Homer: When it comes to swagger, in Rex they trust

[Rocky21]

Great story as usual Murph.

What really bothers me the most about the Shanahans is their inability to tell a good one from a bad one.

[CremeBrunell]

I like Rex. I liked him starting this year and I still like him now. He by far gives us the best chance to win. It's a shame he turns the ball over so much, because if he could bring the TO's down, he would be a very good QB. I mean, you have to consider what he's working with on offense as well, with the recievers and o-line. These ARE contributing factors and with a better supporting cast, I'm sure his play would improve as well. I also think if he would've played every game this year, we could possibly be fighting for the division title down the stretch, (that and a better kicker).

Either way, I'm not saying he's the QB of the future for the skins, but I think we have at least found our "bridge guy" that Donovan was supposed to be until we draft a QB and he's ready to play.

I hope he can be that guy too. I'm not doubt a Rex fan. I've seen something with him that I haven't seen for years with a Redskins QB... and exciting offense. Sure he turns the ball over and makes stupid plays, but he moves the ball pretty well too!

My question Murph is would you be against him starting next year while our rookie QB sits on the bench for a while? I know the Skins fanbase, or at least on this board, would be all about throwing a rookie right in to the lineup... but if our team is close right now would a full year of Grossman really be a terrible thing?

[Destino]

The only thing Rex Grossman does consistently is turn the ball over twice per game. Other than that you don't know if you are getting the Week 1, 11, 12 Rex or the Week 4, 6, 10 Rex. He is clearly better than John Beck but he is not a starting QB in the NFL.

[pjfootballer]

He has to remind alot of us old timers of Joe Theismann:

1) Not great, but can work within the system

2) Shorter and smaller than he is listed

3) ****y, has a confidence about his abilities

4) Players love him and back him

5) Can throw 3 beautiful TD passes one week and then throw 3 god awful INTs the next

6) Leader

[moondog]

My question Murph is would you be against him starting next year while our rookie QB sits on the bench for a while? I know the Skins fanbase, or at least on this board, would be all about throwing a rookie right in to the lineup... but if our team is close right now would a full year of Grossman really be a terrible thing?

That's one thing that this fan base may need to wrap their head around. If Grossman hadn't missed three starts this year and we'd just split the Dallas games, we'd be in the hunt. We're not that far off despite the injuries and three games with Beck. I, for one, would not be against it. Some guys are ready and others are not. But I think a rookie could learn a lot from Grossman's thick-skin and knowledge of the offense before getting thrown out there.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 02:27 PM ----------

He has to remind alot of us old timers of Joe Theismann:

4) Players love him and back him

6) Leader

Personally, these two are HUGE to me. He is not the most gifted talent-wise or in height, but the guy is about everything else you look for in a leader. Players feed off him, both offensive and ultimately defensive guys when our offense is clicking. Santana's quotes, on top of everyone else's really seals the deal for how this team feels about him and it's the main reason I can't stop backing Grossman.

[Bat~man]

You guys can defend him as much as you want, but, Rex is the type of QB that would handcuff us. He would give us just enough wins to not get a good draft spot, he may make you want to keep giving him "another try".

You're also blind or completely ignorant to football if you think Rex is gonna take us to where we wanna go. You think every coach or anyone who knows football preaches about not turning the ball over because they're crazy?

Rex is 4-4 , he beat a crappy Seattle, Arizone and St. Louis team, a banged up Giants team that isn't as good as they normally are anyway, and you guys are seriously using that stat to defend him? I'll use this stat, 10 Tds and 14 INTs, not counting fumbles or the numerous passes that SHOULD have been INTs. Combine that with the fact that 3 of his 4 wins came against teams with barely any wins and it isn't hard to see. He is a good backup QB and nothing more.. just stop. In 8 games started, 6 of them he has thrown as many or more INTs than he has TDs, again not counting fumbles.

Don't get me wrong Murf, I love your stuff, but if you think my negativity is misguided when it comes to Rex and your gonna base it on being 4-4, then you're just being silly. If you're asking me would I take Rex over Beck, then yes.. but neither one of those guys are gonna take us anywhere...not even above .500.

[moondog]

You guys can defend him as much as you want, but, Rex is the type of QB that would handcuff us. He would give us just enough wins to not get a good draft spot, he may make you want to keep giving him "another try".

