No whining about the fact we won please!

[DiscoBob]

So.....everyone still happy that we won those pointless games now that we are getting raked over the coals for the #2 pick....

[SuperBash]

feels damn good to knock the gnats out of the playoffs ( pretty much). That was the most dominate I've seen this team play in a LOOOONG time. Way to go skins!

This is pretty funny

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So.....everyone still happy that we won those pointless games now that we are getting raked over the coals for the #2 pick....

I'm fine with it. If RGIII pans out, giving up picks in drafts following his first 2 years will feel like nothing.

[DaRock]

So.....everyone still happy that we won those pointless games now that we are getting raked over the coals for the #2 pick....

I don't know what's worse. You complaining about trading up to get a QB or you resurrecting this thread.

[elkabong82]

So.....everyone still happy that we won those pointless games now that we are getting raked over the coals for the #2 pick....

we still wouldn't have picked 2nd and still would have had to give up the picks we did to beat Cleveland's offer

and who's to say that if we had finished with a worse record that the team then wouldn't feel we were further off, valued the picks we had even more, and not made the trade at all?

we won today, you should be happy

[ThE B MaN]

We've yet to see whether or not we "won". The guy hasn't even played a snap yet in the NFL. RG3 will have to turn out to be a GOD to justify what we're giving up for him. This is an insanely big gamble no matter how you look at it.

[Eddie Cunningham]

I agree. Now that it is done, let's hope RG3 is worth the hype and lasts several good years. At this point, the only way we don't get RG3 is if the Colts decide he's the better quarterback and draft him instead of Andrew Luck.

[Burgold]

Yeah, I'm glad we won. Having won means our defense was better, that even with Rex Grossman as captain our o-line got stronger with Hurt and Smith emerging. It means that at least 6 interceptions could be converted to easy tds. A QB can't do it without a team around them. Look at Marino. Look at Elway. Look at Peyton's dad.

The fact that our pups were emerging, that Kyle's system seemed effective, that the defense with huge holes at safety and minor ones at corner was really picking it up is a good thing. Having discovered players in Perry, Kerrigan, Gomes (maybe) and others is nothing but a good thing.

I'm wary of the trade price too. This could be the Herschel Walker deal that makes the Rams a dominant team for a decade and left the Vikings looking like suckers... but it could go the other way too. That's the thing about sports. It's better to win and it's okay to sometimes throw the Hail Mary.

This trade wasn't quite a Hail Mary, but it is pretty close.

[DiscoBob]

I don't know what's worse. You complaining about trading up to get a QB or you resurrecting this thread.

I'm not complaining about trading up to get RGIII, I think it was the right move....I just hate what we are giving up to do it. I'd just like to see all the people are who claimed that you should never root for your team to lose, and that a franchise QBs are a crap shoot....do you still think those pointless wins were worth it?

People were saying over and over that you just win during the season and don't worry about draft position because people find franchise QBs outside of the top 10 picks....so now those two "extra" wins that we got last year end up costing us 2x #1's and a #2.....

[Tay]

I'm glad we put out 100 percent effort. At the end of the day our players developed and we still got our QB!

[Mad Mike]

I'm not complaining about trading up to get RGIII, I think it was the right move....I just hate what we are giving up to do it. I'd just like to see all the people are who claimed that you should never root for your team to lose, and that a franchise QBs are a crap shoot....do you still think those pointless wins were worth it?

No win is pointless. Winning and losing are habits. If you want to win those tough games in the fourth quarter, you have to expect to win. You cant learn that habit by losing.

[Jumbo]

I'm not complaining about trading up to get RGIII, I think it was the right move....I just hate what we are giving up to do it. I'd just like to see all the people are who claimed that you should never root for your team to lose, and that a franchise QBs are a crap shoot....do you still think those pointless wins were worth it?

Wins are what you play for, no matter what your drafting circumstance. Fans can be/do/think whatever they want and still call themselves fans, obviously. But in reality, most of us have all kinds of grades and types of fans we'd describe---from "bad"to "good" to"weak"to "casual" to "bandwagon" to "dedicated" to"crazy"to "stupid" and on and on. Yet when someone wants to defend a questionable stance that reflects something about what kind/type of fan they appear to be on a matter, they often act like this is the one thing in the universe not open to evaluation and play the "who are you to tell me what a real fan is?"

Well, people can justifiably and logically opine on the qualities of a person's fanhood (like Huly & Pez being exceptional fans) just as with anything else.

To me, fans who actively root for a loss to get for a higher draft position are being sad and lame. When it gets to the point of giving **** to people who are cheering for a win regardless of the draft position consequences, they're being a total suck ass as a fan. When they go on and on whining about pointless wins they are being a total suck ass as a fan. When they keep whining about how wins "cost" us they are being a total suck ass as a fan. That's my view,and of course it's with an understanding of what they "mean" and I even have often added that there is a way to have that conversation and have those feelings and express it all in a way that doesn't makes you look like a total suck ass to a real fan like me.

