WEx: 5 myths about the Redskins

[No_Pressure]

Most of the posts about needing to lose more games weren't because we expected the team to tank the season. Part of it was fans who wanted to see it happen because it would mean a better draft pick. The writer talks about fans who promote losing games on purpose. What if we don't mind of the team loses games because they suck? What if those same people are confused by other fans who wanted to see the team win out once we were 4-8 or whatever rather than see the team lose for a better pick? That isn't the same thing as demanding and expecting the actual team themselves to lose games intentionally. All most fans here did was hope that the team continued to fail hard so we would have a better shot at a high draft pick in a meaningless portion of a lost season.

[Dirt]

Yes, that sounds very nice and innocent to say "Well we didn't WANT them to lose from kickoff but it sucked when they won". That's just a hell of a cop-out.

The point is, the whole line of thinking is point-LESS, because it is 100% created by fans, and in no way will ever be a reality for actual football players. It is a fairy tale, and a waste of your time/brain. That goes double for you playing the 'what-if' game saying we would be pick #3 if we lost this and that or whatever. Now, you're telling a fairy tale with a time machine.

My #1 problem with the whole thing is that it looks to be a dangerous habit. When will it stop? What if, say, Trent gets injured or smokes more pot...our rookie QB is having a so-so year...you're just going to want to lose out for another franchise LT. Or any other scenario, you start looking at guys who haven't played one down of NFL football, fall in love with them, and decide losing games is important. You guys are out-thinking yourselves. You're not smarter, you're not seeing some 'big picture', you're not just looking at the future...you're annoying the hell out of people. Shut. the **** up with that **** and stop trying to rationalize it. It is made up garbage. Do it silently if you must do it. As for the draft picks lost/gained in whatever situation, you get what you get. You can't manipulate the system. There are 32 teams. The NFL universe does not revolve around the Redskins. You certainly don't manipulate it by losing games. So, again, stop wasting whatever brain capacity you people have left thinking of these possibilities. Just ROOT FOR YOUR TEAM.

Anyway, the best part of the article, IMO, is the reminder that we're still allowed to touch FA despite failure in the past. Also a reminder that we need to wait until FA before making a bunch of predictions.

I like the defense of Rex, too. He is truly unique, and is good 'enough' when he's good to earn some respect. Big time 3rd down throws all year by Rex. Seriously, think about it, didn't you feel a little confident on 3rd and longs this year? We got a lot of them. Despite all that, I have to disagree with the header because I would have to say, Rex pretty much is a joke.

And the young guys thing explained perfectly. That annoyed me almost as much as the draft-pickers lol. I mean really, some of you wanted to SIT or CUT a few hard working veterans so that some 21 year old could play. You people would absolutely destroy a franchise if given the chance.

[CommanderDOOM]

Trade for Manning............idiot.

[BurgundyBlood]

It's hard to imagine the Rams giving up on Bradford so soon but I would certainly be excited to have him as the Skins QB. Sure there are other considerations (e.g. what we had to trade for him) but putting that aside for a moment, that kid has all kinds of potential and would potentially solve our QB problems for a decade.

As for Manning, sure giving up a 1st round pick for him is insane, but if the Colts think he's used up and are willing to trade him for a 5th or later, just the POSSIBILITY that he might recover would be worth that trade. Both the saints and dolphins thought Brees' career was over and look how that turned out!

[Commander PK]

I don't ask for people to lavish praise upon my football team. All I ask is that when they're being critical, to be fair.

in a nutshell.

Good write-up. Very fair, and the tone isn't cynical or mean-spirited. No pot shots. No bringing up mistakes made in 2003 to make some kind of case about the team in 2012.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I am glad that win over the Jaguars in December last year helped create a "culture of winning" A real turning point for the career of Kevin Barnes making getting that INT in OT

Still not afraid to say I'd rather have lost the Seahawks and Giants games. The first loss to the Iggles killed me after our 3-1 start

[Darth Tater]

I don't think anybody wanted the team to lose on purpose. People just preferred we lose naturally. There's a difference.

Given that losing on purpose is the meaning of the word "tank" in context, that would mean a lot of people must have been lying then.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Given that losing on purpose is the meaning of the word "tank" in context, that would mean a lot of people must have been lying then.

I disagree. I didn't see many people say we should "tank". I saw a lot of people who wanted to lose.

[Commander PK]

I disagree. I didn't see many people say we should "tank". I saw a lot of people who wanted to lose.

so they wanted the team to lose....trying to win. To play hard... but lose every game.

Wow, with fans like this, who needs DMV Dallas fans.

[ArmchairRedskin]

so they wanted the team to lose....trying to win. To play hard... but lose every game.

Wow, with fans like this, who needs DMV Dallas fans.