You're also blind or completely ignorant to football if you think Rex is gonna take us to where we wanna go. You think every coach or anyone who knows football preaches about not turning the ball over because they're crazy?

Rex is 4-4 , he beat a crappy Seattle, Arizone and St. Louis team, a banged up Giants team that isn't as good as they normally are anyway, and you guys are seriously using that stat to defend him? I'll use this stat, 10 Tds and 14 INTs, not counting fumbles or the numerous passes that SHOULD have been INTs. Combine that with the fact that 3 of his 4 wins came against teams with barely any wins and it isn't hard to see. He is a good backup QB and nothing more.. just stop.

You're missing the point. Almost every supporter of Rex openly admits he's not the long term answer and is not going to win a superbowl for us or anything of that nature. The point being made is that with THIS team, he has enough talent and support (both talent around him and trust from teammates) to keep us in the hunt for a division title over a 16 game season. Nothing more or less. We all agree that we need "THE" guy as soon as possible. But for now, Rex is fun to watch and difficult not to root for and he is certainly a guy I hope we re-sign because if we do get "THE" guy next offseason, Rex is the perfect quarterback to keep us in contention until the new guy is ready to play.

And for what it is worth, Seattle has won 3 of it's last 4, including Baltimore, Marshawn Lynch is an animal and their defense is pretty good. Lynch ran for over 100 yards and a score against Baltimore. That was when Ray Lewis was still playing. That simply does not happen very often.

[Skinsinparadise]

Rex has played well the last 2 games, I recall reading last weeks game statistically is close to his career best. I'd love it if that game is the template for Rex from now and forever, somehow I doubt it, but hope I am wrong. Rex is usually a 50-55% completiton guy, not a 70% plus guy like last week. He's usually has a low 70s QB rating or worse this year, not mid 90s like last week. If Rex is now a 70 plus completion guy, and Bradyish with an almost 100 Qb rating -- yeah anyone challenging Rex's prowess will look foolish. But I am not ready to jump on that train until we see some more of this.

And I get Murf is saying the same. But here is where I depart big time. Where this goes off track IMO is the part about the whole Shanny was dumb to bench Rex. Seems revisionist and IMO doesn't match the actual facts. By most accounts Rex played poorly THREE games in a row, not just the Philly game. His QB rating was what like 45 against the Rams? And unless the people who cover the Redskins were misled by the team, Rex couldn't have played 2 of the three games he was sitting out regardless because of his pneumonia. Rex was so sick he couldn't even sit on the sideline during the Carolina game, but we should believe he would have felt good enough to start the game? I have had pneumonia, it totally saps you. Its tough to walk around your house, never mind flinging a football around with defensive ends bearing down on you. The dude was in the hospital the week after. So we are talking did Shanny change the outlook of the season by sitting Rex against SF?

As to training camp, there are dissenting opinions. I recall reading Keim's reports during training camp who thought that BOTH Rex and Beck struggled with accuracy and were inconsistent during training camp and he thought neither one of them separated himself in the training camp portion -- doesn't mean Keim is right but I recall his point of view was different. Also, Keim among other people covering the team did want to see Beck and thought is was time to bench Rex when it happened. Yeah if Rex played like he did against Seattle in game after game, and had one rare bad game against the Eagles than I can see an outcry. But the reality was Rex led the league in interceptions and had the lowest QB rating in the league and was arguably regressing with each game.

I've been tough on Rex. But I think he's played great the last 2 weeks. And nope the Rex who was benched against the Eagles wasn't playing like he is right now. do I think the jury is out, nope. Be interesting to watch though.

Edit: by revisionist, am not saying Murf is being revisionist, I recall his article where he quoted Santana at the time -- but from my observation the local or national media at the time didn't question the move, most saying it was about time -- the context of the benching wasn't Rex's career day play against Seattle but MULTIPLE games of bad Rex in a row.

[Bat~man]

You're missing the point. Almost every supporter of Rex openly admits he's not the long term answer and is not going to win a superbowl for us or anything of that nature. The point being made is that with THIS team, he has enough talent and support (both talent around him and trust from teammates) to keep us in the hunt for a division title over a 16 game season.

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

[skins island connection]

I thought this was another "capture this image".

Rex; damn, Monty, what in the hell did YOU have for lunch!

[BleedBNG]

Good or bad, it doesn't matter. After all, who else do we have? Beck? Like I said... who else do we have?

