How does RG3 compare to other QB prospects coming out of college over the past 10 years?

[Destino]

Oye. How many of those teams did you actually watch a game? Stats, as usual, don't tell the story. Weeden in particular was a FAR better passer than RGIII, and he would be a clear top 10 pick if he wasnt 28 years old. The Ok St. offense actually required him to throw downfield and hit medium-range passes. Baylor's offense barely requires any reads, it is 80% dinks and dunks. I would love to see RGIII's advanced passing stats like passing not including YAC.

I understand that everyone is excited about the new toy, but RGIII sure has become a much better player in the last 24 hours around here.

He had the most 30+, 40+, 50+, 60+, and 70+ yard passes in the conference. I'm sure all of that was YAC. I did watch several games of each because I started following likely QB options early. I also watched several "every pass" videos on the net for each. RG3 did throw a lot of screens but his deep ball accuracy was great. The speed he had at receiver helped. Weeden was good but his receivers made a lot of great catches because his ball placement was inconsistent everywhere on the field. Jones doesn't belong on the list with the other two.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Pro-style QB's you have both Mannings, Carson Palmer, Matt Sanchez, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler, Chad Henne, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Matt Schaub, Rodgers, Matt Ryan, and many more.

Brees played in a spread under Jeff Tiller, one of the great minds in the development of spread offense.

Rivers played in a spread.

Romo sits to pee played in a spread.

Flacco played in spread.

I think people overrate how much the pro-ready QBs are "ready" compared to spread guys - if you examine Tannehill's offense at A&M for example, I can't call it significantly more complex than that of RGIII's.

Also, don't lie and say you've watched games because while he does get a lot of YAC, he hits guys perfectly downfield on a regular basis.

[wilco_holland]

Don´t remember a QB comming out of college that last couple of years that lifted a programma this much as Griffin just did. He made Baylor relivant.

[Jericho]

I think there's a lot of revisionist history on Cam Newton. Many experts still ranked Gabbert higher, although admitted Newton had a higher ceiling. But as a QB prospect, the expectations were much lower than with Griffin. To me, Luck is clearly higher. Bradford is around the same level. I think Eli/Big Ben are in the neighborhood. But I'd say he's clearly above the likes of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford,JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, and David Carr. The others are more debatable.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 07:18 PM ----------

Um, I always thought that Big Ben and Rivers were absolute lock-solid sure things. Big Ben was a GREAT college QB. I don't know how he fell. To me, with his size and mobility and arm and college production, he was just a great prospect. Rivers was a certain good-to-great NFL QB to me. He isn't the athlete that some of these guys are but he was a fantastic college QB with production all the way through.

I think another issue is that QB scouting has improved and the value of the position has increased since the 80s and even since 99. So, the guy who fell in a draft many years ago may still have been regarded as a GREAT pro prospect. Alex Smith and ROdgers were (and I remember this at the time) part of a perceived "great" QB class.

Also, the people mentioning Stafford--really? He was definitely worth the #1 pick but I always thought there were serious questions about his completion pct/accuracy at Georgia and that he had the "tools" but did not always have the performance at Georgia to match.

Agreed. Big Ben was rated higher than Rivers despite being picked afterwards. That draft have seven "blue chippers". That included Eli, Bib Ben, Sean Taylor, and Kellen Winslow. It did not include Rivers.

[robotfire]

Are people forgetting Cutler? I think he was a better pure prospect than Stafford. Him playing for Vanderbilt was held against him a bit but he had a cannon arm AND he was highly mobile coming out. I think since Shanahan drafted him and he was considered VERY gifted as a passer and more accurate than Stafford, he has to go up there.

I don't think you can mention Cutler when he fell that far. The level of interest is key when answering this question. When else in the past has a guy had four teams interested in trading the house for him?

[Baylor Alum]

Baylor's offense barely requires any reads, it is 80% dinks and dunks. I would love to see RGIII's advanced passing stats like passing not including YAC.

Absolutely incorrect. Here is what you asked for. Check out Peter King's article that compares RG3's air yards to Luck and Weedon's (Look at page 4.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1195358/4/index.htm

[Spunkush]

There is just SOMETHING about Eli that is off to me. I know he has proven himself with 2 rings, but I still don't want him as the starter for my team

Haha "he won 2 superbowls in 5years, but I just don't think he can win with my team" is what ur saying

[Jericho]

Great question!! How far back does Kipers rating/ranking go?