As for the board policy, btw, some people did get temp banned at a certain point for the same posting behaviors we'd ban members who are fans of rival teams for doing (essentially trolling) and it would have been even less tolerated this next season---even if we were playing the year with Grossman at the helm. Fortunately, we won't aren't likely to have such issues next season.

[Brotherz]

Yeah, I'm glad we won. Having won means our defense was better, that even with Rex Grossman as captain our o-line got stronger with Hurt and Smith emerging. It means that at least 6 interceptions could be converted to easy tds. A QB can't do it without a team around them. Look at Marino. Look at Elway. Look at Peyton's dad.

The fact that our pups were emerging, that Kyle's system seemed effective, that the defense with huge holes at safety and minor ones at corner was really picking it up is a good thing. Having discovered players in Perry, Kerrigan, Gomes (maybe) and others is nothing but a good thing.

I'm wary of the trade price too. This could be the Herschel Walker deal that makes the Rams a dominant team for a decade and left the Vikings looking like suckers... but it could go the other way too. That's the thing about sports. It's better to win and it's okay to sometimes throw the Hail Mary.

This trade wasn't quite a Hail Mary, but it is pretty close.

I'm really surprised to see the responses on here like this. I definitely AM NOT surprised to see the haters all over the country jumping in with the "same old skins" crap but here on this board, I gotta say I am a bit surprised. I just don't see how this is a bad move or even a "hail mary".

First of all, we gave up three picks. Yes, they were high picks. But they are three picks. We still have 6 picks this year and last yar we demonstrated that the years of only being able to count on the first rounder panning out is over. We have 7 picks I believe in each of the next two years drafts. We lost one pick in each of the next draft. Yes, its a good pick but so what. We will live. We will get to 2015 and have first round picks again.

In the mean-time we have almost 50 million in cap space to pursue free agents. This was a 5 year plan and we are entering year three of 5. The next three years, we will have RG3 at the helm. We could win a Sueprbowl in the next three years. Legitimately. Think about that. That's not even mentioning that this kid could be our face of the franchize for the next decade or more.

Its a lot I suppose but a "hail mary"? Its a smart decision that looks like it was welll thought out and in the works for two years. They handled the cap in year one and turned over the roster.

in year two they stockpiled draft picks, made smart free agent signings, and filled alot of holes on ou team. This year they use the cap space they freed for a playmaking WR and probably a safety and a guard. They draft an absolute phenom in RG3, a natural leader, ridiculously intelligent with incredile character and off the chart athleticism.

Hail mary? Really?

P.S. I respect you Burgold but Herschel Walker was a veteran running back, not a 20 year old phenom QUARTERBACK. Its not even remotely analagous. Its not RIcky Williams either. Its just not. A QB is DIFFERENT.

[DaRock]

I'm not complaining about trading up to get RGIII, I think it was the right move....I just hate what we are giving up to do it. I'd just like to see all the people are who claimed that you should never root for your team to lose, and that a franchise QBs are a crap shoot....do you still think those pointless wins were worth it?

People were saying over and over that you just win during the season and don't worry about draft position because people find franchise QBs outside of the top 10 picks....so now those two "extra" wins that we got last year end up costing us 2x #1's and a #2.....

You do understand that if every team under .500 3/4 of the way in the season lost on purpose, that the league would become totally unbalanced, unfair and pathetic We all know that if we would of lost, it would have got us a better draft pick, but if we won, we won. There is nothing anyone, nor the Redskins can do, besides losing on purpose. The wins were "pointless," if that's what wins are called these days, but like said, there is nothing that can be done about it. Take the Vikings, they won their last game or something if I remember, and they would of been in the #2 spot if they would of lost getting all our picks. Yes, you just win during the season and don't worry about draft position.

[HailGreen28]

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE WON! WE WON!

THE GOOD OLD DAYS ARE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111

WE WON!

.

.

.

.

.

.

(It's not about whether you win, it's HOW you win. rg3 better be a GOAT)

[Burgold]

I'm really surprised to see the responses on here like this. I definitely AM NOT surprised to see the haters all over the country jumping in with the "same old skins" crap but here on this board, I gotta say I am a bit surprised. I just don't see how this is a bad move or even a "hail mary".

I'm not saying it's a bad move, but in my book it's certainly a "hail Mary" or closed to it. After all, we're using 4 high draft picks to get one guy. That's a really bold, high risk play. If it works... we're more than happy. If he busts...