[Hooper]

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

You're right. We don't have any skill players that scare anyone.

Like or hate Rex, he is not working with great weapons around him.

I thought he pretty much put the team on his back against Dallas. We had no running game and his number one receiver was Gaffney. And he was SHREDDING them. Disagree? Go look at a Cowboys message board during that game. A lot of "when did Rex become Brady" comments.

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.

[Skinsinparadise]

we have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie QB would do better than Rex did this year, they are mistaken.

IMO it depends on what rookie and what version of Rex. The version against Seattle would be tough to beat. The version against the Cowboys the first time they played, the Rams game, and Philly -- yeah depending on the rookie we potentially could do better. Though just like seeing Hankerson and Helu and the young guys develop by gaining experience -- a young QB would likely benefit from experience too regardless if it sets us back temporarily.

[Bat~man]

You're right. We don't have any skill players that scare anyone.

Like or hate Rex, he is not working with great weapons around him.

I thought he pretty much put the team on his back against Dallas. We had no running game and his number one receiver was Gaffney. And he was SHREDDING them. Disagree? Go look at a Cowboys message board during that game. A lot of "when did Rex become Brady" comments.

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.

Rex played well against Dallas. He also helped them with a bad INT and by thinking he was Vick and running in OT, losing a yard or 2 on an already long FG attempt, which we missed. (seriously dis-like gano)

Besides, look at what THIS board says about our team during games, it doesn't surprise me at all that Dallas fans were tripping.

I like Rex, I just highly disagree that we are going to stay in the mix with him. I didn't say anything about replacing him with anyone right now..our entire roster sucks at the QB position.

[Hooper]

IMO it depends on what rookie and what version of Rex. The version against Seattle would be tough to beat. The version against the Cowboys the first time they played, the Rams game, and Philly -- yeah depending on the rookie we potentially could do better. Though just like seeing Hankerson and Helu and the young guys develop by gaining experience -- a young QB would likely benefit from experience too regardless if it sets us back temporarily.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no problem with a rook staring next year. I just think people don't realize how little Rex had to work with at times this year. Same goes for Beck, a guy who probably wouldn't have done much in great conditions -- not wired right IMO -- but was doomed to fail in the ones he faced.

[Bat~man]

Don't get me wrong -- I have no problem with a rook staring next year. I just think people don't realize how little Rex had to work with at times this year. Same goes for Beck, a guy who probably wouldn't have done much in great conditions -- not wired right IMO -- but was doomed to fail in the ones he faced.

I do agree with you as far as little talent on offense.

BUT.. Rex is known for his bad INTs, and he has proven it this year over and over with INTs, bad INTs at that. If this team was full of talent.. I still think he would throw a lot of picks because he would be over confident in his WRs..,,but that's me speculating on that part.

I would love to have a rookie next year, and if our o-line and WR core isn't vastly improved..I would rather start Rex again for at least 6 games rather than get this rookie killed right off the bat.

[Hooper]

I do agree with you as far as little talent on offense.

BUT.. Rex is known for his bad INTs, and he has proven it this year over and over with INTs, bad INTs at that. If this team was full of talent.. I still think he would throw a lot of picks because he would be over confident in his WRs..,,but that's me speculating on that part.

I would love to have a rookie next year, and if our o-line and WR core isn't vastly improved..I would rather start Rex again for at least 6 games rather than get this rookie killed right off the bat.

Agree 100 percent.

[moondog]

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

He was damn near perfect against the Giants. He had us ahead in both games against Dallas - the defense (specifically DHall) and Gano blew both of those games. You don't have to have top 10 talent in statistics. We have a much more balanced offense. Despite everything that has happened this year offensively, if Gaffney and Davis just continue their average games, both will be near to over 1,000 yards receiving. Moss needs 150 yards in 5 games to reach 500 yards this year. You do not need an Andre Johnson to win games. Davis and Gaffney have been consistent downfield threats all year (with Grossman at QB). I'm not talking 40 yarders, I mean in the 15-25 yard range which are great chunks of yards. Santana Moss has transitioned into a clutch, move the chains type of receiver. And Helu is averaging 150 yards from scrimmage in his two starts.

Those are the healthy guys. Bring back a healthy Hightower and Hankerson next year, along with an upgrade or two on the O-line and yes, this offense can be damn good with Grossman while a rookie gets up to speed.

