believe that you have an ever-living soul, and if you just live pretty much how you'd live anyways, you'll live forever in paradise. It goes both ways. I think most people would agree that unless you are a bad person, its easy to see how eternal life beyond this one > this life, and that's it, dead in the ground, its over. You can look at it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I've got to ask, SWFL, as I've been wondering this for most of this thread... do the circumstances of any part of your spiritual awakening involve peyote? So I was tripping when my Mother was dying of cancer? I think you might want to rescind that. I am at great personal risk sharing very personal information with people on ES I thought to be trust worthy. I also was not tripping when I held my Grandmothers hand and she died of cancer as well. I have however tripped and would known the difference. When out West I was on business and in my forties, so no I was not tripping then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Honestly, I don't see an afterlife having much effect in my decision to enter the rat race. I like stuff, and the way you buy stuff is with money. The way you get money is through a job. Either way, afterlife or not, all that stuff is not with you when you die. Then my point didn't apply to you, because it makes you happy, as I said the goal should probably be with just the one finite life. You're good then. ---------- Post added May-13th-2012 at 11:40 PM ---------- See, this is why I was being very delicate in my disagreement with SWFL. Because I know two things: 1. These experiences are very personal and important to him, whether we "believe" him or not, and 2. Any overly strong disagreement is basically an accusation that he's lying, dellusional, or straight up crazy. Hence, I said his posts in this thread were trump cards in the conversation. You can't agree without completely changing your world-view, and you can't disagree without dialing the conversation up to 11...in a bad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 A bit. Until you accept that we're just here for this life, and try to enjoy it. I'm not saying my mind couldn't be changed, but it would take a seriously unlikely chain of events like the ones SWFL describes. I would reevaluate my position with new evidence. I just don't see any presenting itself. Of course, if you accept this particular certainty, then you start to question all sorts of things. If we're only here for one life, that could end at any moment and be snuffed out completely with no greater meaning....then why do we spend so much time in the proverbial "rat race"? Why do we put so much attention on things, spend so much precious time on things, that don't make us happy, as an individual or as a species? Its means nothing in the long run. Or in the short run, if you're unhappy and your life ends tomorrow. Trust me when I say that if this happens, if some new evidence, or experiences anything like yours completely re-invent my world-view, you will be one of the first to know if you are still around ES at that time. I am more than open to being wrong on this topic, because its BIG. It changes everything. In some ways, I'd rather be wrong. That's not to say that I find my belief on our current existence depressing or a negative thing. Its just that eternal life, the existence of an ever-living soul, would be so much better. My events could have easily have been missed had I not been tripping apparently. Sort of LOL. An open mind is what has brought me this far, and as I said I have just been continuing to look for understanding of what I have experienced and still experience. ---------- Post added May-13th-2012 at 11:48 PM ---------- Then my point didn't apply to you, because it makes you happy, as I said the goal should probably be with just the one finite life. You're good then. ---------- Post added May-13th-2012 at 11:40 PM ---------- See, this is why I was being very delicate in my disagreement with SWFL. Because I know two things: 1. These experiences are very personal and important to him, whether we "believe" him or not, and 2. Any overly strong disagreement is basically an accusation that he's lying, dellusional, or straight up crazy. Hence, I said his posts in this thread were trump cards in the conversation. You can't agree without completely changing your world-view, and you can't disagree without dialing the conversation up to 11...in a bad way. And I clearly stated I understood and understand the burden and the risk of sharing. I happen to think you guys are worth the effort. Your at least discussing the reasoning, the possibility and in an intelligent manner. I could go on and on about the experiences, I only choose one, and on Mothers Day. I appreciate your opinion Conn, I do. Did I expect you to just drop your beliefs which are steep in your own experiences and cultural teachings, no, but I am still happy to have the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 My mind is plenty open, including on this topic. Just because I don't ever foresee myself experiencing anything like you experienced, and don't foresee myself believing in the existence of the human soul in the future, doesn't mean it won't happen. I'm open to any new evidence that presents itself. Just as I haven't ridiculed your posts in this thread because I respect that you believe it all