Good question. I know people complain about Kiper, but he's one observer that you can put a track record to. Here are some I found online, along with Scout.com (from FoxSports):

2011:

Kiper:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?id=6431939

Newton was the 15th best prospect, second best QB (Gabbert was 14th)

Scout.com:

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2011

Newton was the 10th best prospect, first QB (Gabbert was 11th)

2010:

Kiper:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=5679067

Bradford was the 5th best prospect overall (second to Clausen at #4)

Scout.com

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2010

Bradford was #2, Clausen 5

2009

Had trouble finding Kiper's board this far back, so am using scout.com from here on in

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2009

Stafford 6th overall (Sanchez first QB at #5)

2008:

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2008

Ryan was 4th overall (1st QB)

2007:

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2007

Russell 3rd overall, Quinn was 12th

2006:

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2006

Leinart was the the top QB at #7, Young was at 9 and Cutler at 11

2005:

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2005

Aaron Rodgers was the first QB ranked 6th overall, Alex Smith was 7th (for Redskins fans, Campbell ranked as the 42nd best prospect, but 3rd QB)

2012

By comparison, Kiper's current Big board has Luck #1 overall and Griffin #4 (McShay and Scouts, Inc has Luck - 1, Griffin - 2). Scout.com also ranks Luck and Griffin 1,2

[Ghost of]

PB,

You done got served. Just admit being wrong man.

[Hitman21ST]

Absolutely incorrect. Here is what you asked for. Check out Peter King's article that compares RG3's air yards to Luck and Weedon's (Look at page 4.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1195358/4/index.htm

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Some blurbs from 2001:

Michael Vick will be looking to wow the NFL brass, and particularly San Diego Charger GM John Butler, during individual testing. ... The second-highest-rated quarterback going into the combine, Purdue's Drew Brees, may have lost some ground. While he was solid in the shorter areas, he struggled some throwing the ball down the field.

1. Michael Vick, Virginia Tech -- You definitely can't teach the raw skills that Vick brings to an offense. He has a strong arm, runs under 4.35 in the 40, bench-presses 325 pounds and has nearly a 40-inch vertical jump. He's also a student of the game, showing outstanding leadership qualities. With that said, in order for Vick to realize all of that exciting potential, he'll have to develop his skills as a pure passer and develop more patience in the pocket, allowing him to beat a defense with his arm as well as with his incredible running skills. And at just 6 feet tall, it will be interesting to see how he throws the ball when pressured up the gut. Even with these concerns and the fact that he's not a finished product, Vick remains at the top of the draft board due to his enormous potential.

A Cut Above The Rest

Blessed with talents rarely seen in a quarterback, Virginia Tech's Michael Vick is a physical marvel without a typical superstar's ego

( :rotflmao:)

[...]Michael Vick, the All-America quarterback for Virginia Tech, and maybe, if you believe what football people are saying, the most exciting player at his position the college game has ever seen.

[...]"We can't believe him around here sometimes," says Virginia Tech senior safety Nick Sorensen. "He has strength, quickness, speed and the strongest arm you'll ever see. What the kid doesn't have, I don't know. It's all so effortless for him. Go watch a tape of one of our games, and watch him on a long run. Put it in slow motion. The guy's not running; he's floating. Michael Vick is just a sick athlete. It's crazy."

At 6'1", 214 pounds, Vick is what coaches once liked to call a "specimen," although these days the term of choice seems to be "freak," as in freak of nature. He's a freak because he's so gifted he makes you forget the great players who have starred at his position.

"Wherever I go," says senior guard Matt Lehr, "people say, 'What's he like? Is he ****y? Is he a big airhead?' Considering all the attention he gets, the guy could be a problem. But Mike doesn't seem affected by it at all. He's still just one of the guys in the locker room. He's still quiet, considerate of others, a gentleman. Truth is, Michael Vick is almost too good to be true."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019914/index.htm

Vick admits he could have used another year of seasoning, but he departed after learning he could be the first pick in the draft and command at least $50 million over seven years. "I realize I have a lot to learn," he said last week. "But the opportunity was presented to me, and I said to myself, Be a man, not a boy, and take advantage of the opportunity. My family is so important to me, and now I have an opportunity to take care of it."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1021600/index.htm

[dsciambi]

Listen to interviews with Vick and with RG3 and tell me they have the same level of maturity.

Also, Vick was clearly a run first QB.

[Mr. Nostril]

ESPN Insider has a list of every player drafted over the past 9 years, with numerical grades. These grades were given before the draft. A lot of things about this list don't feel correct to me, but I figure numerical rankings created before each years draft is about as objective an answer to this question you can possibly find. Here's a list of every quarterback they rated 93 or better. The list is in order by grade, and if there's a tie for the same grade, then the tied players are listed alphabetical by last name.