Our defense is excellent and they will be getting a healthy Jarvis Jenkins back next year, along with whatever other offseason acquisitions we may make. They've had some poor plays this year (such as the Dallas games) but overall it is an excellent group.

Ultimately, our already excellent defense is going to get better, and our offense has balanced talent throughout (though no superstars) that is good enough to contend for the division given our defense, especially when you factor in 8 draft picks (whatever we choose to do with them) and another offseason.

Let me name several top 5 players in different categories to show that you don't NEED top 5 players to contend for the division (and again, I'm talking in terms of next year and ONLY contending for a division title on our way to becoming a team built to contend for deep playoffs and superbowl perhaps in 2013):

Passing Yards: Eli Manning & Philip Rivers (#'s 4 & 5)

Rushing Yards: LeSean McCoy, Maurice Jones-Drew (#'s 1 & 2 respectively) and Fred Jackson (#5)

Receiving Yards: Steve Smith (#2) & Victor Cruz (#4)

Sacks: Jared Allen (#2), Jason Babin (#3) & Jason Pierre-Paul (#5)

Interceptions: Eric Weddle (#4) & Brandon Browner (#5)

[Bat~man]

He was damn near perfect against the Giants. He had us ahead in both games against Dallas - the defense (specifically DHall) and Gano blew both of those games. You don't have to have top 10 talent in statistics. We have a much more balanced offense. Despite everything that has happened this year offensively, if Gaffney and Davis just continue their average games, both will be near to over 1,000 yards receiving. Moss needs 150 yards in 5 games to reach 500 yards this year. You do not need an Andre Johnson to win games. Davis and Gaffney have been consistent downfield threats all year (with Grossman at QB). I'm not talking 40 yarders, I mean in the 15-25 yard range which are great chunks of yards. Santana Moss has transitioned into a clutch, move the chains type of receiver. And Helu is averaging 150 yards from scrimmage in his two starts.

Those are the healthy guys. Bring back a healthy Hightower and Hankerson next year, along with an upgrade or two on the O-line and yes, this offense can be damn good with Grossman while a rookie gets up to speed.

Our defense is excellent and they will be getting a healthy Jarvis Jenkins back next year, along with whatever other offseason acquisitions we may make. They've had some poor plays this year (such as the Dallas games) but overall it is an excellent group.

Ultimately, our already excellent defense is going to get better, and our offense has balanced talent throughout (though no superstars) that is good enough to contend for the division given our defense, especially when you factor in 8 draft picks (whatever we choose to do with them) and another offseason.

Let me name several top 5 players in different categories to show that you don't NEED top 5 players to contend for the division (and again, I'm talking in terms of next year and ONLY contending for a division title on our way to becoming a team built to contend for deep playoffs and superbowl perhaps in 2013):

Passing Yards: Eli Manning & Philip Rivers (#'s 4 & 5)

Rushing Yards: LeSean McCoy, Maurice Jones-Drew (#'s 1 & 2 respectively) and Fred Jackson (#5)

Receiving Yards: Steve Smith (#2) & Victor Cruz (#4)

Sacks: Jared Allen (#2), Jason Babin (#3) & Jason Pierre-Paul (#5)

Interceptions: Eric Weddle (#4) & Brandon Browner (#5)

He was damn near perfect against the Giants, then he followed it up by having 6 turnovers the next 3 games. That's 2 a game...that's bad no matter how you slice it. He damn near gave the game back to the Rams.

The only reason why I asked about top 5 players is because you were talking about our "talent' on offense. What determines talent other than statistics? If we aren't top 5 anywhere in talent then we obviously have to compete because of our excellent scheme, not talent.

Besides, you listed several players in your top 5 that play for teams that already beat us...we did beat the Giants and that was our best win all year, and they aren't that good.

I'm really not sure what we are debating anymore tho. Some people think this years team with Rex will be in the playoff hunt, some people don't. I'm one that doesn't think so based on his divisional record and turnovers. He is still a good guy to have around as a backup or to fill in while a rookie QB gets ready.

[moondog]

He was damn near perfect against the Giants, then he followed it up by having 6 turnovers the next 3 games. That's 2 a game...that's bad no matter how you slice it. He damn near gave the game back to the Rams.