I've been a fan for a very long time and this is the first season I've ever actively hoped we'd lose to secure a better draft pick. The QB's at the top of this draft are special. Picking in the teens would have taken us out of reach to get one of them. Or at the very least would have made it ridiculously expensive to make that move. I make no apologies for wanting the Redskins to secure higher draft pick to make selecting one of those two guys a real possiblity. I couldn't care less if we had won 2 or 3 more games. In the end, we'd have just been a sub .500 team or a with limited options to ugrade our QB situation. I've had enough of the losing. Give me my franchise QB already. Give me my longterm success.

[Jumbo]

I disagree. I didn't see many people say we should "tank". I saw a lot of people who wanted to lose.

Dude, you're a smart guy and a valued poster and you know me.

And of course I (and most anyone) gets you and gets those feelings, especially as expressed in that last post you made that I didn't quote. Fine.

To the quoted post (but most of what follows certainly is just "in general", and not about you): the moderators of this board knows this place better than anyone, and I certainly will claim I do as one of them (hubris be damned ), and we not only see all this stuff plainly, clearly, and in accurate ratio, but even we have been surprised and amazed at this latest variety of numb-nutz nonsense.

I really don't know how you could miss the fact that there were notably more than some small number of people who actively hoped to lose specific games (numerous posts in numerous threads) with no minced words, in no uncertain terms, or with nuanced "feelings" (and yes there were also a signcifant numbers of "less agressive" versions of such leanings too).

Not only that, but many also expressed actual anger at each win towards the end and even directed derision at members who cheered for, or celebrated, a win. Such as those were banned in a number of cases by staff in appropriate context, and quite cheerfully, as would any similarly-behaving cowboy troll. :cool:

As I continue to see still more of the lame-brain repetition by some posters, of the same old "explanations" that WE ALL ALREADY KNOW , and even further actual denial of certain clear realities as I am addressing here, I have little doubt that a few more fools will likely receive a B2A experience before it finally dies down in the off-season.

Now as even most of those walking braindead :evilg: will know by now, when it comes to any given topic or position on any matter, I don't really give a rat's ass who thinks what per se---as the old saw goes, everybody has an opinion and this is an internet message board with all that means to the savvy participant with any kind of functioning prefrontal cortex. For my own views on the matter, I have endlessly included the "duh" disclaimer that most anyone will at least use having a high draft as consolation for a ****ty record and continued losses, and all the angst of long years of disappointing seasons we all have been through as Redskins fans.

But the stuff I repeatedly indict is exactly as I carefully word it my posts, though we are replete with idiots (including those who are sure they're quite smart) who seemed to be baffled by English and suffer limited comprehension skills in their haste to "explain" or "justify" some more nuanced version of this "stance" that isn't even under my attack, or just throw the same old crap at me like I haven't read it a thousand times and obviously don't find it persuasive.

As for guys I even really like as posters, like SHF, I can still think he's absolutely fill of **** (as he can with me) and I can even do my never-done-before claim of someone "not being a real fan in my book when .....", just as another ES amigo of mine, Kings Gibbs can fairly wonder or question "why anyone else can even care about such things or play that card." That is all about simply strong opinions differing among worthy posters who all bring a lot to the table in a big picture sense. And counting that is part of any overall intelligent perspective on such matters when making a judment about some aspects of this matter (IMV).

Man, people can be so dense about even simple **** (or what should be simple ****) and then think they're smart enough to review professionals in a complex field---of course for a Master's Course in this you need to be a regular in the tailgate :pfft:.

No wonder interdweeb message boards are justly famous for mass retardism. Finally, referring back to liking somebody and still having a castigating view on some stance of theirs, I'm sure I'm not the only one who as had a good buddy of some sort that I'll call out in very harsh terms (though rarely) on some matter without it meaning that I "reject" them in some overall sense or find them really <whatever> in some seriously pervasive sense.

So all of this is all part of this crapola dynamic. It's one I really won't miss when it's gone. It's been a low point in ES history, not that any such thing can ever be all that meaningful in life outside, or even just on this board, overall.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I'll be glad when it's done with also, Jumbo, believe me. I don't like the way I felt this year. Only thing to do now is to hope there is a payoff.

[Jumbo]

I'll be glad when it's done with also, Jumbo, believe me. I don't like the way I felt this year. Only thing to do now is to hope there is a payoff.

We are one in that, my brother. We are of a kind, ya know.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

As someone who bought into the whole "losing now to win later" thing, you've got to understand. We've been picking the 3rd best QB in the draft, or the FA retread, or hoping that the late-round project would pan out. This has been the case ever since we lost on Trent Green. So you have to understand how people felt once the season went bad. It's dirty. It's dishonorable. I hate the idea of having to tank. But we're desperate as a fanbase, for a QB who can carry us to greatness. And the QBs at the top of the draft are really good. And we cannot miss on QB. We cannot. Or we are screwed. If we miss on QB Shanny is likely gone. If we miss on QB we flush everything we've been building since Shanny got here down the toilet. If we miss on QB we blow the primes of our young stars.