happened, and appreciate you sharing the way they changed your life. If you read all of that and still say that I'll never believe because my mind is closed, then I don't know what to tell you. Unless by all of this you really mean that I'll never get my "proof" until I blindly believe in the first place. And that becomes circuitous logic with no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 When my time comes, it comes, I guess, but I'd rather it didn't. At least not until I'm ready. Can't say I am ready either yet, but finding out gets more appealing every day......getting old sucks think I'll go lay in the dirt to get used to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 My mind is plenty open, including on this topic. Just because I don't ever foresee myself experiencing anything like you experienced, and don't foresee myself believing in the existence of the human soul in the future, doesn't mean it won't happen. I'm open to any new evidence that presents itself. Just as I haven't ridiculed your posts in this thread because I respect that you believe it all happened, and appreciate you sharing the way they changed your life. If you read all of that and still say that I'll never believe because my mind is closed, then I don't know what to tell you. Unless by all of this you really mean that I'll never get my "proof" until I blindly believe in the first place. And that becomes circuitous logic with no end. Whoa man, not saying that at all. I appreciate your respectful conversation and I do believe you are plenty open minded. That said, enough said. Have a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 What the heck? I'll take the bait,(though I do consider this a catch and release policy thing). I think I've always believed in the human soul. As I grew older I had my share of experiences that reaffirmed that belief to me. A sight,a feeling,something instinctual,(all of the above),that I noticed when watching the eyes of those passing on or who had. Which happened more than enough to come to the conclusion I did. And that's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I appreciate your opinion Conn, I do. Did I expect you to just drop your beliefs which are steep in your own experiences and cultural teachings, no, but I am still happy to have the conversation. As am I, and I find it very interesting. Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad that a discussion about such different world-views can be had peacefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think that about clears things up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUSkins24 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 No because in high school I legit sold my soul to one of my classmates, and I've been doing better since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Of course, if you accept this particular certainty, then you start to question all sorts of things. If we're only here for one life, that could end at any moment and be snuffed out completely with no greater meaning....then why do we spend so much time in the proverbial "rat race"? Why do we put so much attention on things, spend so much precious time on things, that don't make us happy, as an individual or as a species? Its means nothing in the long run. Or in the short run, if you're unhappy and your life ends tomorrow.. Got me. I never have. I love my life. It's not always easy and I could have more money or comfort I guess, but that's never brought me happiness. I've had an incredible life, known some amazing people. seen and done more things than most of the folks I've met. Now I'm on a new adventure, meeting new people and seeing new things. I never thought I'd actually be able to live on a Caribbean island. I'm gonna learn to sail and dive and do other amazing things. I get out of work and I can go snorkel with sea turtles. Hell, when my dogs ready for a walk, I'm gonna grab a blue flash light, walk in the light of the stars on the beach and see if I can't watch one lay eggs. I hear it's amazing. Live your life, have fun and smile everyday. Fall in love as often as you can and just be free. **** the rat race. **** things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think that about clears things up.. I was actually going to post this one Figured I'd stay out of this one, since I have a fair amount of respect for people on both sides of this discussion, and my views don't coincide with either of the viewpoints/opnions, etc that have been presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I believe it but I'm not gonna try to change anyone's mind. I'll believe what I believe and they will believe what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 my views don't coincide with either of the viewpoints/opnions, etc that have been presented. That can only enrich the conversation, in my opinion. Feel free to chime in if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 So I was tripping when my Mother was dying of cancer? I think you might want to rescind that. I am at great personal risk sharing very personal information with people on ES I thought to be trust worthy. I also was not tripping when I held my Grandmothers hand and she died of cancer as well. It should be fairly obvious that I was not referencing either of those events... I have however tripped and would known the difference. When out West I was