Now, from everything I've read and seen RGIII has a fairly low probability to bust. He's very athletic, he's poised, he's dilligent, and he's smart. These are all great qualities. Still, without question the trade is a very ballsy move.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:20 AM ----------

One more quality I forgot. He raised a team like Baylor which wasn't a winning program and helped to make them winners. All these things bode well, but they are certainly pushing a lot of their chips into the middle of the table. Maybe not all, but a lot.

[Brotherz]

I'm not saying it's a bad move, but in my book it's certainly a "hail Mary" or closed to it. After all, we're using 4 high draft picks to get one guy. That's a really bold, high risk play. If it works... we're more than happy. If he busts...

Now, from everything I've read and seen RGIII has a fairly low probability to bust. He's very athletic, he's poised, he's dilligent, and he's smart. These are all great qualities. Still, without question the trade is a very ballsy move.

Cmon Burgold,, you're better than that. You know it is intellectually dishonest to suggest we used FOUR high picks to get one guy. I know it sounds better when making the argument that we spent too much but we were using #6 overall to get one guy regardless. The swap of #6 for # 2 by its very definition is a win for us. If that's all we did obviously St. Louis should be sued for malpractice. We gave up three picks - good ones. High picks that should have resulted in good players to move up four spots to draft who we believe is a franchize Qb for the next ten years. That is the situation. These mediots talkign about the 3 number 1's we gave up are ridiculous. Its simply factually inaccurate.

More to the point, let's not assume that our #1 next year and the year after will be as valuable as the #1 we had this year. If we land a true #1 WR like Vjax, add RG3, maybe some free agency secondary help, do you really think we do worse than last year? Is there ANY legitimate basis for that argument? So next year's #1 cuold be a mid first rounder. 15th possibly- something in that range. How about the year after that? Is it possible, if not probably based on what you are seeing with this team that that pick could be in the 20's by 2014?

Not only that, when were we getting the QB and how were we doing it? We won 5 games this year with Rex freakin grossman. We would have won closer to 7 if we didn't do the Beck games. You think it was going to be easier to trade up next year? When were we getting the guy? How were we doing it? We were NEVER getting the #1 overall. We just weren't. We are improving believe it or not.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:25 AM ----------

I'm not saying it's a bad move, but in my book it's certainly a "hail Mary" or closed to it. After all, we're using 4 high draft picks to get one guy. That's a really bold, high risk play. If it works... we're more than happy. If he busts...

Now, from everything I've read and seen RGIII has a fairly low probability to bust. He's very athletic, he's poised, he's dilligent, and he's smart. These are all great qualities. Still, without question the trade is a very ballsy move.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:20 AM ----------

One more quality I forgot. He raised a team like Baylor which wasn't a winning program and helped to make them winners. All these things bode well, but they are certainly pushing a lot of their chips into the middle of the table. Maybe not all, but a lot.

Yea, look I agree its not cheap. I agree it was a gusty move. I agree there is risk in it too. I just don't think it was a desperate move or one that was indicative of the 'same old skins' etc. In fairness I am picking in your posts but in reality its the media and some other posters in here that are getting under my skin. i think we basically see this the same way. It cost a lot and is likely going to be prove to be worth it but there is always risk of it going bad and if it did it would be profoundly bad for this franchise. But all of this 'same old skins", ricky williams, herschel walker etc etc is just too much. Its nothing like that.

[Rocky52Mc]

I'm not complaining about trading up to get RGIII, I think it was the right move....I just hate what we are giving up to do it. I'd just like to see all the people are who claimed that you should never root for your team to lose, and that a franchise QBs are a crap shoot....do you still think those pointless wins were worth it?

People were saying over and over that you just win during the season and don't worry about draft position because people find franchise QBs outside of the top 10 picks....so now those two "extra" wins that we got last year end up costing us 2x #1's and a #2.....

It is their job to play football on Sunday, not constantly view their draft position. Job performance is the only thing that's going to keep you a job in this league, which is exactly why Shanahan did this. If Shanahan fails on this trade, do you think it's going to hurt his Redskins draft choices in 2014...NO, because he won't be the coach. Look at this trade and the wins you speak about from every single angle. I would hate to have a coach who blew "GAMES" in the season to try and gain a draft advantage.

[Burgold]

Nah, I don't think it's dishonest at all. It's completely accurate.

Whoever we pick with number two we are using four picks to get him. The first from this year, the second from this year, the first from next year, and the first from the year after that. Unless I misread the trade. That's four picks.

Will it be worth it? I hope so.

I also think that both the Herschel and Eli Manning trades are apt. The Herschel one was even less of a risk because the Vikings knew that Walker could be a great pro already. Manning is apt because the Giants traded the farm for a qb and it looks like it was a great deal.

Which way will this one go? Fingers crossed.

[bowhunter]

Cmon Burgold,, you're better than that. You know it is intellectually dishonest to suggest we used FOUR high picks to get one guy..