Andrew Luck - 99

Aaron Rodgers - 99

Ben Roethlisberger - 99

Matt Leinart - 98

Eli Manning - 98

JaMarcus Russell - 98

Matt Ryan - 98

Alex Smith - 98

Sam Bradford - 97

Robert Griffin III - 97

Brady Quinn - 97

Vince Young - 97

Jay Cutler - 96

Blaine Gabbert - 96

Matthew Stafford - 96

Phillip Rivers - 95

Mark Sanchez - 95

Brian Brohm - 93

Cam Newton - 93

Also, just for sake of comparing him to the last "franchise QB" we drafted, Jason Campell rating was 86.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Andrew Luck - 99

Aaron Rodgers - 99 Won Super Bowl

Ben Roethlisberger - 99 Won Super Bowl

Matt Leinart - 98

Eli Manning - 98 Won Super Bowl

JaMarcus Russell - 98

Matt Ryan - 98 Playoffs

Alex Smith - 98 NFC Championship Game

Sam Bradford - 97

Robert Griffin III - 97

Brady Quinn - 97

Vince Young - 97 Playoffs

Jay Cutler - 96 NFC Championship Game

Blaine Gabbert - 96

Matthew Stafford - 96 Playoffs

Phillip Rivers - 95 AFC Championship Game

Mark Sanchez - 95 AFC Championship Game

Brian Brohm - 93

Cam Newton - 93

What was Brees rated?

[Mr. Nostril]

What was Brees rated?

They only started doing it 9 years ago. So, he wasn't.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

They only started doing it 9 years ago. So, he wasn't.

Whoops, I skipped right over that part lol :doh:...

What about Beck? lol ...

[Mr. Nostril]

Beck got an 86. Same as Campbell.

[spjunkies]

Whoops, I skipped right over that part lol :doh:...

What about Beck? lol ...

John Beck - 4

[pimpumd]

PB,

You done got served. Just admit being wrong man.

Yeah really.

I have to admit I found it amusing when he said that college football is his "religion," then immediately followed that up with the claim that RG3's passing stats were inflated by YAC and an offense that was "80% dink and dunk." Wow.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Does anyone have a good sense of what his weaknesses are?

Yes. Footwork. Inexperience under center. Reading defenses. Tends to drop his shoulder on a lot of throws (mechanics). He's by no means perfect but he's a quick learner.

I'm talking out of my ass btw. Who knows? The kid can ball and I'm sure he'll get the right kind of coaching.

[bowhunter]

Beck got an 86. Same as Campbell.

That's the kind of data I was hoping to see. Pre-draft data that would enable us to compare apples to apples. Although it is all from the same source, I doubt that it is all from the same writers. Still quite an interesting read. Thanks

[Mr. Nostril]

Something to consider about the list I put up a few posts back, is that it appears whoever is creating these grades for ESPN got more stingy with the high grades starting in 2009.

From 2009-2012 only Andrew Luck and Gerald McCoy received a 98 or 99 grade. However, from 2004-2008, there were 24 players who received the 2 highest grades. That's not possibly attributable to the talent pool drying up; that's a change in the grading system. So, it's probably only a reliable measure of how highly rated a player coming out of college was for the past 4 years.

[Laron Burgundy]

Something to consider about the list I put up a few posts back, is that it appears whoever is creating these grades for ESPN got more stingy with the high grades starting in 2009.

From 2009-2012 only Andrew Luck and Gerald McCoy received a 98 or 99 grade. However, from 2004-2008, there were 24 players who received the 2 highest grades. That's not possibly attributable to the talent pool drying up; that's a change in the grading system. So, it's probably only a reliable measure of how highly rated a player coming out of college was for the past 4 years.

I can't imagine anyone actually rated Rodgers as 99 at the draft. Or even Roethlisberger over Rivers and Eli. I just don't see it.

[grego]

Good question. I know people complain about Kiper, but he's one observer that you can put a track record to. Here are some I found online, along with Scout.com (from FoxSports):

By comparison, Kiper's current Big board has Luck #1 overall and Griffin #4 (McShay and Scouts, Inc has Luck - 1, Griffin - 2). Scout.com also ranks Luck and Griffin 1,2

thanks for the work, jericho. i was thinking that luck and rg3 were a cut above other qb's recently. nice to see it.

[also nice to see i'm not losing my mind ]

[Mr. Nostril]

I can't imagine anyone actually rated Rodgers as 99 at the draft. Or even Roethlisberger over Rivers and Eli. I just don't see it.

I can totally see Roethlisberger over Rivers and Eli. I was vocal about saying Ben was the best QB available in that draft. The only reason Rivers and Eli were drafted ahead of him was a power 6 conference bias.

As for Rodgers getting a 99 and being the best player on a consensus big board...well, I agree, that doesn't mesh with how I remember the hype going into the 2005 draft.