on business and in my forties, so no I was not tripping then either. ... but when you mention traveling "out west" and use some of the language you have co-opted for this conversation then the question isn't entirely unfair. Never mind the fact that some people and traditions do consider hallucinogens a legitimate gateway to the spiritual world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I never presented the fact that we have the intelligence to consider the existence of a soul, as evidence against having one--I merely stated that I don't believe we have one, I just think we're intelligent enough, in comparison to other life-forms on this planet, to contemplate the idea, and we often do--and many come to the conclusion that we DO have a soul. I never presented those thoughts as being connected, as if it was a point against having a soul. I just don't believe we do, and those are my general thoughts on the topic presented afterwards. Only an imbecile would suggest that this makes sense: "we can question whether we have a soul.....we must have no soul!"And in my defense, the word significant was supposed to reference a percentage of the living things on this earth. As in, a significant portion. But through re-typing/editing of that post, it got moved around. I won't even get into the bacteria vs. human brain topic, in regards to number of decisions made. I think we can both agree that we are not talking about the same types of decisions. Your initial post would seem to assert that dolphins don't have souls currently, and since they don't have souls currently, it would not be expected that they'd have souls in the future if they evolved to be more like us. Thus as we are just more "highly" evolved organisms, there is no reason to believe we have souls. If your point is that you don't belive we have souls, and weren't trying to support that argument in any manner, you did a whole lot of extra typing. I doubt you and I make the same kinds of decisions on a regular basis that doesn't suggest anything about the quality, the value, or our ability to make decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If your point is that you don't belive we have souls, and weren't trying to support that argument in any manner, you did a whole lot of extra typing. Both of you engaged in a lot of completely unnecessary typing :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If dolphins don't have souls, then we sure as hell don't. When was the last time you heard about a dolphin doing evil or causing global weather change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabR Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 no, there is no reason to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 It should be fairly obvious that I was not referencing either of those events...... but when you mention traveling "out west" and use some of the language you have co-opted for this conversation then the question isn't entirely unfair. Never mind the fact that some people and traditions do consider hallucinogens a legitimate gateway to the spiritual world. Without further elaboration it was not fairly obvious. If it was a legitimate question based on the OUT West expereinces, you would have referenced a particular quote that I had made. You want to dance play some music, you want to eat cook some food, you want to apologize for misleading comments, then say sorry, you don't so be it. Here was your quote.... Originally Posted by Enter Apotheosis I've got to ask, SWFL, as I've been wondering this for most of this thread... do the circumstances of any part of your spiritual awakening involve peyote? I think it is fairly obvious what was intended, if not I apologize, and it should be fairly obvious how it was taken, true intentions aside. ---------- Post added May-14th-2012 at 08:28 AM ---------- If dolphins don't have souls, then we sure as hell don't. When was the last time you heard about a dolphin doing evil or causing global weather change? Man's ego. HE thinks more of himself than he truly is, while also thinking less of others and degrading himself. Yes that makes no sense in more than one way., ---------- Post added May-14th-2012 at 08:32 AM ---------- I believe it but I'm not gonna try to change anyone's mind. I'll believe what I believe and they will believe what they believe. no, there is no reason to. You got to give to get. And I am gonna try and change peoples mind. God's warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 That happened for me at twenty three, coincidence, I think not. Sorry you were under the impression I was being condescending, I just don't think you have experienced the things I have, in fact I am sure of that. I hope you don't, never the less you will experience things that with you eyes open will have meanings that you never would have imagined. Again, no slight intended. I had a similar experience with my Mom and yesterday sucked for me too. Always does. ---------- Post added May-14th-2012 at 08:34 AM ---------- I had a similar experience with my Mom and yesterday sucked for me too. Always does. I agree with the Mans Ego thing too. We think we are so special, while we act like locusts and place ourselves over every other living thing, backed by our illustrious God who justifies our greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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