The only reason why I asked about top 5 players is because you were talking about our "talent' on offense. What determines talent other than statistics? If we aren't top 5 anywhere in talent then we obviously have to compete because of our excellent scheme, not talent.

Besides, you listed several players in your top 5 that play for teams that already beat us...we did beat the Giants and that was our best win all year, and they aren't that good.

I'm really not sure what we are debating anymore tho. Some people think this years team with Rex will be in the playoff hunt, some people don't. I'm one that doesn't think so based on his divisional record and turnovers. He is still a good guy to have around as a backup or to fill in while a rookie QB gets ready.

Ultimately, I think we both agree on Rex. You've said pretty much what I have in terms of he's not the long term solution but we'd both like to see us re-sign him and wouldn't mind seeing him play next year til whoever we acquire is ready. We simply disagree on where this team can get with him at QB.

The difference in terms of what we're looking at as offensive talent is I felt like you were looking at individual talent. My point is that you don't need a top 5 individual at WR or RB. The guys I listed are all top 5 in their respective categories yet they are on teams with poor records or in the Giants case they are plummeting fast. My point is that you do not need a top 5 individual talent. It can be done with above average talent across the board. Gaffney and Moss are solid receivers, Davis is a Pro-Bowl lock if our offense scored more (aka more TD's for him), and Helu is a dual-threat RB. Are any of these guys elite? Davis may be on his way, but the point is that our offense lacks superstars but is also solid across the board. Add Hightower and Hankerson back in the mix as well as some additions in the offseason to the O-line, bring Jarvis Jenkins back to the defense, and I think with that group Grossman can keep us in the mix for the division title over the course of next season, or at least until he was supplanted by a hopefully deserving rookie.

[Bat~man]

Ultimately, I think we both agree on Rex. You've said pretty much what I have in terms of he's not the long term solution but we'd both like to see us re-sign him and wouldn't mind seeing him play next year til whoever we acquire is ready. We simply disagree on where this team can get with him at QB.

The difference in terms of what we're looking at as offensive talent is I felt like you were looking at individual talent. My point is that you don't need a top 5 individual at WR or RB. The guys I listed are all top 5 in their respective categories yet they are on teams with poor records or in the Giants case they are plummeting fast. My point is that you do not need a top 5 individual talent. It can be done with above average talent across the board. Gaffney and Moss are solid receivers, Davis is a Pro-Bowl lock if our offense scored more (aka more TD's for him), and Helu is a dual-threat RB. Are any of these guys elite? Davis may be on his way, but the point is that our offense lacks superstars but is also solid across the board. Add Hightower and Hankerson back in the mix as well as some additions in the offseason to the O-line, bring Jarvis Jenkins back to the defense, and I think with that group Grossman can keep us in the mix for the division title over the course of next season, or at least until he was supplanted by a hopefully deserving rookie.

I do disagree about this team offensively. Hankerson looks very promising, I love that kid. Helu also looks promising..but we need more. The teams that are really competing have serious talent..I'm not sure what teams are doing it with average talent 'across the board".

You can be in the mix with solid talent and excellent QB play, but not really a threat. You don't need top 5 talent in every spot, you just need more talent than what we currently have...otherwise we would have more wins.

**Edit** Can I say the word talent any more than I did in this post? I apologize for being redundant.

[darrelgreenie]

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.

Why? You don't think a rookie or FA QB could perform better then 25th in total QBR or 28th DVOA? Both are stats/metrics that try to evaluate the QB apart from the team around them.

Because there are certainly FA and rookie QBs that are above 25th in QBR and 28th in DVOA.

[JerseyGator]

Newsflash: Redskins 3rd in QB hits behind Rams and Seahawks. Who will be the Redskins' starter at RB this week? I love how people say so and so is not the long-term answer on offense when long-term this season equates to a matter of weeks given all of the injuries and personnel decisions.

What does long-term mean? One month.

[Crazy Levi]

Enough with the "swagger" thing. I don't really understand what it means.

Unless "swagger" is code word for "underthrow into triple coverage."

[steve09ru]

What I found pretty interesting was that, with Rex (going back to last season), we average 21 points a game. He can put points up but he can also cost us points as we have seen.

If we can get a QB that can limit those mistakes, we are only a mistake away from 24+ ppg as an offense...we're really not that far off from where everyone seems to think we are offensively.

**forget to include that the 21 ppg is right in the middle of the pack NFL wise