Actually, he did cost us FOUR picks, allow me to explain.

If RG3 was a Free agent, he would cost us Zero picks

If RG3 is drafted he costs us ONE pick. So in terms of this trade, he cost us 2012 #1, 2012 #2, 2013 #1, 2014 #1 that is a total of four picks.

[techboy]

I

People were saying over and over that you just win during the season and don't worry about draft position because people find franchise QBs outside of the top 10 picks....so now those two "extra" wins that we got last year end up costing us 2x #1's and a #2.....

Here's the thing... I was one of those fans that was at best conflicted last year over the late season wins. I would have been very happy to have them lose out. It sort of ruined several games for me, actually.

However, as it turns out, those wins likely didn't cost anything at all. Nobody was rooting for losses when the Redskins were 3-1 and in first place, and having beaten the Rams at that point, even if they had lost out they would have picked no better than #3. There were apparently multiple teams offering 3 #1s, so it would have taken that much, roughly, even from a better spot. I doubt the wins cost the team much, if anything at all.

The Vikings, on the other hand, got screwed.

[DiscoBob]

Wins are what you play for, no matter what your drafting circumstance. Fans can be/do/think whatever they want and still call themselves fans, obviously. But in reality, most of us have all kinds of grades and types of fans we'd describe---from "bad"to "good" to"weak"to "casual" to "bandwagon" to "dedicated" to"crazy"to "stupid" and on and on. Yet when someone wants to defend a questionable stance that reflects something about what kind/type of fan they appear to be on a matter, they often act like this is the one thing in the universe not open to evaluation and play the "who are you to tell me what a real fan is?"

Well, people can justifiably and logically opine on the qualities of a person's fanhood (like Huly & Pez being exceptional fans) just as with anything else.

To me, fans who actively root for a loss to get for a higher draft position are being sad and lame. When it gets to the point of giving **** to people who are cheering for a win regardless of the draft position consequences, they're being a total suck ass as a fan. When they go on and on whining about pointless wins they are being a total suck ass as a fan. When they keep whining about how wins "cost" us they are being a total suck ass as a fan. That's my view,and of course it's with an understanding of what they "mean" and I even have often added that there is a way to have that conversation and have those feelings and express it all in a way that doesn't makes you look like a total suck ass to a real fan like me.

As for the board policy, btw, some people did get temp banned at a certain point for the same posting behaviors we'd ban members who are fans of rival teams for doing (essentially trolling) and it would have been even less tolerated this next season---even if we were playing the year with Grossman at the helm. Fortunately, we won't aren't likely to have such issues next season.

I didn't call out anyone as a poor fan, or anyone out specifically. Wasn't trying to troll either....There was a lot of conversation on the board about whether or not losing for better draft position was something to root for (not necessarily for the team to throw games). For the people who were adamantly against it, yesterdays trade illustrates the reason why some people thought it was worth rooting against the team. I've been a fan for 30 years, and I thought it was in the best interest of the team, players, and fans for the skins to lose games last year. I'm glad they made the trade, but how much better would it have been to have had the pick to get RGIII and been able to keep the other picks?

[Jumbo]

I didn't call out anyone as a poor fan, or anyone out specifically. Wasn't trying to troll either....There was a lot of conversation on the board about whether or not losing for better draft position was something to root for (not necessarily for the team to throw games). For the people who were adamantly against it, yesterdays trade illustrates the reason why some people thought it was worth rooting against the team. I've been a fan for 30 years, and I thought it was in the best interest of the team, players, and fans for the skins to lose games last year. I'm glad they made the trade, but how much better would it have been to have had the pick to get RGIII and been able to keep the other picks?

Brother disco, I know you didn't call me out, or were trolling, nor was it my intent to suggest such. I did use your post as a relevant launching pad to address the matter in more general fashion. I was not "aiming" any of the indicting remarks at you, which is why I wrote in general terms and didn't use "you" in directing the comments. Just wanted YOU to know. :pfft:

[elkabong82]

We've yet to see whether or not we "won". The guy hasn't even played a snap yet in the NFL. RG3 will have to turn out to be a GOD to justify what we're giving up for him. This is an insanely big gamble no matter how you look at it.

You're overstating things. To merit 2 1sts and a 2nd, or 3 likely starters, he'll have to be a ProBowl player that typically gets us to the playoffs. It is a gamble, but not "insanely big" given RG3's skill set, potential, and intelligence.

[DiscoBob]

Brother disco, I know you didn't call me out, or were trolling, nor was it my intent to suggest such. I did use your post as a relevant launching pad to address the matter in more general fashion. I was not "aiming" any of the indicting remarks at you, which is why I wrote in general terms and didn't use "you" in directing the comments. Just wanted YOU to know. :pfft:

Right on, thankyou for clarifying....just trying to be a good citizen....