Saying "whatever happens, happens" and "You get whatever picks you get" feels unacceptable in the context of the fact that getting the QB decision wrong really does screw us over in many ways. So you have to maximize your chances of getting the decision right, i.e. getting the best player you can. And sadly, you can't hope that teams will be stupid as in 2005, when Aaron Rodgers dropped to #24. He was never even supposed to get to #9 when we picked Carlos Rogers over him.

The problem isn't so much that draft position is better, the problem is the idea of wanting to lose. Because if losing is "okay", then it will be difficult to make losing "non-okay". And if losing is "non-okay", then you've created a huge problem that may be unfixable. But that's hard to predict, while getting a higher pick to have a better shot at a QB that is by all accounts capable of being better than Stafford...than Rodgers...than Newton...than just about every other QB in football, is concrete, attainable, tangible. Or at least more tangible than culture.

So in short, until you completely blow up the draft ordering and reward winning with higher draft picks, rather than punish it, you're going to see people advocate tanking. Especially if there's a great QB in the draft and the team doesn't have one. That's just the way it is. You may hate it. I understand that. I hate having to feel like we have to tank to contend for Super Bowls 3 years from now. But it's unavoidable, as long as the draft system rewards losers.

[Jumbo]

What I "hate" Imperium, is what I stated in my post---like people telling me the same old thing like I hadn't heard it before. You wrote absolutely nothing I didn't cover, and even showed I got it, yet you just did exactly what I said was annoyingly redundant and seems to reflect compulsion and low-level comprehension when most do it. Your reply was clearly addressed to me, though you didn't quote me, otherwise I wouldn't have made this meany-pants reply.

None of that is an insult or dismissal of your feelings. As I also made painstakingly clear, we all have those feelings of suffering.

[Dirt]

I am glad that win over the Jaguars in December last year helped create a "culture of winning" A real turning point for the career of Kevin Barnes making getting that INT in OT

Still not afraid to say I'd rather have lost the Seahawks and Giants games. The first loss to the Iggles killed me after our 3-1 start

See that's my problem with it. Where is the line? Do we have to be 2-3 games over .500? When is the point where you say **** it let's lose? Who made these rules anyway? A lot easier and less stressful to just root for the team and let things play out... seeing as you can't do anything about it anyway.

For the sake of argument, I would say that Jacksonville game was less 'important' than SEA/NYG, for a couple minor reasons. However, if you're going to use hindsight, and bash Kevin Barnes etc, then you're also saying you're not happy with the draft which would mean you're not happy with Kerrigan, Helu, etc.

---------- Post added January-7th-2012 at 11:47 PM ----------

I have little doubt that a few more fools will likely receive a B2A experience before it finally dies down in the off-season.

You kidding? As soon as the trade-up goes down in April, the board is sure to be filled with plenty of unnecessary and annoying "I told you so"/"see how much that Seahawks win cost us??" crap. Hell, it'll be worse than ever :mad:

[nonniey]

Here is a qoute that clearly demonstrates that whoever wrote this article is clearly off their rocker (note some of the stuff i aggree with but this?)

"Myth 2: Rex Grossman is a joke of a quarterback. ...........Rex is not “incapable,” as a writer said of him earlier this season. Some of those who pronounced him a joke earlier in the year now refuse to admit they were wrong."

Good Grief! Why the heck should they admit they were wrong when his play showed they were right? I think the author is the one refusing to admit he was wrong.

[Dirt]

Good Grief! Why the heck should they admit they were wrong when his play showed they were right? I think the author is the one refusing to admit he was wrong.

I think what he meant is Rex isn't the kind of joke people thought he was. People know he throws picks, but when talking about 'incapable', that would mean incapable of moving the offense or even throwing a handful of good passes on the year. He looked perfectly fine like 75% of the time and them BAM out of nowhere, drive killing, mind boggling INT.

So technically he's 'capable' of moving an NFL offense (a beat up one with lots of rookies, mind you). I suppose you could say he's not capable of bring his INT number down, but at LEAST he showed he can move the ball and at least he wasn't a little ***** about it all year. Never complained really. Blamed himself without really saying so, moved on. As sad as it sounds, he performed better than expected.

[NewCliche21]

I'll be glad when it's done with also, Jumbo, believe me. I don't like the way I felt this year. Only thing to do now is to hope there is a payoff.

In three sentences you summed up EXACTLY how I felt this whole time. It's like this at the end of every 3-13, 4-12, 6-10, 5-11 season where you clearly know that it's going nowhere in January, so at least we get to look forward to the draft.

Gibbs took over a 4-12 team and that got him my favorite birthday gift of all-time: Away Taylor 21 jersey. To me, all of the losses from 2000 to 2003 were fine once Sean Taylor caught that ball in the first play of his first game at the Hall of Fame game. It was incredible, and that career does not happen if we were not 4-12 at that point. I'm sure that none of us were complaining about the abysmal 2004 season and how Sean, man, he just lit up everyone. Went on to feud with Owens as an Eagle and as a Cowboy. Sean was also a Cowboy killer and made the best play in the past ten years of our organization when he returned that blocked kick. Again, that doesn't happen without that 4-12 record.

I can't WAIT for next year. These pieces are going to be coming together in ways that none of us understand now, but whoever we get, in Shanny I trust. Our running back situation is actually a POSITIVE thing as we see that our depth is infinitely better than Portis, Larry Johnson, Parker, and Torain. The payoff is going to be huge. Good things are coming.

[PCS]

I don't think anybody wanted the team to lose on purpose. People just preferred we lose naturally. There's a difference.

Technically,yes. But both parties,of which I saw both on this board,still have the same wish. For their favorite team to lose. And to do so quite publicly at times. And that was,and is to me,exactly what I said before. I sympathize as well,with the feelings that can drive one to that point. It's been a long,tough ride to be sure.

Only a fool would believe that a fan roots for their team to lose come kickoff regardless of how they feel about draft status. All bets are off for those three hours. I let it be known that if the losses piled up (which was inevitable) that it wouldn't affect me as in years past, but for those aforementioned three hours I found myself cussing at the turnovers and penalties and being jubilant when we got a first down, scored a TD or made a stop on defense. Unfortunately there wasn't more of the latter.

Saw the comments myself both before and during a game. Again fans actively rooting for their favorite team to lose,(which,as Jumbo stated,earned some time off for some). Now there was something said about fools?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I am glad that win over the Jaguars in December last year helped create a "culture of winning" A real turning point for the career of Kevin Barnes making getting that INT in OT

Still not afraid to say I'd rather have lost the Seahawks and Giants games. The first loss to the Iggles killed me after our 3-1 start

You didn't just "rather" have had the Skins lose...you immediately started a thread proclaiming the Skins were now doomed for another 5 years because they won a "meaningless" game. You even claimed that going 4-12 might place the Redskins as far down as #10 in the drafting order, if not lower lol...

You guys need to read that write-up about John Wall and the Wizards that was in the Washington Post recently...if you think games are "meaningless" and that losing has no real side effects outside of better draft position (or with basketball better lottery chances) that article will point out rather directly the ill-effects of continuous losing...not to mention the whole "go out and get your star athlete" mantra that was getting tossed around here over the summer.

[KCClybun]

It just strikes me as funny that the same people who say they were rooting for losses this year are like "But I'll be right back to normal next year!"

What if we're out of the playoff hunt in the last 4-6 games of the season? I think some of these same voices are going to start right back up. "Man, if we got a little bit better draft position, we can go get <insert prospect here>." It's a slippery slope when you start hoping your team losses when **** gets tough. When things go wrong during the season, all the sudden you start justifying those losses more and more, particularly when we're out of it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Gibbs took over a 4-12 team and that got him my favorite birthday gift of all-time: Away Taylor 21 jersey. To me, all of the losses from 2000 to 2003 were fine once Sean Taylor caught that ball in the first play of his first game at the Hall of Fame game. It was incredible, and that career does not happen if we were not 4-12 at that point. I'm sure that none of us were complaining about the abysmal 2004 season and how Sean, man, he just lit up everyone. Went on to feud with Owens as an Eagle and as a Cowboy. Sean was also a Cowboy killer and made the best play in the past ten years of our organization when he returned that blocked kick. Again, that doesn't happen without that 4-12 record.

They were 5-11...not 4-12.

So apparently having some extra "meaningless" wins by Spurrier at the end of the season didn't deter us one iota from being able to draft Sean Taylor. Apparently it DOES happen without a 4-12 record.

The "meaningless" wins at the end of the 2004 season didn't keep us from being able to draft Aaron Rodgers. Unfortunately, we drafted Carlos Rogers instead.

[#98QBKiller]

I am glad that win over the Jaguars in December last year helped create a "culture of winning" A real turning point for the career of Kevin Barnes making getting that INT in OT

Still not afraid to say I'd rather have lost the Seahawks and Giants games. The first loss to the Iggles killed me after our 3-1 start

I'm not gonna lie, I rooted for us every single Sunday but when we were out of playoff contention I honestly didn't get bothered when we did lose knowing that the losses improved our draft positioning. And I think a lot of people are overreacting to that sentiment.

[Boston Skins]

I'm not gonna lie, I rooted for us every single Sunday but when we were out of playoff contention I honestly didn't get bothered when we did lose knowing that the losses improved our draft positioning. And I think a lot of people are overreacting to that sentiment.

This is exactly the way I felt. I didn't enjoy that feeling, either.